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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by blueberry on November 12, 2006, at 10:23:03
I had a major crash yesterday that landed me in the emergency room after police in my house and an ambulance ride following a 911 call.
Post ECT relapse is worse than anything.
Looking back, I would say the 2 weeks following the last ECT treatment could be characterized as a mixed state...a blend of remission and a talkative type mania, with slight sprinklings of very short minor light depressions at random times. It was mostly the talkative remission/mania stuff mix.
Then on Friday afternoon I got hit with a totally unexpected fairly deep depression which felt real bad and scared me. It lifted almost completely by evening and was replaced with a hyper overly talkative state.
Saturday I woke very depressed and its intensitiy came on like a freight train. It ended up being the worst I've ever experienced. I was in a state of suicide, no-escape, total despair, hysterical crying, and thoughts of taking a long swim in the freezing ocean.
Clearly it seems to me there is more here than just a relapse. The evidence is all over the place that I am dealing with bipolar. That would explain why so many dozens of meds have not been good for me. The very first psychiatrist I ever had spent 9 hours diagnosing me and when finally done he wanted lithium. I refused his diagnosis of bipolar and lithium, and went elsewhere to be treated as unipolar. Perhaps the biggest mistake of my life? Could be.
Posted by bassman on November 12, 2006, at 10:45:05
In reply to Post ECT Relapse Crash Suicidally Severe, posted by blueberry on November 12, 2006, at 10:23:03
I'm so sorry...after reading your positive post on ECT where your doc thought at most you'd need an occasional ECT-that was so wonderful. Now to doubt that must be really difficult. If it is bipolar (or not), I hope you get away from the Black Dog quickly.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on November 12, 2006, at 10:47:01
In reply to Post ECT Relapse Crash Suicidally Severe, posted by blueberry on November 12, 2006, at 10:23:03
I'm really really sorry to hear this, Blueberry, we were all hoping the ECT would go well. I mean, thats not to say that this current lapse could just be a very temporary spike downwards...perhaps it'll get better? I hope so anyway. I can't really say anything re: the bipolar thing, sorry I'm not more helpful. But do you think things would have been so different if you'd accepted the bipolar diagnosis all those years ago? I don't know. Have you tried some mood stabilizers?
Perhaps things will level out from now on, you said the ECT makes medications works better? So thats a start.
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by linkadge on November 12, 2006, at 11:03:20
In reply to Re: Post ECT Relapse Crash Suicidally Severe, posted by Meri-Tuuli on November 12, 2006, at 10:47:01
Seems to me that your worst problems happend after you stopped prozac the first time. I've seen it happen more than one time. I've had the same problem. I was doing ok on SSRI's, I stopped them, and then they never worked again upon restarting, not to mention the induction of chronic recurring suicidiality, and strange mood swings that never existed before, no not spending spree mania, just racing mind days of insomnia despite the desire to sleep etc.
The difference between you and me is that I don't have any trust psychiatry anymore. I did the bipolar thing, took all the meds still left me feeling like crap.
I plan on killing myself when my parrents pass away.Sorry about changing the topic, this is about you.
Linkadge
Posted by blueberry on November 12, 2006, at 11:05:11
In reply to Re: Post ECT Relapse Crash Suicidally Severe, posted by bassman on November 12, 2006, at 10:45:05
> I'm so sorry...after reading your positive post on ECT where your doc thought at most you'd need an occasional ECT-that was so wonderful. Now to doubt that must be really difficult. If it is bipolar (or not), I hope you get away from the Black Dog quickly.
Canny how you referred to the Black Dog...the administering doctor's name is Blackman.
And you are correct, to now see the challenges of managing ECT is really difficult. The doctor in the emergency room who spent about 20 minutes with me said it was painfully obvious I was stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Posted by blueberry on November 12, 2006, at 11:11:13
In reply to Re: Post ECT Relapse Crash Suicidally Severe, posted by Meri-Tuuli on November 12, 2006, at 10:47:01
> I'm really really sorry to hear this, Blueberry, we were all hoping the ECT would go well. I mean, thats not to say that this current lapse could just be a very temporary spike downwards...perhaps it'll get better? I hope so anyway. I can't really say anything re: the bipolar thing, sorry I'm not more helpful. But do you think things would have been so different if you'd accepted the bipolar diagnosis all those years ago? I don't know. Have you tried some mood stabilizers?
>
> Perhaps things will level out from now on, you said the ECT makes medications works better? So thats a start.
>
> Kind regards
>
> MeriYou have asked some very good questions. If it was a temporary spike downward, it was severe enough to end a life. Today is a little better so far, no tears so far, but fairly deep depression. The day is only half over. My gut instincts and all the evidence do indeed point to bipolar. I have tried lamictal and it worsened me. There were a couple others years ago that I don't remember. I have not tried the king though...lithium.
