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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 38. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ace on November 23, 2006, at 22:27:32
Hi all!
Uni has finished for another semester so I got some spare time now.
Anyone who is using nardil, please ask me any qstns about it, and I will do my best to help in anyway!
Hope you all have been doing well.
Ace
Posted by Caedmon on November 23, 2006, at 23:03:11
In reply to Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qstns, posted by ace on November 23, 2006, at 22:27:32
Have you ever taken Parnate, and if so, how would you compare the two?
Do you gain weight on Nardil? How much? What dose are you currently at? Do you get hypotension or daytime sedation with it?
Do you think Nardil helps social phobia when the predominant symptom is not "fear" in the sense of intense autonomic activation, but is more of a "freezing" sensation and inhibition. One that feeds into and out of severe depression. And also a great deal of avoidance. What is your take on that sort of thing?
Has Nardil stayed effective for you or has it ever lost its effects over time?
Do you feel it can be appropriately used for bipolar depressions?
A lot, I know. Thanks,
- Chris
Posted by ace on November 23, 2006, at 23:13:48
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qst, posted by Caedmon on November 23, 2006, at 23:03:11
> Have you ever taken Parnate, and if so, how would you compare the two?
Hi mate! Yes, I have taken Parnate for a 3 week trial. Parnate caused me a sever depression, whereas Nardil causes a healthy euphoric state in myself and so many users. Parnate has more NE activity than Nardil, causes more insomnia, and has less of a tendency to weight gain and sexual dysfunction. These are just generalizations but.>
> Do you gain weight on Nardil?Yes, I did. It caused huge chocolate cravings.
How much?around 10 kg. But as time has gone on, this s/effect has almost past completely.
What dose are you currently at?75mg/day.
Do you get hypotension or daytime sedation with it?
Only at the very beginning did i experience hypotension. I never do now. And yes, I had a lovely calm feeling off sedation when I started it...lovely naps! But, although still a little sedating, this has passed.
>
> Do you think Nardil helps social phobia when the predominant symptom is not "fear" in the sense of intense autonomic activation, but is more of a "freezing" sensation and inhibition. One that feeds into and out of severe depression. And also a great deal of avoidance. What is your take on that sort of thing?OK. Nardil helps depression and anxiety, period. Regardless of what causes what. For instance, before using Nardil, I was very socially phobic. I could not eat in public, felt extremely self conscious in certain clothes, and was shy around woman. After Nardil kicked in, I was so uninhibited and happy- I talked to ANY girl, I dressed in all sorts of crazy ways, and I could and still can eat in front of 10000000 people!
Nardil definately helps avoidance behaviours too. In essence, it helps ALL anxiety disorders (maybe not OCD so much) regardless of their nuances.>
> Has Nardil stayed effective for you or has it ever lost its effects over time?Well, it waxes and wanes over time. For the first 4 months- man, I was so happy, it was breathtaking. I stupidly went off it and tried another drug. When I went back on it, I cycled in and out of happiness to euphoria. But yes, many years down the track it still helps me so very much!
I plan soon to drop it for 6 months and reinstitute it.
>
> Do you feel it can be appropriately used for bipolar depressions?Yes I do. Although one has to watch the tendency towards the manic state.
>
> A lot, I know. Thanks,
>
> - ChrisNo worries Chris!!!!!
Ace
Posted by Quintal on November 24, 2006, at 10:29:47
In reply to Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qstns, posted by ace on November 23, 2006, at 22:27:32
Hi ace,
I've tried Marplan and Parnate for social anxiety and bipolarish mood problems and am thinking of possibly trying Nardil soon if nothing else works. Two things that put me off: those rumours of loss of efficiency since the manufacturer changed the formulation of the tablets, and sexual dysfunction. Any advice?
Q
Posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2006, at 11:42:17
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qst » Caedmon, posted by ace on November 23, 2006, at 23:13:48
Ace why are you stopping it for six months? Love Phillipa
Posted by saturn on November 24, 2006, at 13:25:31
In reply to Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qstns, posted by ace on November 23, 2006, at 22:27:32
Hi Ace,Can you compare Nardil to any EMSAM, stimulants or SSRI's--(or even a benzo in terms of SP)?
How about your heart rate--I can't remember but vaguely recall someone mentioning that one of the MAOI's decreases heart rate (and blood pressure I presume) instead of increasing it.
Thanks...Peace...Saturn
Posted by blueberry on November 24, 2006, at 18:34:11
In reply to Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qstns, posted by ace on November 23, 2006, at 22:27:32
Hi Ace,
Since nardil works so good for you, I wonder why more people aren't on it? Or why more doctors don't prescribe it? Is it because of the diet restrictions? Side effects? Or is it because like the other antidepressants mileage varies, to where with any one of them you'll get a substantial group of people that do fair to ok and only a few that do great? What do you think?
