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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Phillipa on October 22, 2006, at 22:18:31
Seriously I've wanted to ask this for a long time. But being a people pleaser didn't want to. But from reading this board for two years now. I know one person that has gotten well. One that has almost gotten rid of all her symtoms with a lot of hard work. So how come people keep adding meds to their list of the meds they are taking . Making it harder to know what meds help if they do or make them worse? I mean this. As I saw the same thing in the hospital. Granted it's been over 8 years but it can't have changed as my own pdoc asked me why I ever want to work on psych again as people in her words are not right (wanted to say the word she used but figured it was uncivil) there. I was shocked to hear her say this but it makes me wonder are we harming ourselves more with meds for depression and anxiety and thinking we deserve things that are grand and glorious without working to get them? I'm not trying to make anyone mad or angry . Just a question I've had for a long time. I'd love to put to rest and not think so much about meds you know? Love Phillipa
Posted by willyee on October 23, 2006, at 2:28:30
In reply to Wanted To Ask This For A Long Time, posted by Phillipa on October 22, 2006, at 22:18:31
Because some people continue to implicate the wrong impression that people on these drugs are "expecting golden pills."
First we are recomended to the drugs,as more likly a person does not come from the blue asking for say zolofot,and then when we find ourselves in deep we are in a sense turned on for using them.
I totaly resisent anyone appying i expect this or that.I work hard and always have at staying afloat,people who have seen me know i lift wieghts,thats not easy,i have finished a course in trade school for certifications,i manage my bills,and most of the times i do this with the meds not working,so where am i expecting this bliss from?I continue for many reasons,first i admit i am now unlike earlier in my use literaly scared to come off,second i dont believe id be any better off,and third i still have some hope.
What you dont hear a lot is the fact that perhaps we use these drugs because this is what we are told/led to believe is the right thing to do.See a professional,which we all have at one point or another.
What is failed to be mentioned is how many people go there entire lives,in and out of rehab for abusing acohlol and other "harder" drugs when all along they were masking,or self medicating because they suffered.
Perhaps we are trying to avoid this road by doing what we believe,or once believed was the right,and safe way to go.
Now of course,thanks to the internet flourishing in only this last decade,we are introduced to information we never knew,and we can see the dangers,but again it comes down to if you believe its a chemical illness of ANY sory,and if you believe that,then you understand like all illnesses we just want treatment.If you do not accept that unlike your entire body,the brain,one of the most complex parts of your body can also fall ill,but is somehow the one part that is immune,then obviously you will see us,or ill see myself as a drug seeking person.
Well so be it to those,it doesent help me to worry about them one minute,i cant fake feeling better.I dont expect applause,but like many i could have gotten into drugs on the street if i wanted to,instead i read,i incorporate nutrients,herbs etc,and i search for a drug to assist me.
I guess im lucky because i have had remission periods,however lots of people havent since it emerged,and especialy in there case they are not looking for anything magic from these pills,wow i can just go on and on,its just a shame how some people see us,i just this morning got my mother to lower an eyebrow in shock since she has been looking at the computer more so latly to see pictures a brother sends.Normaly she wouldent bother,but she feels more comfortable now thatll she understand what she sees,and i showed her various sites,and read stuff,and she defintly was impacted.
This unfortantly phillpa is a war i dont think well make much ground in during our life time,but with the internet moving as fast as it is,this upcomming generation will likly tolerate less B.S.We had the PDR only as of the point most of us prob took our first drug.Now the pdr is childs play in comparision to the abundant amount of information out there.
Sorry to kinda whirl around,im not good at getting my point out in short words.
Posted by lymom3 on October 23, 2006, at 8:40:51
In reply to Re: Wanted To Ask This For A Long Time, posted by willyee on October 23, 2006, at 2:28:30
No pill is going to fix anyone. Some people have issues that through counseling and lifestyle changes they can correct. Sitting back and taking pills without counseling or other behavior modification is the American lazy answer to everything. The instant gratification; give me a pill to feel better.
Counseling and lifestyle changes cannot fix every problem though. To expect that you can talk your way through everything or just pull yourself up by your bootstraps is equally improbable. If it was as easy as thinking yourself happy we would have all done it already.
So I suspect that somewhere in the middle is the answer. There is no one answer that fits everyone.
