![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 6 to 30 of 30. Go back in thread:
Posted by pahole on September 5, 2006, at 8:55:17
In reply to Re: brain zaps while on celexa » linkadge, posted by SLS on September 5, 2006, at 6:48:57
> > I had brain zaps while on celexa, but they only happened during the night. I would wake up abruptly usually from a nightmare, and as I looked from left to right, I would get brain zaps that I could hear.
>
>
> Do you recall the dosage?
>
> What time of day did you take the medication?
>
>
> - ScottHi Scott
Thanks for your answer.I take my meds at night, between 8-9 pm, and truth be told, I get zaps only at night just about the time of taking my med. I am taking the same dosage of 15 mg for about 6 months now.I also get very vivid dreams, not sure if I'd classify them as nightmares, but ...close. I never heard anyone talking about zaps while ON Celexa. That is so scary for me now...Love, pahole
Posted by pahole on September 5, 2006, at 8:59:04
In reply to Re: brain zaps while on celexa » pahole, posted by Phillipa on September 4, 2006, at 19:29:41
> Only when decreasing an ad? Could it be additional anxiety? Are you experiencing anything in your life that is stressing you out badly. Other than that I'm clueless. What does your pdoc say? Love Phillipa
Hi Phillipa
You can say I am going through hard patch right now. Having said that, I still feel that I am in control of my anxiety which at times is very bad. My doc never heard of any brain zaps???
Thanks for supposrt..love, pahole
Posted by SLS on September 5, 2006, at 9:55:34
In reply to Re: brain zaps while on celexa, posted by pahole on September 5, 2006, at 8:55:17
> Thanks for your answer.I take my meds at night, between 8-9 pm, and truth be told, I get zaps only at night just about the time of taking my med. I am taking the same dosage of 15 mg for about 6 months now.I also get very vivid dreams, not sure if I'd classify them as nightmares, but ...close. I never heard anyone talking about zaps while ON Celexa. That is so scary for me now...Love, pahole
There have been other people who have reported experiencing the brain zaps continuously while taking SRI drugs like Celexa. I was wondering about the timing because the brain zaps are more often a symptom of withdrawal. If they are occuring before dosing rather than after, perhaps it is time to increase the dose. If not, you can try another SRI drug like Effexor or move to something different like Lyrica, which is currently being investigated for GAD.
- Scott
Posted by linkadge on September 5, 2006, at 12:22:36
In reply to Re: brain zaps while on celexa » linkadge, posted by SLS on September 5, 2006, at 6:48:57
I was taking 10 or 20mg at night, can't recall. The brain zaps would always occur at the time of a nightmare. I figure the nightmare was indicitive of some sort of cholinergic/noradrenergic battle. I would wake up in a panic with the brain zaps. It was funny though, without the nightmare I would feel very depressed the next day. It was only on the days that I had the nightmare that I felt good the next day.
Linkadge
Posted by pahole on September 5, 2006, at 12:37:39
In reply to Re: brain zaps while on celexa, posted by linkadge on September 5, 2006, at 12:22:36
> I was taking 10 or 20mg at night, can't recall. The brain zaps would always occur at the time of a nightmare. I figure the nightmare was indicitive of some sort of cholinergic/noradrenergic battle. I would wake up in a panic with the brain zaps. It was funny though, without the nightmare I would feel very depressed the next day. It was only on the days that I had the nightmare that I felt good the next day.
>
> LinkadgeHm, isn't that something? I have not seen any connection between my vivid dreams,zaps, and the next day depression...but it may be the answer though. Yes, the zap always leads to panic, I feel hot flashing through my head, spine, pulse racing, trying to flee fast...panic indicative as always. How would you describe brain zaps that you felt? When did they stop? I am a 45 female and my biological clock started ticking some time ago, I suppose doc felt it may have contributed to my GAD.
Pahole
Posted by linkadge on September 5, 2006, at 14:39:04
In reply to Re: brain zaps while on celexa, posted by pahole on September 5, 2006, at 12:37:39
It basically felt like a little sap going throug my brain. Not really painfull. I could hear the zap in my head though, like a very short duration buzz.
They didn't last forever. Ususally every night on the medication and for a few months after discontinuing.
Linkadge
Posted by pahole on September 5, 2006, at 15:07:18
In reply to Re: brain zaps while on celexa, posted by linkadge on September 5, 2006, at 14:39:04
why did you stop taking celexa?