Posted by ace on November 24, 2006, at 20:39:09
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qstns » ace, posted by Quintal on November 24, 2006, at 10:29:47
> Hi ace,
>
> I've tried Marplan and Parnate for social anxiety and bipolarish mood problems and am thinking of possibly trying Nardil soon if nothing else works. Two things that put me off: those rumours of loss of efficiency since the manufacturer changed the formulation of the tablets, and sexual dysfunction. Any advice?
>
> Q
Hi Friend!
OK, I have investigated the (supposed) loss of efficacy due to supposed formulaic changes. I have rung the TGA here in Australia and corresponded with The FDA.There is no difference. It still contains the active ingredients. Certain incipients have changed, however I, for the life of me, cannot see how these could effect the efficacy of the drug. The new Nardil=The old Nardil.
Sexual dysfunction. Statistically, and in my own personal experience, this poses a formidable s/effect, which can last some time.
I remember first starting the drug: I use to try hours on end to acheive orgasm to no avail. It WAS frustrating, but, the wonderful benefits Nardil provided for me far outweighed a sex life!
This s/effect, a long with 99% of the others, has passed. I can orgasm easily whenever I want now.
Please remember that their are certain agents you can use to combat sexual dysfunction, i.e. Periactin, Bethenachol etc
I can only reccomend Nardil as being a phenomenal treatment for an array of psychiatric complaints.
I wish you the best of luck!
Ace
Posted by ace on November 24, 2006, at 20:42:35
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qst » Caedmon » ace, posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2006, at 11:42:17
> Ace why are you stopping it for six months? Love Phillipa
To regain the euphoria. Don't get me wrong, Nardil makes me feel very good now. But a health euphoria is even better!
Hope you are doing really well Phillipa, it's wonderful what you have done with regards to Michael.
God Bless!
Ace
Posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2006, at 21:12:22
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qst » Phillipa, posted by ace on November 24, 2006, at 20:42:35
Ace thanks and how is school? Love Phillipa
Posted by ace on November 24, 2006, at 21:27:50
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qstns » ace, posted by saturn on November 24, 2006, at 13:25:31
>
> Hi Ace,
>
> Can you compare Nardil to any EMSAM, stimulants or SSRI's--(or even a benzo in terms of SP)?
>
> How about your heart rate--I can't remember but vaguely recall someone mentioning that one of the MAOI's decreases heart rate (and blood pressure I presume) instead of increasing it.
>
> Thanks...Peace...Saturn
>
>Not a problem. I am not really familiar with Ensam, but am going to research this agent very soon.
Nardil and stimulants? Parnate has a more stimulant type effect on users than Nardil. Psychostimulants have been shown to help in certain cases of SP, but no where near to the extent as the MAOI's or Benzo's. SSRI's, from what I have personally read and experienced, are usually quite weak for SP, and most affective disorders. However in the right patient they can help.
Xanax, in particular, is a phenomenal treatment for SP. Mixed with an MAOI, i can forsee, a person losing 99% of SP symptomatology, or even the total abolishment of the pathology.
Thus, and MAOI + benzo would be by main choice for SP.
When MAOI's are used with contra-indicated agents they can produce CNS effects of increased heart rate and vasoconstriction that result in hypertension. Hypertensive crises can sometimes result in stroke or cardiac arrhthmia and can be lethal. In such a case the administration of an antihypertensive is recommended.
However, many people experience postural hypotension on the MAOI's, in the absence of any contibuting factors (apart from the MAOI ofcourse!)
Also hypertension can result in just the same way.
I hope this has helped, please feel free to ask more.
Ace
Posted by ace on November 24, 2006, at 21:34:37
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qstns » ace, posted by blueberry on November 24, 2006, at 18:34:11
> Hi Ace,
>
> Since nardil works so good for you, I wonder why more people aren't on it? Or why more doctors don't prescribe it?OK. Doctors are not generally taught about MAOI's these days. The institutions in which they are taught are largely fianced in many cases by the SSRI manafacturers. They are cautioned that MAOI's must be last line and are 'very dangerous'...this is simply not the case when used responsibly. Doctors are just human...they are influence by their surroundings as much as anyone else. SSRI's are all the rage to the new school, but the older psychiatrists know better.
Is it because of the diet restrictions?The dietary restrictioncts are very small. They havent been updated in years. I have been on Nardil for ages...I eat anything almost. They pose hardly a problem.
Side effects?
OK...they do INDEED, on the whole, produce more s/effects than the SSRI's. But hey, they eventually pass in so so many users, and in the meantime, their are agents we can use to combat them.
Or is it because like the other antidepressants mileage varies, to where with any one of them you'll get a substantial group of people that do fair to ok and only a few that do great? What do you think?
I disagree. MAOI's are extremely effective in most patients. SSRI's are effective in a few. I have read thousands, literally thousands off anecdotal and clinical data on their use.
