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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Quintal on November 24, 2006, at 9:38:57
In reply to Re: Best Meds for Panic? » FredPotter, posted by Meri-Tuuli on November 24, 2006, at 8:03:00
My ex-psychiatric nurse was indoctrinated into benzophobia by that very lady during his early psychopharmacology training. He coerced me and the pdoc into withdrawing abruptly from the clonazepam I was doing very well on. This has caused a lot of unnecessary suffering since few other drugs work at all for me and many make me feel worse.
I would feel less angry about this if he/they took my suffering more seriously. It seems as though it's one rule for benzos and another for SSRIs. If benzos cause apathy, indifference, lowered libido etc it is considered unacceptable and worthy of immediate withdrawal, yet many people are complaining of these side effects from SSRIs and they are viewed in a totally different light and you're often told to simply learn to live with these problems.
Is her name really unmentionable around here? I just posted a link from one of Ms. Ashton's 'advice' forums over on the withdrawal board :-O
Q
Posted by Tom Twilight on November 24, 2006, at 12:21:42
In reply to Re: Best Meds for Panic? » Meri-Tuuli, posted by Quintal on November 24, 2006, at 9:38:57
Thanks for the advice and support guys!
I have to agree Heather Ashton is Evil!
There I've come out and said it.Well maybe evil is a strong word but she's certainly very misguided!
Posted by Quintal on November 24, 2006, at 12:56:51
In reply to Re: Best Meds for Panic? » FredPotter, posted by Meri-Tuuli on November 24, 2006, at 8:03:00
>For some reason, they are more relaxed with elderly women who have been on them for years.
Yes, thank goodness. I'm grateful the rabid benzophobes didn't get to my grandmother in the last years of her life and try to deprive her of the temazepam she'd been taking since it first came on the market. If she'd been forced to go through the suffering of withdrawal I have I'm pretty sure it would have killed her premeturely.
Q
Posted by sregan on November 24, 2006, at 16:13:55
In reply to Best Meds for Panic?, posted by Tom Twilight on November 21, 2006, at 14:54:33
> Are there any none Benzo meds that can be effective for Panic disorder?
Buspar.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on November 24, 2006, at 16:24:17
In reply to Thanks Guys!-Benzo Phobia, posted by Tom Twilight on November 24, 2006, at 12:21:42
Shhh... Tom, you'll get an uncivil warning, although I fully agree with what you said. I honestly don't know how she can go around preaching the stuff she does. Grrr. I would like her to see how it feels to have a major panic attack and GAD constantly or something and see how she likes it. I don't think she could ever have experienced crippling anxiety. And even so, the stuff she preaches is rather strong if you know what I mean. She makes out benzos to be worse than heroin or something. Its very sad. And why do they listen to her??
Anyway its a sad state of affairs. And yes, I agree, its completely insane the way that UK GPs hand out SSRIs like candy. Last time I checked, it was no fun withdrawing from effexor/venlafaxine or cipramil or whatever. And where is the therapy? Here in Finland the pdoc I see (yes even through I'm just a plain old depressive, I see a pdoc here and I only had to wait four weeks for the inital appointment! And its free) suggested long ie 2/3 years pyschotherapy at 2 times a week. Funded by the healthcare system. Can you believe it????? I can't. Well we'll see what happens, but still...... its amazing the differences. I'm really babbling on now, but really the UK has alot to answer in terms of mental healthcare. Well it doesn't really have any, you merely see a GP who puts you on an SSRI and thats it. Plus its really hard to see a pdoc. I really really had to persuade my GP to get me to see a pdoc and then they refused me initially. After some pushing from my GP I eventually got an appointment. It was pretty useless anyway all they wanted to do was prescribe drugs. Anyway.
Something seriously needs to be done with mental healthcare in the UK. Its just a pity that we have enough on with our own internal battles and we can't form I dunno pressure groups or whatnot like those cancer sufferers do. We could really pressurize the government into doing something. Well I suppose alot of people still feel stigmatized by it and things.
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 24, 2006, at 18:19:09
In reply to Thanks Guys!-Benzo Phobia, posted by Tom Twilight on November 24, 2006, at 12:21:42
> Heather Ashton is Evil!
Please be sensitive to the feelings of others (such as those who like her site).
But please don't take this personally, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2006, at 19:28:08
In reply to Re: Best Meds for Panic? » Meri-Tuuli, posted by Quintal on November 24, 2006, at 12:56:51
Well I guess that fits me as its been over 30 years and am sixty but don't act old. Love Phillipa
Posted by Quintal on November 24, 2006, at 22:04:23
In reply to Re: Best Meds for Panic? » Quintal, posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2006, at 19:28:08
Well, you're still younger than my dad Philipa! I wouldn't recommend anyone come off benzos abruptly whatever their age unless they were completely fit and healthy. Even the benzophobic psychiatric nurse was alarmed by my blood pressure and heart rate. He said if I'd been a decade older I would have needed emergency treatment in hospital.