I would try something else, but I had so hard time adjusting to celexa that I am not looking forward to changing it. The beginning was like hell, vomiting, stomack cramps, loss of appetite, panic attacs hourly...I was a wrack, even pdoc suggested taking me off. But I needed help and needed it fast as I could not function at work or at home. What do you suggest/
Posted by linkadge on September 5, 2006, at 18:17:45
In reply to Re: brain zaps while on celexa, posted by pahole on September 5, 2006, at 15:07:18
I came off of it eventually because it was causing apathy, though that side effect tool a while to emerge.
What other drugs have you tried?
Was it used for GAD, or for depression?
Linkadge
Posted by pahole on September 6, 2006, at 7:37:35
In reply to Re: brain zaps while on celexa, posted by linkadge on September 5, 2006, at 18:17:45
I use it for GAD and panic attacks. So far it does good job, and yes...there are some side effects for sure. I don't struggle with apathy, but with the sex drive. And there are the zaps, minot dizziness , floating sensation on ocassion. I have never tried any other medication. Pahole
Posted by linkadge on September 6, 2006, at 12:10:15
In reply to Re: brain zaps while on celexa, posted by pahole on September 6, 2006, at 7:37:35
Each medication will have its own set of side effects. Of the newer antidepressants the two that are really free of sexual side effects are Wellbutrin and Remeron. Wellbutrin is generally no good for anxiety. Remeron may be good for anxiety but often causes weight gain.
The brain zaps are generally thought to be harmless. They may go away or reduce too. There are some other meds you can take to help sexual side effects.
The other SSRI's still have potential for these side effects, and may have more. You could try a different SSRI, but it may not be any better.
Linkadge
Posted by johnnyj on September 6, 2006, at 13:17:17
In reply to Re: brain zaps while on celexa, posted by linkadge on September 6, 2006, at 12:10:15
Remeron is NOT free of sexual side effects. It was the worst in that regard for me. I am not alone in this either.
Posted by linkadge on September 6, 2006, at 13:32:00
In reply to Remeron not sexual SE free. » linkadge, posted by johnnyj on September 6, 2006, at 13:17:17
Sorry. I shouldn't have said that Remeron was sexual side effect free. Some patients say that it has fewer sexual side effects than SSRI's. I certainly found it less sexually numbing than the SSRI's, but it still did have some side effects in this regard.
Linkadge
Posted by johnnyj on September 6, 2006, at 19:01:32
In reply to Re: Remeron not sexual SE free. » johnnyj, posted by linkadge on September 6, 2006, at 13:32:00
I hope I didn't sound too bad, if so, sorry.
I felt emotionally raped by remeron. That is why I am so afraid of trying anything else. But, my ruminations and obessive thinking is not getting better. I was ok for two months after remeron but then stopped sleeping and rumnating. Contemplating my next move right now.
johnnyj
Posted by Janelle on September 6, 2006, at 23:00:53
In reply to brain zaps while on celexa, posted by pahole on September 4, 2006, at 16:46:15
I was scrolling around on here and saw your Topic, which I'd already responded to, but something else just came into my mind.
It's not precisely on the Celexa brain zaps you've been experiencing but it relates to your having what I'd consider UNEXPECTED, UNUSUAL side effects from the Celexa (the kind a person might experience while going OFF the med; I had brain zaps going OFF a different SSRI a-d)
Anyway, I had been on 300 mg of Seroquel for sleeping (started at a much lower dose but had to keep increasing it to have it continue to work), then suddenly after about a year or so on this dosage, it started making me sick!
I'd wake up in the middle of the night, very dizzy, dazed and nauseous, and a few times as I stumbled to the bathroom (to pee, not barf! It never came to that), I kept bumping against walls and got a major bruise from it at one point. And when mornings came, OMG, I was so queasy I could not eat for a few hours. The mere thought of food was awful.
Naturally, my pdoc told me to decrease the Seroquel right away, and try to get back to 200 mg, which I have been able to do with success.
But both my pdoc and a very knowledgeable (about meds) counselor were both startled to hear that all of a sudden while ON a med, I was having side effects that if they were to happen would occur while starting and going up on the med and reaching too high a dose (which would mean backing down a notch to a working dose).
Posted by linkadge on September 7, 2006, at 9:28:55
In reply to Re: Remeron not sexual SE free. » linkadge, posted by johnnyj on September 6, 2006, at 19:01:32
What else have you tried?