They are the most powerful antidepressants in the psychiatrists arsenal.
Hope this helps and take good care:)
Ace
Posted by ace on November 24, 2006, at 21:38:14
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qst » Phillipa » ace, posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2006, at 21:12:22
> Ace thanks and how is school? Love Phillipa
really great. I am actually going to specialise as a neurologist AND psychiatrist now. I just love it!
I just did another course in neuroanatomy this term...the brain hold such fascination to me.
Examing a dead brain is so so rewarding. Most people think it's morbid!In about 5 years I start psychiatry....i have many credits from medical science that I use in medicine.
How things been with you:)
Andrew
Posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2006, at 21:43:32
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qstns » saturn, posted by ace on November 24, 2006, at 21:27:50
Ace what about if your thyroid is hasimotos and has recently gone from hypo to hyper and six weeks before another blood test would nardil mess it up more? I have a lot of autoimmune things. Love Phillipa
Posted by Quintal on November 24, 2006, at 21:49:52
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qstns » blueberry, posted by ace on November 24, 2006, at 21:34:37
Thanks for the info ace.
>OK...they do INDEED, on the whole, produce more s/effects than the SSRI's
I was pleasantly surprised to find that Parnate and Marplan caused far fewer side effects than any other type of antidepressant. They had no really troublesome unwanted effects for me, though I can see why the stimulant effect and racing heart beat of high dose Parnate may be unwelcome in elderly patients. I've heard the side effect profile of Nardil is harsher in the sexual department though, which is what has made me wary of it.
Q
Posted by aeon on November 25, 2006, at 5:42:00
In reply to Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qstns, posted by ace on November 23, 2006, at 22:27:32
> Do you gain weight on Nardil?
Yes, I did. It caused huge chocolate cravings.
How much chocolate do you consume? I'm interested because you seem to have a euphoria that is not average... indeed if it were I think the drug would be pulled off the market by now?
I recently read an amine analysis of chocolate and it seems to contain around 2mgs/kg of serotonin, 3mgs/kg Dopamine, 2 mgs kg PEA, and trace amounts of anandamide.
Considering all these things would be allowed into your brain because of the Nardil (I'm not sure if this is the case exactly but just conjecturing) and you were/are eating alot of chocolate (which most people tend to avoid on MAOI's - illfounded reasons of course) then maybe some of these chemicals are making their way in?
I am interested as I am on Parnate and am thinking of trying to make it more nice, not just merely energising, so am going to try to eat lotsa dark dark chocolate to see what happens.
Thanks for your input!
aeon
Posted by blueberry on November 25, 2006, at 6:03:33
In reply to Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qstns, posted by ace on November 23, 2006, at 22:27:32
Thankyou very much ace for your thoughtful answers to my questions. I appreciate that. You know, the most important thing to keep going is "hope", and I believe you are handing it out like candy. That's great.
I went to rememdyfind.com to see how nardil rates among realtime users. I have also looked at most of the other meds there. Among all the meds that had enough contributors to make a valid average score, I could not find anything that rated higher than nardil for effectiveness and longterm use. Modafinil was very close.
With all the ssris and snris there are enough contributors saying how they got more depressed on their meds that it makes me kind of wary. But for nardil, there was only one person who said he got worse.
Posted by naughtypuppy on November 25, 2006, at 10:36:22
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qstns » ace, posted by blueberry on November 25, 2006, at 6:03:33
> Thankyou very much ace for your thoughtful answers to my questions. I appreciate that. You know, the most important thing to keep going is "hope", and I believe you are handing it out like candy. That's great.
>
> I went to rememdyfind.com to see how nardil rates among realtime users. I have also looked at most of the other meds there. Among all the meds that had enough contributors to make a valid average score, I could not find anything that rated higher than nardil for effectiveness and longterm use. Modafinil was very close.
>
> With all the ssris and snris there are enough contributors saying how they got more depressed on their meds that it makes me kind of wary. But for nardil, there was only one person who said he got worse.Make that two. After 4 months of really no improvement, I started to go off the deep end. A couple of days after quiting Nardil, I improved quite a bit. It is a very effective AD, but I guess it's not for everybody. Parnate was working for me, but I had a bad allergic reaction to it. I do agree with you though that ssri's are the hind end of AD's. One of the reasons that they are pushed so hard is that they weren't discovered by accident like most of the others. This makes it appear that doctors aren't just guessing when they write out a prescription.
Posted by Caedmon on November 25, 2006, at 14:20:55
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qst » Phillipa, posted by ace on November 24, 2006, at 20:42:35
> > Ace why are you stopping it for six months? Love Phillipa
>
> To regain the euphoria. Don't get me wrong, Nardil makes me feel very good now. But a health euphoria is even better!>I am not sure this is how I would personally approach drug therapy. But, best of luck,
- Chris
Posted by Declan on November 25, 2006, at 14:28:59
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qst, posted by aeon on November 25, 2006, at 5:42:00
My nutritional doctor recommended that eat dark chocolate (with ginger) when I was on deprenyl.