Posted by Phillipa on October 23, 2006, at 10:57:18
In reply to Re: Wanted To Ask This For A Long Time, posted by lymom3 on October 23, 2006, at 8:40:51
When will they be able to diagnose a mental illness like they do physical without looking at us like we have sprouted two heads? I can't even get an endo appointment with thyroid systems as the GP probably said I take antidepressant's . It's so sad. We are still stigmatized. Love Phillipa
Posted by lymom3 on October 23, 2006, at 12:22:34
In reply to Re: Wanted To Ask This For A Long Time » lymom3, posted by Phillipa on October 23, 2006, at 10:57:18
What specifically are you looking to get done that they aren't looking at?
> When will they be able to diagnose a mental illness like they do physical without looking at us like we have sprouted two heads? I can't even get an endo appointment with thyroid systems as the GP probably said I take antidepressant's . It's so sad. We are still stigmatized. Love Phillipa
Posted by madeline on October 23, 2006, at 17:09:05
In reply to Wanted To Ask This For A Long Time, posted by Phillipa on October 22, 2006, at 22:18:31
I can hear the frustration in your post. I'm sorry you are struggling with this.
Okay, so you've been posting here for 2 years and only one or two people have gotten "well".
It's enough to make anyone question whether or not drugs are a good thing.
However, a few things come to mind:
1. Both here and in the "psych" ward as you put it is a very biased sample. If people were cured, would they post on a mental health support site, or be an inpatient? No. In both cases you are looking at people that are sick, not the general population.
2. Can depression/anxiety be cured, or does it just remit like cancer? The answer, like cancer is "no". Can it be treated? Yes. Does the treatment always work? No. Would you tell a cancer patient to stop?
3. As far as combinations of drug and not knowing which ones work, I think you are leaving out an important aspect of pharmacology. That a lot of the time drugs work better in combination, and a single drug alone may not have much of an effect. Examples? Norvasc, Augmentin, Aspirin & Plavix, SSRIs & Provigil, Percocet etc... Often it is not just one drug having an effect, so it is impossible to single it out.
4. As far as grand and glorious thinking is concerned - well, none of this sounds very grand and glorious to me. As another poster indicated, this is war and we are all in the trenches.
Hope you feel better soon. At least the sun came out a little today, but brrrr... it was cold. Ah winter in the south.
maddie
Posted by Phillipa on October 23, 2006, at 20:00:06
In reply to Re: Wanted To Ask This For A Long Time » Phillipa, posted by madeline on October 23, 2006, at 17:09:05
I am wondering why we keep taking what someone tells us to and if it doesn't work it's our fault so that when you need a consult the referring doctor says take your time this is a psych patient. I'm trying to see an endo for the first time since I got depressed and really anxious cause mine is the autoimmune type and my first hospitalization was from my thyroid being too high now it's too low and I want an endo to assess me after ll years I don't think thats too much to ask. Since if the GP had figured it out I'd never have been hospitalized. Love Phillipa
Posted by madeline on October 23, 2006, at 20:14:03
In reply to Re: Wanted To Ask This For A Long Time, posted by Phillipa on October 23, 2006, at 20:00:06
Let me see if I understand what's going on.
You are trying to see an endocrinologist about your thyroid and your referring doc told him that you were under a doctor's care for mental illness so the endocrinologist should just "take his time".
If that is correct, then you may be due some protection here. HIPAA provides that. Even if you sign the HIPAA release, a medical professional can only give information that is deemed "medically necessary" for your treatment.
It is a toss up whether your past medical history (as it relates to mental health) is relevant to your treatment at the emdocrinologist.
How did you find out what your GP said?
maddie
Posted by ClearSkies on October 23, 2006, at 20:43:44
In reply to Re: Wanted To Ask This For A Long Time, posted by lymom3 on October 23, 2006, at 8:40:51
> No pill is going to fix anyone. Some people have issues that through counseling and lifestyle changes they can correct. Sitting back and taking pills without counseling or other behavior modification is the American lazy answer to everything. The instant gratification; give me a pill to feel better.
>Please don't jump to conclusions about others, or post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civilFollow-ups regarding these issues should be directed to Admin and should of course be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over all decisions.