Linkadge
Posted by pahole on September 7, 2006, at 10:08:49
In reply to Something possibly relevant to your Celexa zaps » pahole, posted by Janelle on September 6, 2006, at 23:00:53
It may be relevant. I've had similar episodes since I started taking Celexa. I'd wake up with severe nausia, dizziness, even vertigo. During days i would feel similar, floating sensations, loss of appetite, dizziness. Everybody is saying to stick to the treatment because the panic attacs had gotten way fewer and with so much less intensity. I feel I can handle them. I fear trying anything new. My family suffered so much for almost a year with my refusal to go on SSRI, and being unable to control different phobias ( shopping was the WORST event ever!), panic attacs while driving, or meeting new people. My job required me )Director, R&D) to meet people, travel...and I could not think of more reasons not to. For 6 months I have not entered a store by myself, or stay in longer than 5 minutes. I didn't like my hairdreser either (One time I actually left during the appointment with my hair half done!). Well, as unbelievable as it sounds, Celexa helped me. I wish these side effects would go away. My sex drive is quite numb now.
pahole
Posted by johnnyj on September 7, 2006, at 14:24:13
In reply to Re: Remeron not sexual SE free. » johnnyj, posted by linkadge on September 7, 2006, at 9:28:55
The only other AD has been nortrypline at 50mg. I couldn't tolerate any higher. It is really not that great for ocd issues and I belive I just recently recieved an accurate dx.
It all started with a panic attack, but I do see how obsessive I have been for a long time. A good pdoc just caught the ocd issue about a month ago. I am on 300 mg lithium (for an ad augmentor) and lunesta. I think the lunesta has made things worse.
My wife doesn't want me on an ad since the remeron made me an *ss. But, what do I do I can't take the not sleeping anymore? I am trying to work out and nothing is helping. The front of my head is so activated I can't think straight or sleep. I get about 4 to 5 hours on lunesta and then I am wide awake.
The pdoc said luvox and klonopin. But, in the past I was on tranzene and it eventually depressed me so I fear a benzo. I heard luvox will probably cause insomnia and that won't help. I don't know what to do. I just pray that I will sleep again and wake up better. Sounds dumb but I do.
johnnyj
Posted by linkadge on September 7, 2006, at 16:10:59
In reply to Something possibly relevant to your Celexa zaps » pahole, posted by Janelle on September 6, 2006, at 23:00:53
The side effects could go away or lessen. A lower dose too, may provide syptom relief with fewer side effects.
There are some things that can help sexual side effects. An antihistamine called periactin (cyproheptadine) is an OTC product in Canada. I don't know of its availability elsewhere. It is usefull in helping sexual side effects.
Ocasionally, buspar can help sexual side effects too.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on September 7, 2006, at 16:17:12
In reply to Re: Remeron not sexual SE free. » linkadge, posted by johnnyj on September 7, 2006, at 14:24:13
>It all started with a panic attack, but I do >see how obsessive I have been for a long time. >A good pdoc just caught the ocd issue about a >month ago. I am on 300 mg lithium (for an ad >augmentor) and lunesta. I think the lunesta has >made things worse.
Remeron can make a lot of people irritable, and mean. The alpha-2 antagonist properites of the drug can cause irritability. There is a term "REM Rage" which has been thrown around to adress the propensitiy of remeron to cause irritability. Remeron can worsen OCD issues in some people too.
>My wife doesn't want me on an ad since the >remeron made me an *ss. But, what do I do I >can't take the not sleeping anymore?
I would personally recomend a combination of an SSRI, and a sedating TCA like amitryptaline or Doxapin. The SSRI would help OCD while the TCA could help sleep.
Another option is a SSRI Trazodone combination. Trazodone is a newer antidepressant with some SSRI properties. It is sedating and is good at counteracting SSRI induced insomnia.
Ask your doctor what he things about say Luvox + Trazodone.
Hope things get better. Take it easy.
Linkadge
Posted by pahole on September 7, 2006, at 16:39:27
In reply to Re: Something possibly relevant to your Celexa zaps, posted by linkadge on September 7, 2006, at 16:10:59
I see that you know pharmacology. I will check the antihistamine, since I live in canada. How do you su=ggest I take it and what would be the mode of action, given that I will stil be taking Celexa. I alos take Advair250-500mmg amnd Losec, daily.
Posted by linkadge on September 7, 2006, at 18:17:38
In reply to Re: Something possibly relevant to your Celexa zaps, posted by linkadge on September 7, 2006, at 16:10:59
Sorry, I should clarify. Periactin, cyproheptadine, is an OCT product, but it may be hard to find in pharmacies since I think some have stopped stocking it.
However, you can buy it online. This is not illegal since it is not a prescription product in Canada.
It comes in 4mg tablets, but I'd recomend taking just 1mg, a few hours before. It may cause a bit of sedation. Some people notice that it doesn't relieve sexual side effects immediatly, but it takes a few days. So, you may want to try taking 1mg per day (around the time of..) for a few days to see if that helps.