Q
Posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2006, at 22:28:39
In reply to Re: Best Meds for Panic? » Quintal, posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2006, at 19:28:08
Thank-you I have no intention of it but what is considered elderly in the uk noone will answer me on that one. Love Phillipa ps I do ride 7.5 miles up and down hills steep in my neighborhood almost daily.
Posted by FredPotter on November 25, 2006, at 3:17:43
In reply to Re: Best Meds for Panic? » Phillipa, posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2006, at 22:28:39
I wonder if the sexual side-effects of SSRIs will slow down the procreation of people with depression and eventually eliminate depression from the gene pool. A heartless evolutionary perspective Fred
Posted by Quintal on November 25, 2006, at 11:03:22
In reply to Re: Best Meds for Panic? » Phillipa, posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2006, at 22:28:39
>what is considered elderly in the uk noone will answer me on that one
Probably when you get your state pension and free bus pass, or when you need a zimmer frame to get around etc. I'd say 70's-80's is considered elderly at the moment, but it is changing since people are much more active past retirement these days. People seem less hung up over age in the UK, take it as a natural process and better appreciate the wisdom it brings.
>I do ride 7.5 miles up and down hills steep in my neighborhood almost daily.
Well, it sounds as if you're a lot fitter than this 24 year old guy Phillipa!!!!
Q
Posted by Quintal on November 25, 2006, at 11:08:32
In reply to Re: Best Meds for Panic?, posted by FredPotter on November 25, 2006, at 3:17:43
Well they might produce fewer offspring than chav baby factories popping them out every year to get more state benefit, but I remember my psychiatric nurse saying people do take 'drug holidays' from their SSRIs to conceive children.
Q
Posted by FredPotter on November 28, 2006, at 21:12:28
In reply to Re: Thanks Guys!-Benzo Phobia, posted by Meri-Tuuli on November 24, 2006, at 16:24:17
In New Zealand I could get to see a pdoc but the price is so high I can't afford it and insurance companies won't cover you. Ironically, psychiatrists here have completely lost touch with reality. The reality of what normal people can afford. My GP says, "go to 10 psychiatrists and you'll get 10 different diagnoses".
Fred
Posted by dreamboat_annie on November 28, 2006, at 21:20:27
In reply to Best Meds for Panic?, posted by Tom Twilight on November 21, 2006, at 14:54:33
I didn't read all the responses, but, years ago, I was put on Paxil for panic/anxiety/depression, and it was a godsend! I started weaning myself off after several years on it and didn't have a problem at all stopping. When I was weaning off, I would sometimes skip a day or two then take a small, half dose (never had any zaps or nauseau or anything when I skipped a dose). I wish now I had just stayed on a small maintenance dose, because when I went back on it a few years after weaning off because of anxiety brought on by a work-related situation, it did not work. But, when I was on it for about 7 years, it worked wonderfully. No panic, no anxiety, no depression and I also felt more confident in social and work situations where before I would feel nervous. It helped my confidence, that's for sure.
> Are there any none Benzo meds that can be effective for Panic disorder?
>
> Nardil helps but I hate the side effects!
> I've head that Parnate can work well, is this true?
Posted by Phillipa on November 28, 2006, at 21:32:35
In reply to Re: Thanks Guys!-Benzo Phobia, posted by FredPotter on November 28, 2006, at 21:12:28
Fred same here really. Love Phillipa
Posted by laima on November 28, 2006, at 21:35:08
In reply to Re: Best Meds for Panic? » FredPotter, posted by Meri-Tuuli on November 24, 2006, at 8:03:00
I'm very curious- IS she really infuencial, or fringey? I would have thought she was fringey and dogmatic per the "mainstream"--I think I know who you mean, with the jumbo website. I sort of thought most experts took a more skeptical tone and were not quick to take solid, cemented positions one way or another? (I mentioned no names here.)
> I dunno why really, but the UK is very very benzo-phobic. There's an influential Professor woman at a university there in the UK, who is hmmmmm, rather anti-benzo to put it mildly and has greatly influenced the prescribing patterns of UK GPs and pdocs. The site she runs has been posted here on babble in the past, but its slightly taboo because of the outcry it causes amongst babblers.
>
> In America, its fairly easy if you're presenting clinical symptoms to get a benzo. In the UK its virtually impossible, even short-term, particulary if you're young and have never tried them. Long-term, well forgit it completely. For some reason, they are more relaxed with elderly women who have been on them for years. Sigh. Its sad. Even the WHO classifies diazepram as an 'essential core' drug of any healthcare system.
>
> Ed_uk knows alot more about benzo use and the UK. I find it quite sad really and I want to say something uncivil about this woman who-can't-be mentioned-because-its-so-inflammitory but I can't obviously.