Thank you,
ClearSkies
Posted by Phillipa on October 23, 2006, at 21:42:53
In reply to Re: Wanted To Ask This For A Long Time, posted by lymom3 on October 23, 2006, at 8:40:51
Maddie I have no proof just saw it before hippa in the hospital. Sorry to keep bringing up the hospital but I learned so much about how health care workers thought of anyone with mental health problems. Is a patient came into the ER with some we were called down from the floor to eveluate and clean out the Er so to speak. And when short staffed if someone was asked to come help us for the night they didn't want to come and were very uncooperative. Used say to me how can you work on a floor like this? Like what I always said. I rather do what I did that play with poop.
Posted by lymom3 on October 23, 2006, at 23:18:57
In reply to Please be civil » lymom3, posted by ClearSkies on October 23, 2006, at 20:43:44
No offense meant and I apologize if it was taken that way.
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 24, 2006, at 2:16:43
In reply to Re: Please be civil, posted by lymom3 on October 23, 2006, at 23:18:57
Posted by madeline on October 24, 2006, at 8:02:30
In reply to Re: Wanted To Ask This For A Long Time, posted by Phillipa on October 23, 2006, at 21:42:53
Phillipa,
I've logged many many hours in the hospital myself because of my research. My experience has been that the hospital staff/physicians etc... pretty much talk about most patients in the way you describe - whether or not they are mentally ill.
Even oncologists and pediatricians (which just floored me, but whatever) have a few choice words describing their patients.
I'm not defending their actions, but I do understand them. They're people. They may be very educated and highly trained, but they get frustrated too and they act out sometimes.
Most physicians have only done a rotation in psychiatry and are ill-equipped to handle it, this causes a lot of stress for them I think. Most physicians genuinely want to do their job and help.
But then again, how many physicians and staff do you know that are lining up to treat patients in the burn unit?
A physician's reaction usually isn't a reflection about the patient, but rather themselves.
I have found after years of observation of the patient-physician relationship that total disclosure with the physician is the best approach. I would tell your endocrinologist that you have anxiety and the he may, in fact, have to take extra time with you. Tell him that you would appreciate that time very much.
However, I am still a little concerned about your referring GP. How did you find out about what he said to the endocrinologist?
Posted by elanor roosevelt on October 24, 2006, at 20:39:14
In reply to Re: Wanted To Ask This For A Long Time » Phillipa, posted by madeline on October 24, 2006, at 8:02:30
1. I don't think any of us started down this road thinking it would be so complex.
2. i was a raging alcoholic for 18 years and I self-medicated that way. i still suffered depressions but was able to trigger happy little manic times. it's a lot of work drinking that much.
3. when i went on meds at first i was told that the meds would "stablize" my brain chemistry and then i could stop taking them. i have stopped a number of times and enjoyed 2 or 3 months at a time when i had that lovely bounce-back. i don't even experience that anymore.
4 i am not looking to be a rah rah cheerleader type. but i do expect to find meds that allow me to have some kind of faith that my life will be okay. okay is not so much to ask. okay and with my entire personality intact.
5. we are here because we are treatment resistant. i have a sister who has been on the same ad for 20 years. Can you imagine that?
6. i wish the meds would work and stay working. before i came to this site i had never "met" anyone else who is treatment resistant and the info i get here has been helpful.
7. hang in there one and all
Posted by Phillipa on October 24, 2006, at 21:58:44
In reply to Re: Wanted To Ask This For A Long Time, posted by elanor roosevelt on October 24, 2006, at 20:39:14
Thanks Elenor and my sister has been on an ad for the same amount of time and calls it her happy pill. Love Phillipa
Posted by fires on October 25, 2006, at 0:43:45
In reply to Re: Wanted To Ask This For A Long Time, posted by lymom3 on October 23, 2006, at 8:40:51
> Sitting back and taking pills without counseling or other behavior modification is the American lazy answer to everything. The instant gratification; give me a pill to feel better.<
It works for many. My retired MD, who was not a psychiatrist, but taught psychopharmacology at a Univ. of Calif. med school, talked about "cognitive therapy in a pill". Lots of patients' cognitive distortions disappear when they are properly medicated.
Many diabetics are insulin dependent, just like some with Dep are med dependent. The medical model does work for many. In fact it works so well, that psychologists made a major push in Calif., not too many years ago, to try to get the privilege to prescribe meds.