Posted by Phillipa on November 12, 2006, at 11:16:45
In reply to Re: Post ECT Relapse Crash Suicidally Severe, posted by linkadge on November 12, 2006, at 11:03:20
Link no don't talk like that please. You're very young and I'm sure you're brain will heal. Love Phillipa
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on November 12, 2006, at 11:32:36
In reply to Re: Post ECT Relapse Crash Suicidally Severe » Meri-Tuuli, posted by blueberry on November 12, 2006, at 11:11:13
I sometimes think that the temporal aspect of depression is often overlooked (well, I guess its the nature of the disease!). Its logical to assume that as this was a very sudden episode, that it'll pass with the same speed that it came on with.
I also tend to think that once you've had a few depressive episodes, the moment your mood dips you automatically assume you're going to go to the depths again. Well, normal people have off days too, so its normal for us to have off days as well.... although, this is just with me, and obviously I would describe what happened to you yesterday as alot more than an 'off day'. But you get the jist.... I just think that sometimes you (or 'one' I should say) ends up being depressed about being depressed, and you kinda re-enact your old depressive behaviours just because you expect them to happen and expect yourself to be depressed.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that don't let what happened to you yesterday influence your mood now. Not that you do...its just something I've noticed I do alot. Anwyay.
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by chiron on November 12, 2006, at 13:16:29
In reply to Post ECT Relapse Crash Suicidally Severe, posted by blueberry on November 12, 2006, at 10:23:03
I am so sorry, your ECT story was inspirational to me. I had 6 treatments in June, which left me feeling great - I had never even come close to feeling that good. Then it slowly went down. My dr. increased Cymbalta, which I realized later was increasing my depression & irritability.
I am very, very down & am going to go in on Tuesday to get shocked again.
Do you think you will get maintenance ECT, or are you going to just try drugs?
Posted by Klavot on November 12, 2006, at 14:31:55
In reply to Re: Post ECT Relapse Crash Suicidally Severe, posted by linkadge on November 12, 2006, at 11:03:20
> I plan on killing myself when my parents pass away.
>No Linkadge, please don't do that. Try to steer clear of "dark thoughts".
Posted by blueberry on November 12, 2006, at 16:03:51
In reply to Re: Post ECT Relapse Crash Suicidally Severe, posted by chiron on November 12, 2006, at 13:16:29
> I am so sorry, your ECT story was inspirational to me. I had 6 treatments in June, which left me feeling great - I had never even come close to feeling that good. Then it slowly went down. My dr. increased Cymbalta, which I realized later was increasing my depression & irritability.
> I am very, very down & am going to go in on Tuesday to get shocked again.
> Do you think you will get maintenance ECT, or are you going to just try drugs?
>I would love to do ECT again if they can get a better handle on it. I will be talking to my pdoc about it this week. I felt just great but had devastating memory. There are ways to fine-tune it. Followup is a given I think. If I do stick with drugs, I don't know which ones. Reuptake inhibitors or maois do not agree with me and often make me more depressed. It seems the drugs I do best with are ones that stimulate neurotransmitters, not ones that shore them up. Maybe that's why I did well with ECT since it stimulates neurotransmitters.
Posted by ronaldo on November 12, 2006, at 16:15:13
In reply to Re: Post ECT Relapse Crash Suicidally Severe, posted by linkadge on November 12, 2006, at 11:03:20
>
> The difference between you and me is that I don't have any trust psychiatry anymore. I did the bipolar thing, took all the meds still left me feeling like crap.
>
>
> I plan on killing myself when my parrents pass away.
>
> Sorry about changing the topic, this is about you.
>
> LinkadgeHi Link
That would be a pity if you did do it. Won't your parents leave you anything in their wills? Have you exhausted every possibility in conventional and alternative medicine? Wouldn't your parents want you to carry on looking for a cure or at least some respite? You see when you kill yourself you not only kill who you are but you also kill all those little bits of other people who have contributed over the years to making you what you are. You owe it to these people to survive and prosper, not just materially but also spiritually. If you kill yourself when your parents pass away your spirit will not be ready. If there is an after life you may not enjoy it to the full. Stick around Link, don't throw the towel in too early. Stay till the final bell. Remember this, I can't remember who originally wrote it but it goes like this:
Ask not for whom the bell tolls
It tolls for me and you.
IOW your death will diminish people you have never met, people like me who have only met you via this message board, people who have written books and articles that you may have read, people in the medical profession who have tried to help you. You have the right to make a decision for yourself to go ahead and kill yourself but do you have the right to kill off all the good that other people have poured into what is you?
Remember also this:
No man is an island....
Try reading something uplifting. Your despair will pass. Go out for a long walk. You are not good company for yourself right now.
Chin up and ciao from
...ronaldo
Posted by ronaldo on November 12, 2006, at 16:17:58
In reply to Re: Post ECT Relapse Crash Suicidally Severe, posted by ronaldo on November 12, 2006, at 16:15:13
Posted by Phillipa on November 12, 2006, at 19:06:09
In reply to Re: Post ECT Relapse Crash Suicidally Severe » chiron, posted by blueberry on November 12, 2006, at 16:03:51
Blueberry are you on leave from work? I don't see how you could do all this . It's stressful to say the least. I'd take lots of rest. Love Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on November 12, 2006, at 19:31:31
In reply to Re: Post ECT Relapse Crash Suicidally Severe » chiron, posted by blueberry on November 12, 2006, at 16:03:51
>Maybe that's why I did well with ECT since it >stimulates neurotransmitters.