>
> Meri
Posted by Phillipa on November 28, 2006, at 21:35:08
In reply to Re: Best Meds for Panic? » Tom Twilight, posted by dreamboat_annie on November 28, 2006, at 21:20:27
Was this your first ad? As I took l0mg for two years with very low dose xanax and was fine. Went off and it never worked since either. But I did get the zaps. Slow wean even from l0mg. Love Phillipa
Posted by Quintal on November 28, 2006, at 21:50:41
In reply to Re: Best Meds for Panic? » Meri-Tuuli, posted by laima on November 28, 2006, at 21:35:08
Heather Ashton had a strong influence on shaping my ex psychiatric nurse's views on benzos. He attended one of her training courses for psychopharmacology in nursing back in 1985 and he was impressed by he knowledge and authority. I think this is generally true of many doctors and nurses trained at that time and since.
Q
Posted by laima on November 28, 2006, at 22:12:45
In reply to Re: Best Meds for Panic? » laima, posted by Quintal on November 28, 2006, at 21:50:41
Very interesting-> Heather Ashton had a strong influence on shaping my ex psychiatric nurse's views on benzos. He attended one of her training courses for psychopharmacology in nursing back in 1985 and he was impressed by he knowledge and authority. I think this is generally true of many doctors and nurses trained at that time and since.
>
> Q
Posted by shocker147 on December 1, 2006, at 9:55:31
In reply to Re: Best Meds for Panic?, posted by FredPotter on November 25, 2006, at 3:17:43
Hi Fred,
I'm 26 y/o male in Kansas and my depression and other mental illness is so terribly painful that I am not going to have children. I think it would be almost sinful to pass it along to my offspring.
> I wonder if the sexual side-effects of SSRIs will slow down the procreation of people with depression and eventually eliminate depression from the gene pool. A heartless evolutionary perspective Fred
Posted by dreamboat_annie on December 1, 2006, at 17:28:36
In reply to Re: Best Meds for Panic? » dreamboat_annie, posted by Phillipa on November 28, 2006, at 21:35:08
Hi Phillipa,
Sorry for not responding sooner. I hadn't seen your reply.
Yes, Paxil was my first AD. I took 25mg for a number of years. I just started reducing it myself by splitting the pill in half and then I would go a couple of days without taking it and, eventually, I just didn't get the script filled anymore. In retrospect, I think I did have some very minor "zaps" when I stopped, but nothing uncomfortable or frightening. I would just get this weird, tingling sensation in my head. I used to joke with a friend at work when it would happen and say "Oh, I think my head just fell asleep" (it felt similar to when my foot or arm falls asleep). So, all in all, Paxil was a fabulous AD. The start-up side effects weren't too pleasant, but, they were gone within about 3 weeks, and then it was pretty much smooth sailing. I, too, used Xanax from time to time while on Paxil, especially when I was PMSing. It was a great combination.
> Was this your first ad? As I took l0mg for two years with very low dose xanax and was fine. Went off and it never worked since either. But I did get the zaps. Slow wean even from l0mg. Love Phillipa
Posted by elanor roosevelt on December 1, 2006, at 21:25:31
In reply to Re: Best Meds for Panic? » Phillipa, posted by dreamboat_annie on December 1, 2006, at 17:28:36
i have run into some benzo-phobic doctors here and have been put on new meds without xanax to help me ease into my new toxic state
yikes
i live in nyc
there are 8 million people here and they are all in your way when you are having a bad day
new AD + no benzos = me screaming at people on the street
not a pretty sighthey Fred,
my maternal grandmother was a Potter, maybe we are of the same depressed lineage.
I procreated and have a delightful kid.
Posted by Phillipa on December 1, 2006, at 21:31:21
In reply to Re: Best Meds for Panic?, posted by elanor roosevelt on December 1, 2006, at 21:25:31
Elanor how did you pick your posting name? I picture this elderly lady from years ago. It's kind of funny you know. But being originally from CT I was in NYC all the time and can't imagine being anxious and depressed there. As NYC is anxiety provoking to me anyway. Love Phillipa
Posted by elanor roosevelt on December 3, 2006, at 13:05:51
In reply to Re: Best Meds for Panic? » elanor roosevelt, posted by Phillipa on December 1, 2006, at 21:31:21
> Elanor how did you pick your posting name?
I mis-spelled it. Should be Eleanor. But it's always been my conference call sign-in name. I am a great admirer of the woman.Living in NYC is great.
The strange thing about anxiety and depression is that you can suffer from them in quiet, calm and perfectly lovely situations. Here we have an excuse.
Posted by LlurpsieBlossom on December 3, 2006, at 13:39:45
In reply to Re: Best Meds for Panic?, posted by elanor roosevelt on December 3, 2006, at 13:05:51
Last time I went to NYC I took a half tablet of Klonopin on the way there, and ended up taking another whole tablet after an hour of walking around looking for Korean BarBeQue. (note, husband has really good memory for food taste, not food location). probably the highest dose I've ever had to take. .5mg + .25 mg = .75 mg.
Keep in mind that I've lived in various big cities since I was 18. (LA, Berlin, San Diego, Chicago, Houston). NYC is just in a different league. I wanted to run away and hide. I always felt like I was breaking the rules and people would start yelling at me and embarrass me horribly. Thank GOD I had someone to hold my hand and help me cross the streets :) Even after the benzo's kicked in, I still didn't feel safe, but the edge had worn off the panic.
-ll
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