Its worth a shot, it helped me in that regard, and its not too expensive.
Linkadge
Posted by johnnyj on September 7, 2006, at 21:19:56
In reply to Re: Remeron not sexual SE free., posted by linkadge on September 7, 2006, at 16:17:12
Wow, thank you.
The doctor did mention trazadone.
"The alpha-2 antagonist properites of the drug can cause irritability"
Can you explain that a little more? alpha-2 antagonist? Is this a seratonin receptor? Actually, nortryptline caused me to get angrier quicker too? I don't know why? Remeron was very bad. It caused so much sponge brain and at 7.5 mg made me more depressed. I was less depressed and felt better on 3.75 which is such a small dose. I sometimes wish I would have stayed on it.
I am really, really hoping that luvox, if I go for it, will be sedating instead of activating for me. I guess the only way is to try it.
"Remeron can worsen OCD issues in some people too."
OH MY GOD, I have never heard that but I always felt that I would get "stuck" on something and couldn't get it out of my mind. I would replay things over and over and find myself saying the same word over and over in my mind. I never did it to that extent before. Very scary.
You are very kind linkadge. What is your dx and meds if you do not mind me asking. I hope you are well.
Best regards,
johnnyj
Posted by linkadge on September 8, 2006, at 7:21:26
In reply to Re: Remeron not sexual SE free., posted by johnnyj on September 7, 2006, at 21:19:56
>Can you explain that a little more? alpha-2 >antagonist? Is this a seratonin receptor?
Remeron works by blocking a certain receptor called the norpinephrine alpha-2 autoreceptor.
These receptors work by putting the breaks on norepinephrine release. So, by blocking this receptor, the brain releases more norepinephrine.Nortryptaline has a noradrenergic mechanism too, though slightly different. It prevents the reuptake of norepinehprine allowing more of it to stay in the synapse.
Agents like these two (which work on norepinephrine) can cause irritability. Norepinephrine is a fight-or-flight hormone which can heighten agression, and edgyness.
Neither of these agents has had testing for application to OCD. The SSRI's however have. Roughtly speaking, norepinephrine is an excitory neurotransmitter wherase serotonin is inhibitory. There have been case reports of Remeron worsening OCD possably due to its ability to increase frontal cortex dopaminergic output.
>I am really, really hoping that luvox, if I go >for it, will be sedating instead of activating >for me. I guess the only way is to try it.Some people find luvox sedating while other find it slightly activating. It should not be nearly as activating as say Nortryptaline. Start with a low dose to see how it may affect you. Trazodone would be a good augmenting agent should insomnia occur.
Celexa or Lexapro too, may be slightly more tollerable than luvox. They are slightly newer SSRI's.
>OH MY GOD, I have never heard that but I always >felt that I would get "stuck" on something and >couldn't get it out of my mind. I would replay >things over and over and find myself saying the >same word over and over in my mind. I never did >it to that extent before. Very scary.For me, Remeron made the same song play over and over again in my head.
>You are very kind linkadge. What is your dx and >meds if you do not mind me asking. I hope you >are well.
My diagnosis was major depression, but I have taken several meds in the past but am currently on no meds. I may need to return to meds somewhere down the road.
Linkadge
Posted by johnnyj on September 8, 2006, at 22:48:13
In reply to Re: Remeron not sexual SE free., posted by linkadge on September 8, 2006, at 7:21:26
I have learned more in the last month than I knew since my problems first started 15 years ago. thank you for helping with that.
The main thing that I feel is that the front of my head seems activated and will not slow down to sleep. Ya know, that nodding a person gets when they start to feel sleepy? The lack of good sleep has really screwed with my thought processes. Ironically the only thing that helps is some weight lifing. Aerobic stuff seems to make things worse but my ocd stuff makes me feel something is wrong with my heart. I know nothing is but at least know I am able to look at things knowing I have ocd issues.
I have a lot of work to do even when I start new meds. Hopefully a combination of CBT and meds will get me some peace.
I see you tried remeron too. My pdoc says he has only one patient on it and that is because he has to. He thinks it is a very bad med. I would have to agree at this point. I will start low on the luvox since 3.75-mg of remeron is where I actually felt the best. Do you think that is because the alpha-2 autoreceptor was not affected at that low dose? 7.5 mg made me very depressed.
cheers
johnnyj
Posted by linkadge on September 9, 2006, at 15:24:06
In reply to Re: Remeron not sexual SE free. » linkadge, posted by johnnyj on September 8, 2006, at 22:48:13
Medications can affect people differently at different doses. I've heard a few people say that less than 7.5 was more helpful than more.
Linkadge
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.