I hate to say this, but if you've relapsed this soon how can you say that ECT was a good thing?
Linkadge
Posted by ronaldo on November 13, 2006, at 9:06:25
In reply to Re: Post ECT Relapse Crash Suicidally Severe, posted by linkadge on November 12, 2006, at 19:31:31
For Whom the Bell Tolls
by John Donne
(1572 - 1631)No man is an island,
Entire of itself.
Each is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manner of thine own
Or of thine friend's were.
Each man's death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee.
Posted by bassman on November 13, 2006, at 9:15:43
In reply to Re: Post ECT Relapse Crash Suicidally Severe » linkadge, posted by ronaldo on November 13, 2006, at 9:06:25
I can think of some clods, that if washed away by the sea, would not diminish me. :>}
I think the point was to remind us that suicide or any death, really, can never be an independent act...it always makes many lives poorer.
Here's the way I look at suicide: what if we are here for a reason, and what if we don't accomplish or fulfill that "reason", we have to come back and try again? Do I really want to experience the painful moments I've experienced AGAIN? No thanks. They were enough fun the first time...
Posted by blueberry on November 13, 2006, at 20:36:02
In reply to Re: Post ECT Relapse Crash Suicidally Severe » blueberry, posted by Phillipa on November 12, 2006, at 19:06:09
> Blueberry are you on leave from work? I don't see how you could do all this . It's stressful to say the least. I'd take lots of rest. Love Phillipa
Yes Phillipa, I was on leave from work. I took the Family Medical Leave Act for ECT and was out of work for almost 6 weeks. While I thought I had 9 treatments, I am told I had 14. That shows how bad my memory was.
In my experience someone could actually do ECT in the morning and be at work in the afternoon and be just fine. Once the short-acting barbituates wear off, which is super fast, you're good to go.
But if the doctors don't get it just right and monitor you like a hawk each and every treatment day, then disaster things like what happened with me are in store.
What happened with me was so bad that there was no way I could return to my previous job in the quality of work or function that I did. I am starting a new job next week. If what happened to me had happened to a doctor or a lawyer, they would no longer be able to practice.
Posted by Squiggles on November 14, 2006, at 12:13:58
In reply to Re: Post ECT Relapse Crash Suicidally Severe » Phillipa, posted by blueberry on November 13, 2006, at 20:36:02
Sorry to read this; i hope the lithium works.
Best wishes for better days.
Squiggles
Posted by chiron on November 14, 2006, at 13:19:56
In reply to Re: Post ECT Relapse Crash Suicidally Severe » Phillipa, posted by blueberry on November 13, 2006, at 20:36:02
I actually have come to work a couple of times after ECT, although they are against it. I just had one yesterday...and I'll have another one on Thursday. I am going crazy/down. We'll see how I feel after Thursday. I am barely hanging on...watching the time go by, contemplating if I still have to exist after this life.
Posted by Squiggles on November 14, 2006, at 13:38:44
In reply to Re: Post ECT Relapse Crash Suicidally Severe, posted by chiron on November 14, 2006, at 13:19:56
> I actually have come to work a couple of times after ECT, although they are against it.
?
I just had one yesterday...and I'll have another one on Thursday. I am going crazy/down. We'll see how I feel after Thursday. I am barely hanging on...watching the time go by, contemplating if I still have to exist after this life.I hope this is anxiety and not the effects
of ECT you're talking about.At least you won't have to put up with
medication side effects with ECT.Squiggles
Posted by Karen44 on November 15, 2006, at 17:05:52
In reply to Re: Post ECT Relapse Crash Suicidally Severe » Phillipa, posted by blueberry on November 13, 2006, at 20:36:02
> > Blueberry are you on leave from work? I don't see how you could do all this . It's stressful to say the least. I'd take lots of rest. Love Phillipa
>
> Yes Phillipa, I was on leave from work. I took the Family Medical Leave Act for ECT and was out of work for almost 6 weeks. While I thought I had 9 treatments, I am told I had 14. That shows how bad my memory was.
>
> In my experience someone could actually do ECT in the morning and be at work in the afternoon and be just fine. Once the short-acting barbituates wear off, which is super fast, you're good to go.
>
> But if the doctors don't get it just right and monitor you like a hawk each and every treatment day, then disaster things like what happened with me are in store.
>
> What happened with me was so bad that there was no way I could return to my previous job in the quality of work or function that I did. I am starting a new job next week. If what happened to me had happened to a doctor or a lawyer, they would no longer be able to practice.
>
>Gosh Blueberry; this is why I refused ECT last year when I went into the psy unit briefly at U of C. I am a psychologist who works now as a forensic psychologist, and so I go to court on cases quite frequently. I knew I might not be able to do my job if I agreed to the ECT. I am somewhat better now with med's and at least can function at work.
Karen44
This is the end of the thread.
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