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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by parasolips on July 28, 2006, at 18:15:55
hello,
i've only been on lithium for a few days...starting at 600mg lith carbonate er [300 2x/day] and supposed to move up to 900 soon...but since i've started taking it, i've noticed that, in addition to having nausea, confusion, sleepiness, and just generally feeling "weird", i think i have been having mild hallucinations. Not full blown, more like illusions i suppose....things look strange, i look at my computer screen and i see shadows moving around in it, i feel like the world seems...pixelated, and it's like i can see swirling gasses in the spaces between objects. also, i get vivid closed eye visuals. i've experienced both the illusions and the closed eye thing before without meds, but it seems to now have been triggered by starting lithium.
i'm also on lexapro and klomopin, and have been taking those for a while.
also, this "weird" feeling is kind-of triggering me toward self-injury...and i cut myself last night for the first time in a while and i'm not even sure why.
i guess my main question is just whether anyone has heard of hallucinations/illusions being caused by lithium? maybe it's just me being crazy or having too much in my system? should i be concerned?
thanks!
Posted by JahL on July 28, 2006, at 19:49:35
In reply to can lithium CAUSE hallucinations?, posted by parasolips on July 28, 2006, at 18:15:55
> also, this "weird" feeling is kind-of triggering me toward self-injury...and i cut myself last night for the first time in a while and i'm not even sure why.
>
> i guess my main question is just whether anyone has heard of hallucinations/illusions being caused by lithium? maybe it's just me being crazy or having too much in my system? should i be concerned?Hi.
I can only speak from personal experience, but I too had a very unpleasant time on Lithium. It started with the 'weird' sensation you speak of, progressed into deep paranoia and ended with mild psychosis (I was being stalked by a 6ft swan. Seriously).
I have never, ever experienced psychosis before or since and my pdoc was at a loss as to how to explain this apparently unusual reaction. His only guess was that the other meds I was taking at the time (interestingly, an SRI and Klonopin) somehow raised Lithium blood serum levels beyond the safe limit. Personally, I just think Lithium didn't agree with me - I am prone to atypical responses to medications. After about a week I began to have trouble walking and so stopped immediately. Thankfully things rapidly returned to 'normal'.
You don't need me to tell you that the self-injury is a real concern. I hope that you can get the appropriate help quickly.
Cheers,
J.
Posted by linkadge on July 28, 2006, at 20:55:33
In reply to Re: can lithium CAUSE hallucinations? » parasolips, posted by JahL on July 28, 2006, at 19:49:35
Its not the lithium, its the combination of lithium and the SSRI.
I know what you are talking about.
Lithium is a potentiating agent. It can potentiate the actions of psychedellic compounds like LSD.
When I took lithium and celexa, I had really trippy things happen. Objects that I knew were non human (the automatic railway barracades), all of a sudden took on human like form, they looked like soldiers weilding swords. Car faces looked very lifelike and human, each one had a personality. Some things seemed otherworldly and bizzare.
Anyhow, I think its the combination, since neither agent alone gave me problems, but the combination did. I figured it was some trippy lsd like effect from too much serotoninergic acitivity in certain brain regions.
Linakdge
Posted by JahL on July 28, 2006, at 21:43:03
In reply to Re: can lithium CAUSE hallucinations?, posted by linkadge on July 28, 2006, at 20:55:33
> Its not the lithium, its the combination of lithium and the SSRI.
Ahhh...so my pdoc was on the right track after all. I suppose therefore it's relevant that I was on a 'heroic' dose of Clomipramine (very potent SRI) at the time.
> Lithium is a potentiating agent. It can potentiate the actions of psychedellic compounds like LSD.You shouldn't be telling people like me that; you're giving me ideas... :-)
> Car faces looked very lifelike and human, each one had a personality.
Haha, ditto! They would stare at me with their headlights and I would watch the cars appear to 'breathe'.
Thanks for clearing that up Link.J.
Posted by parasolips on July 28, 2006, at 22:06:55
In reply to Re: can lithium CAUSE hallucinations?, posted by linkadge on July 28, 2006, at 20:55:33
very interesting...
Linakdge, did you stop the combination or did the problem clear up?i just talked to my doctor and he said maybe i started too fast so i'm dropping down to one 300mg pill a day now...i have to say though, the "psychedelic" reaction was well, interesting...i just had dinner and i felt kinda like i was in some weird slowed-down mania where i was hyper aware of everything and having odd flights of ideas, but i was talking more slowly rather than pressured. i'm having a hell of a time with words though, which is pretty annoying since a lot of my life is writing.
i have problems with human faces as well...with the features looking like holograms projected on eggs, or with people looking grotesquely deformed when they aren't.