Posted by ed_uk on November 25, 2006, at 15:22:31
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qst » ace, posted by Caedmon on November 25, 2006, at 14:20:55
>stopping it for six months
You've stopped it before Ace, it was a disaster, remember? You will never be able to achieve a state of permanent euphoria Ace, it's not possible. If you feel good, you should be satisfied with your treatment. Do not expect to feel fantastic all the time!
Take care
Ed
Posted by ace on November 26, 2006, at 21:24:42
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qstns ?blueberry ?ace, posted by Quintal on November 24, 2006, at 21:49:52
> Thanks for the info ace
A pleasure!
>
> >OK...they do INDEED, on the whole, produce more s/effects than the SSRI's
>
> I was pleasantly surprised to find that Parnate and Marplan caused far fewer side effects than any other type of antidepressant. They had no really troublesome unwanted effects for me, though I can see why the stimulant effect and racing heart beat of high dose Parnate may be unwelcome in elderly patients. I've heard the side effect profile of Nardil is harsher in the sexual department though, which is what has made me wary of it.
>
> QYeah, but please remember we can use agents to combat those sexual s/effects. It's great you had little s/effects on the other MAOI's. This might predict very few on nardil.
Take great care!
Ace:)
Posted by ace on November 26, 2006, at 21:30:35
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qst, posted by aeon on November 25, 2006, at 5:42:00
> > Do you gain weight on Nardil?
>
> Yes, I did. It caused huge chocolate cravings.
>
> How much chocolate do you consume? I'm interested because you seem to have a euphoria that is not average... indeed if it were I think the drug would be pulled off the market by now?I consumed a lot! I cannot quantify it other than saying a lot. Euphoria is quite common to Nardil. But the euphoria isn't pathological. It is pleasent and motivating, but doesn't induce deleterious behaviour. Although euphoria is commonly listed as a s/effect....
> I recently read an amine analysis of chocolate and it seems to contain around 2mgs/kg of serotonin, 3mgs/kg Dopamine, 2 mgs kg PEA, and trace amounts of anandamide.
>
> Considering all these things would be allowed into your brain because of the Nardil (I'm not sure if this is the case exactly but just conjecturing) and you were/are eating alot of chocolate (which most people tend to avoid on MAOI's - illfounded reasons of course) then maybe some of these chemicals are making their way in?I doubt it very much. The caffeine in the chocolate can diffuse through the Blood Brain Barrier, but with regars to augmenting the neurotransmitters you speak off, I find it highly unlikely.
> I am interested as I am on Parnate and am thinking of trying to make it more nice, not just merely energising, so am going to try to eat lotsa dark dark chocolate to see what happens.I really doubt much will happen, but give it a go! I would look at augmenting if you want a more robust effect.
> Thanks for your input!
> aeonNo problems friend!
Ace
Posted by ace on November 26, 2006, at 21:35:23
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qstns ?ace, posted by blueberry on November 25, 2006, at 6:03:33
> Thankyou very much ace for your thoughtful answers to my questions. I appreciate that.
Absolutely my pleasure!
You know, the most important thing to keep going is "hope", and I believe you are handing it out like candy. That's great.Thanks heaps! I think hope and faith, although scientifically quantifiable, are necessary ingridients to success! So, whenever you start a new drug, as best as you can, have faith!
I truly believe deep down that it helped my wobderful response to nardil. From day one I had this faith in that drug! I don't know why, but i did!>
> I went to rememdyfind.com to see how nardil rates among realtime users. I have also looked at most of the other meds there. Among all the meds that had enough contributors to make a valid average score, I could not find anything that rated higher than nardil for effectiveness and longterm use. Modafinil was very close.Its funny, I am obsessive, and I have collected thousands of anecdotes on nardil + other drugs. NEVER have i seen so many positive respnses to a drug than nardil!
> With all the ssris and snris there are enough contributors saying how they got more depressed on their meds that it makes me kind of wary. But for nardil, there was only one person who said he got worse.But, at first Nardil made some of my sx worse. Actually if that happens in the early days it can predict a good response!
SSRI's and the like...hmmm...I'm not a big fan!
Take good care friend!
Ace
Posted by Quintal on November 26, 2006, at 22:54:37
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qstns » Quintal, posted by ace on November 26, 2006, at 21:24:42
>Yeah, but please remember we can use agents to combat those sexual s/effects
What can be used safely with Nardil? I've heard of cyproheptadine being used with SSRIs, but that's probably dangerous with MAOIs? Wellbutrin or cabergoline?
Q
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