Posted by fires on October 25, 2006, at 1:04:37
In reply to Wanted To Ask This For A Long Time, posted by Phillipa on October 22, 2006, at 22:18:31
If I were an MD here's what I'd use as a guide to treat patients who fail to improve:
1) Am I treating the right illness? (correct dx)
2) Am I using the right meds?
3) Am I using the right meds, and at the right strength?
4) Am I using the right meds, at the right strength, and for the correct amount of time? (not giving up too soon)
5)Is the patient complying with my treatments?(taking the meds, etc...)
6) See #1 above then > Have I considered other contributing conditions that must be addressed?
7) Am I ordering the right labs for the other possible conditions?
8) Am I interpreting the lab results correctly?
9) Am I ordering labs to be repeated to avoid false negatives?
10) Did I use other labs to confirm results?
11) Have I INSISTED that the patient not use: alcohol, caffeine, tobacco and street drugs? (and is the patient complying?)
12) Have I consulted other MDs about the patient?
13) Have I tried off-label meds?
14) If the answers to all the above are yes, I think I need to consider demonic possession, and consult an exorcist.
Posted by bassman on October 25, 2006, at 6:05:25
In reply to Re: Wanted To Ask This For A Long Time, posted by lymom3 on October 23, 2006, at 8:40:51
I wish this were true. Please supply the name of a doc who has pills and who will "give me a pill to feel better".:>} Many of the AD's I've taken made a Bad Situation worse, at least initially. In my experience, it was other way around from what you describe: three years of therapy did nothing; 5 mg Paxil suddenly pulled me from the Pit of Hell of panic disorder.
I take offense to you saying us Americans are "lazy"; we are demonstrably "fat" and "violent", too.:>} Please don't make us so one-dimensional. :>}
Posted by bimini on October 25, 2006, at 14:26:42
In reply to Wanted To Ask This For A Long Time, posted by Phillipa on October 22, 2006, at 22:18:31
I am new to medication, didn't take vitamins before either.
Told my docs that I prefer to set a limit of two meds. That I prefer to try alternatives, am willing to do whatever I need in order to avoid more medication, want to take responsibility in my recovery. As long it isn't harmful, no additional - less might be more for me.At this I need to take my dog for a run to avoid the need to add blood pressure meds :)
bimini
Posted by Crazy Horse on October 25, 2006, at 16:43:38
In reply to Wanted To Ask This For A Long Time, posted by Phillipa on October 22, 2006, at 22:18:31
At this time with my new found "wonder drug" (Lyrica) i consider myself well..for 3 months now. And yes, i know Lyrica does not work for everyone, but for some reason, it sure does work well for me. It took me 25 long years to find a drug that finally works for me! I guess the big question is, "How long will it work?" But, i don't worry about that, instead i just enjoy one day at a time.
-Monte
Posted by Phillipa on October 25, 2006, at 18:41:42
In reply to Re: Wanted To Ask This For A Long Time » Phillipa, posted by Crazy Horse on October 25, 2006, at 16:43:38
So happy you have and yes you should enjoy each day to it's fullest. Love Phillipa
Posted by Karen44 on October 27, 2006, at 17:15:03
In reply to Wanted To Ask This For A Long Time, posted by Phillipa on October 22, 2006, at 22:18:31
> Seriously I've wanted to ask this for a long time. But being a people pleaser didn't want to. But from reading this board for two years now. I know one person that has gotten well. One that has almost gotten rid of all her symtoms with a lot of hard work. So how come people keep adding meds to their list of the meds they are taking . Making it harder to know what meds help if they do or make them worse? I mean this. As I saw the same thing in the hospital. Granted it's been over 8 years but it can't have changed as my own pdoc asked me why I ever want to work on psych again as people in her words are not right (wanted to say the word she used but figured it was uncivil) there. I was shocked to hear her say this but it makes me wonder are we harming ourselves more with meds for depression and anxiety and thinking we deserve things that are grand and glorious without working to get them? I'm not trying to make anyone mad or angry . Just a question I've had for a long time. I'd love to put to rest and not think so much about meds you know? Love Phillipa
This has always been my point, Phillipa. Med's help considerably but are not the entire answer. I was well for over 10 years without meds, and only after developing all sorts of physical problems including needing neurosurgery did I start to get depressed. I still work in psychology and am taking medication for depression as you know, and I anticipate the there will be the day I don't need antidepressant medication anymore once I can come to terms with a few things.
Karen44
This is the end of the thread.
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