Posted by linkadge on July 29, 2006, at 1:06:03
In reply to Re: can lithium CAUSE hallucinations?, posted by JahL on July 28, 2006, at 21:43:03
Interesting to hear you had a similar experience.
The car thing was pretty intense. It got to the point where I could actually 'sense' the emotion of the car just by looking at the face.
I looked at an old run down Volvo, and it looked so sad and run down. It reminded me of how my father is beginning to look.
It was a slight loss of ballance between reality and symbolism.
Motion too was all f'd up. Things started to move in strange otherworldy ways. Cars seemed to be floating through space. Cars moving looked "alive", infact anything that moved (automatic doors at grocery store, robot welding machines at work) ,looked 'alive', like it was an actual living entity.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on July 29, 2006, at 1:16:43
In reply to Re: can lithium CAUSE hallucinations?, posted by parasolips on July 28, 2006, at 22:06:55
"i have problems with human faces as well...with the features looking like holograms projected on eggs, or with people looking grotesquely deformed when they aren't."
Wow, strange. I had problems with time preception too. Sometimes I felt like I was above time, and other times I felt like I was below it.
The problem for me, only really resolved when I lowered the celexa to a very low dose, or if I didn't take it with any lithium.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on July 29, 2006, at 1:17:46
In reply to can lithium CAUSE hallucinations?, posted by parasolips on July 28, 2006, at 18:15:55
Was the lithium intented to augmet the lexapro for depression, or to controll mood swings etc?
Linkadge
Posted by Tomatheus on July 29, 2006, at 11:46:24
In reply to can lithium CAUSE hallucinations?, posted by parasolips on July 28, 2006, at 18:15:55
Parasolips,
I experienced some of the same symptoms that you've reported -- particularly the confusion and the general "weird" feeling -- when I took lithium. I did not experience any hallucinations or illusions, but I did notice that I became more sensitive to light once I started taking lithium. I was on lithium for a little more than a year and a half.
When I took lithium with Wellbutrin (which was the case for most of the time that I spent taking lithium), I noticed a partial antidepressant response but felt somewhat more anxious and less focused than I did previously. Actually, trouble with focus and concentration had always been a moderate problem for me, and the lithium seemed to make these symptoms worse. But after more than a year on my Wellbutrin-lithium combo, I eventually reached a point where I could no longer afford the Wellbutrin, so I stopped taking it. For the first few weeks after discontinuing the Wellbutrin, I felt basically the same as I did when I was on the Wellbutrin-lithium combo. But slowly but surely, I eventually developed what I now recognize to be symptoms of panic disorder, and it wasn't long before these symptoms became quite severe. I've since stopped taking lithium and have noticed that the symptoms of panic and anxiety (as well as the photosensitivity) that developed during my time on lithium have subsided to some extent, but not completely.
The point that I'm trying to make is that even though lithium can be a very effective drug for some individuals diagnosed with bipolar disorder (especially those who experience endogenous or "spontaneous" [hypo]mania without rapid cycling), it is not for everybody. It was an awful medication for me, and based on your post, it sounds like it's only made your condition worse. I know that it's generally a good idea to give most meds (or minerals, in this case) a fair trial, but if you keep feeling worse with the lithium than you did before you started taking it, please make this clear to your doctor. Staying on lithium for as long as I did was probably the worst mistake that I've ever made (and I've made some pretty stupid mistakes in life), so I caution you not to stay on it for too long if you're not receiving any benefits from it.
Thanks for your post.
Tomatheus
> hello,
>
> i've only been on lithium for a few days...starting at 600mg lith carbonate er [300 2x/day] and supposed to move up to 900 soon...but since i've started taking it, i've noticed that, in addition to having nausea, confusion, sleepiness, and just generally feeling "weird", i think i have been having mild hallucinations. Not full blown, more like illusions i suppose....things look strange, i look at my computer screen and i see shadows moving around in it, i feel like the world seems...pixelated, and it's like i can see swirling gasses in the spaces between objects. also, i get vivid closed eye visuals. i've experienced both the illusions and the closed eye thing before without meds, but it seems to now have been triggered by starting lithium.
>
> i'm also on lexapro and klomopin, and have been taking those for a while.
>
> also, this "weird" feeling is kind-of triggering me toward self-injury...and i cut myself last night for the first time in a while and i'm not even sure why.
>
> i guess my main question is just whether anyone has heard of hallucinations/illusions being caused by lithium? maybe it's just me being crazy or having too much in my system? should i be concerned?
>
> thanks!
Posted by Phillipa on July 29, 2006, at 12:26:22
In reply to Re: can lithium CAUSE hallucinations? » parasolips, posted by Tomatheus on July 29, 2006, at 11:46:24
You guys are scaring me as the pdoc said that lamictal was expensive would I like to try lithium? And I'm weaning off my luvox one year with no improvement is enough. Love Phillipa
Posted by Tomatheus on July 29, 2006, at 12:32:57
In reply to Re: can lithium CAUSE hallucinations?, posted by Phillipa on July 29, 2006, at 12:26:22
Phillipa,
I don't mean to scare you. I'm not saying that it's necessarily a bad idea to *try* lithium. My main point is that in my case, I think that I stayed on lithium for way too long and have been suffering long-term adverse effects as a result. Compared with those of most meds, the effects of lithium kick in rather quickly. So, it shouldn't take too long to figure out whether your response to lithium will be favorable or unfavorable. I'm basically trying to say that if your response to lithium is unfavorable, please don't stay on it for any longer than is necessary.
Tomatheus
> You guys are scaring me as the pdoc said that lamictal was expensive would I like to try lithium? And I'm weaning off my luvox one year with no improvement is enough. Love Phillipa
Posted by greywolf on July 29, 2006, at 17:02:35
In reply to Re: can lithium CAUSE hallucinations?, posted by linkadge on July 29, 2006, at 1:17:46
Definitely. Years ago I was on Lithium and an SSRI, and I threw some alcohol in for good measure. It was a pretty bizarre couple days.
Posted by linkadge on July 29, 2006, at 20:56:00
In reply to Re: can lithium CAUSE hallucinations? » parasolips, posted by Tomatheus on July 29, 2006, at 11:46:24
The reason Tomatheus may not have had the LSD like visual disturbances could be due to the fact that Wellbutrin is not really an SSRI.
It's my belief that its the combination of the serotonergic activity that can cause the real weirdness.
Linkadge
Posted by Tomatheus on July 31, 2006, at 19:26:44
In reply to Re: can lithium CAUSE hallucinations?, posted by linkadge on July 29, 2006, at 20:56:00
> The reason Tomatheus may not have had the LSD like visual disturbances could be due to the fact that Wellbutrin is not really an SSRI.
>
> It's my belief that its the combination of the serotonergic activity that can cause the real weirdness.I think that what you wrote is probably correct. Of course, I have no intention of testing your theory ... just in case you were wondering. The lithium by itself and/or in combination with Wellbutrin messed me up enough as it is. The thought of taking lithium with an SSRI makes me cringe. Then again, the thought of taking lithium *period* (with or without another medication) makes me cringe.
Tomatheus
Posted by linkadge on July 31, 2006, at 20:05:58
In reply to Re: can lithium CAUSE hallucinations? » linkadge, posted by Tomatheus on July 31, 2006, at 19:26:44
I can believe it. These are strong meds, and for the most part, doctors don't really know what they're prescribing, esp the combinations.
Do you think anyone is sitting around a labratory testing to see if the combination of AD's and lithium isn't totally f*cking up a rat brain works ?
Linkadge
Posted by Tomatheus on July 31, 2006, at 20:18:12
In reply to Re: can lithium CAUSE hallucinations?, posted by linkadge on July 31, 2006, at 20:05:58
> Do you think anyone is sitting around a labratory testing to see if the combination of AD's and lithium isn't totally f*cking up a rat brain works ?
I highly doubt it. Even if there are researchers out there interested in conducting such a study, I bet they'd have a difficult time finding anyone willing to fund it.
Tomatheus
Posted by unhappycarrot on September 6, 2010, at 13:56:54
In reply to Re: can lithium CAUSE hallucinations? » linkadge, posted by Tomatheus on July 31, 2006, at 20:18:12
@Tomatheus
Thank you so much for posting this question! I have been taking lithium er since April 2010. At first I noticed a significant improvement, and I have been losing the weight I gained while on depakote er. For once I was excited about taking my meds!
But then I had to go to a different doctor and he switched me suddenly from lithium er to immediate release because he said he didn't think my insurance would cover the ER tabs. After a few weeks of being extremely nautious I went back to the same clinic and found that doctor was no longer practicing there. Now I am on lithium ER again and have been for about a month and a half.
For the past two and a half weeks every time I close my eyes to sleep I start seeing weird things and I get so involved watching the movies on my eye lids that I stay up all night. At first I thought I must be psychic and I'm having clairvoyance. But the visuals have started frightening me. I saw Jesus being lifted onto the cross and his head turned into a hairy bull with bright red eyes then it morphed back into jesus and his eyes got huge and black in the shape of almonds. Then all I could see was a grey alien and reflections of my eyes in its eyes and it disappeared. Then I saw a vast landscape of stars.
I thought I must have had a vision of the future. So I rented The Fourth Kind and last night I became convinced I was not really psychic but I was abducted by aliens, then I thought maybe my whole family had been abducted at one point in their lives.
Lithium is scary stuff. There's not a chance in h*ll I will ever be taking it again. I need to go to the doctor asap. Thank you for helping me draw my own conclusions that lithium even by itself can cause hallucinations at a fairly low dose. I have only been taking 900mg daily and the doctor wanted to increase it because the lithium levels in my blood were considered low.
Posted by Tomatheus on September 6, 2010, at 18:41:40
In reply to Re: can lithium CAUSE hallucinations?, posted by unhappycarrot on September 6, 2010, at 13:56:54
Unhappycarrot,
Thank you for your post, and welcome to Psycho-Babble. I'm very sorry to hear about the visuals that you were having while you were taking lithium, and I hope you're doing better now. Good luck also with seeing a doctor. I hope that you'll be able to get the care that you need.
Tomatheus
Posted by Phillipa on September 6, 2010, at 20:46:06
In reply to Re: can lithium CAUSE hallucinations?, posted by unhappycarrot on September 6, 2010, at 13:57:55
Wow that is scarey. Good that you're going off it . Phillipa
Posted by SLS on September 7, 2010, at 4:58:46
In reply to Re: can lithium CAUSE hallucinations?, posted by unhappycarrot on September 6, 2010, at 13:57:55
> @Tomatheus
>
> Thank you so much for posting this question! I have been taking lithium er since April 2010. At first I noticed a significant improvement, and I have been losing the weight I gained while on depakote er. For once I was excited about taking my meds!
>
> But then I had to go to a different doctor and he switched me suddenly from lithium er to immediate release because he said he didn't think my insurance would cover the ER tabs. After a few weeks of being extremely nautious I went back to the same clinic and found that doctor was no longer practicing there. Now I am on lithium ER again and have been for about a month and a half.
>
> For the past two and a half weeks every time I close my eyes to sleep I start seeing weird things and I get so involved watching the movies on my eye lids that I stay up all night. At first I thought I must be psychic and I'm having clairvoyance. But the visuals have started frightening me. I saw Jesus being lifted onto the cross and his head turned into a hairy bull with bright red eyes then it morphed back into jesus and his eyes got huge and black in the shape of almonds. Then all I could see was a grey alien and reflections of my eyes in its eyes and it disappeared. Then I saw a vast landscape of stars.
>
> I thought I must have had a vision of the future. So I rented The Fourth Kind and last night I became convinced I was not really psychic but I was abducted by aliens, then I thought maybe my whole family had been abducted at one point in their lives.
>
> Lithium is scary stuff. There's not a chance in h*ll I will ever be taking it again. I need to go to the doctor asap. Thank you for helping me draw my own conclusions that lithium even by itself can cause hallucinations at a fairly low dose. I have only been taking 900mg daily and the doctor wanted to increase it because the lithium levels in my blood were considered low.
Have you been taking any other drugs?
- Scott
Posted by unhappycarrot on September 10, 2010, at 5:29:36
In reply to Re: can lithium CAUSE hallucinations? » unhappycarrot, posted by SLS on September 7, 2010, at 4:58:46
The only other drug I was taking at the time of all the hallucinations was .5mg of Ativan. I took it to calm down and help with sleep. I have been taking the ativan for a few years to control my anxiety and have taken it as needed while starting the Lithium in April. So I don't think the ativan had anything to do with the visions, as I have never had visions either on or off drugs before.
Since that night I have not had any hallucinations. I haven't taken the lithium since that night either. I have been doing a little research online to find out what other drugs I could take to control the mania, but there's not a lot out there that I feel comfortable taking. I am reluctant to go back on Depakote because I gain lots of weight on it.
I feel better that I am not taking lithium, and I'm not manic or depressed right now. My lithium lvls were always low, meaning not at a theraputic level, so now I am questioning if I even need to take bipolar meds.
Is it possible that the meds could be doing more harm than good? Like excessive weight gain, hallucinations and a ton of other side effects... I have been diagnosed with BP1 and anxiety in 2001. Since then I have been heavily medicated and nobody but myself has ever questioned it. The main reason I question it is because I was misdiagnosed with acute psychotic disorder in the very beginning. Is it possible that I was misdiagnosed twice?
I do not have a great support system, and the doctors I have seen are douche bags. They don't really seem to care about anything but getting paid. So I found this site....
This is the end of the thread.
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