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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jonathanupr on July 8, 2006, at 15:01:46
I am looking into the issue of amphetamine intake over time as a factor in my decreased creativity. I've been on Adderall for about a year now at a relatively stable dose of around 25 mgs per day. Either one of two things is occuring, or both.... (1) the SSRI that I am on has inhibited my creativity, (2) the Adderall that I take has desensitized my dopamine channels over this past year, and thus when a creative urge hits me or could hit me I feel no spark or need to follow up on it. An interesting read I had on how our life occurrences stimulate dopamine production and sensitivity. I could very well see a dopamine agonist that acts on dopamine release and as a DA uptake inhibitor, crippling one's natural abilities to feel enraptured by the flow of life....what they may feel on a regular basis is the direct result of dopamine release when they take such an amphetamine.... On the other hand, Adderall has very much allowed me to show up for work 8 hrs a day and to get promotion after promotion... I can read a lot longer than I used to be able to without having boredom set in (used to set in and I'd get tired as well within 10 minutes of reading, now I can go on much longer). But I just feel so damn uncreative, I feel as if the world is tasted by everyone so why even write about it or express one's experience....very lethargic / apathetic. Or (3) the combination of 1 and 2 above.
Any feedback, experience, or knowledge?
Posted by rjlockhart on July 8, 2006, at 20:26:31
In reply to Amphetamine intake over time decrease creativity?, posted by jonathanupr on July 8, 2006, at 15:01:46
Yes,
I was on Adderall Dexedrine, for 10 years. Low doses cause dopamine release to "rest" while it does stimulate at first, it decreases the impulses of dopamine flow. Thats why you feel so ugh, lifeless. Higher doses do the opposite, you are more creative, alot more, since higher doses stimulate dopamine out of the synapse continually, which there is alot more dopamine that is in the synapse, thats why you feel more creative, ambitious, up.
60mg of Adderall usally did that for me. Some people take that regulary, but over time since i have taken Adderall, well really Dexedrine for a long time, it wears you down at high doses repeatedly, and to a degree very bad. You feel horride. I mean you have to recover.
Anyways, see if you can go up a little on the dose. Lower doses, 25mg cause you to be this way. They decrease the eletrical impulse on ADHD, ADD people.
Best luck!
post back if you want
rj
Posted by Questionmark on July 9, 2006, at 0:02:37
In reply to Re: Amphetamine intake over time decrease creativity?, posted by rjlockhart on July 8, 2006, at 20:26:31
I don't know what I think about the previous poster's take on this-- maybe he/she's right-- but I would automatically guess that it's not the Adderall that's making you feel less creative and more apathetic, but the SSRI. Certainly I'm no huge proponent of Adderall or other stimulants: I think they have their place and that they have a number of great beneficial uses, but I also think that they have a number of major downsides, too-- and many that often go unnoticed (such as the egocentrism or absurd but subtle degree of self-importance that you feel about yourself, which can have many negative consequences potentially, if even slight/subtle). However, I DO believe that one of their benefits (unless crashing) is to enhance creativity-- which is also definitely the opposite with SSRIs (at least for me and I assume most people). SSRIs greatly reduce creativity.
I hope this helps answer your question.
(And sorry for the rambling.)
Posted by pseudoname on July 9, 2006, at 9:27:21
In reply to Amphetamine intake over time decrease creativity?, posted by jonathanupr on July 8, 2006, at 15:01:46
Hi, Jonathan.
I thought your post was pretty engaging. It's clear that you're still connected emotionally to things that are important to you. I mean, being creative is still important to you; you're not apathetic about THAT.
Also, remember that *feeling* creative is irrelevant. The point is behavior that produces novel, worthwhile objects and solutions. Studies have shown that the decisive factor in creative genius is not captivating motivation or being seized by “Flow” but dogged persistence regardless of feelings. Plenty of people can feel creative while producing nothing new or extrinsically valuable.
Since you've had at least 2 promotions in the last year, maybe you're being more creative than you feel?
A couple questions:
(1) How long have you been on the SSRI? Which one? What dose? Why were you prescribed it?
(2) Why were you prescribed the Adderall?
(3) How long have you felt this decreased creativity problem?Thanks for your post.
Posted by paulbwell on July 9, 2006, at 9:38:26
In reply to Amphetamine intake over time decrease creativity?, posted by jonathanupr on July 8, 2006, at 15:01:46
> I am looking into the issue of amphetamine intake over time as a factor in my decreased creativity. I've been on Adderall for about a year now at a relatively stable dose of around 25 mgs per day. Either one of two things is occuring, or both.... (1) the SSRI that I am on has inhibited my creativity, (2) the Adderall that I take has desensitized my dopamine channels over this past year, and thus when a creative urge hits me or could hit me I feel no spark or need to follow up on it. An interesting read I had on how our life occurrences stimulate dopamine production and sensitivity. I could very well see a dopamine agonist that acts on dopamine release and as a DA uptake inhibitor, crippling one's natural abilities to feel enraptured by the flow of life....what they may feel on a regular basis is the direct result of dopamine release when they take such an amphetamine.... On the other hand, Adderall has very much allowed me to show up for work 8 hrs a day and to get promotion after promotion... I can read a lot longer than I used to be able to without having boredom set in (used to set in and I'd get tired as well within 10 minutes of reading, now I can go on much longer). But I just feel so damn uncreative, I feel as if the world is tasted by everyone so why even write about it or express one's experience....very lethargic / apathetic. Or (3) the combination of 1 and 2 above.
>
> Any feedback, experience, or knowledge?It sounds like you are getting some benefit from your med.
Last centries greatest Mathmaticians, Paul Erdos, took Dexedrine or Ritalin or BOTH everyday for the last 25 years of his life 1971-1996.He is recognised as being one of the greatest Mathamaticians of last centery-and lived to 86yo.
He was challenged to give up the pills for 1 month-for $1000 and did,upon which his output sank, when collecting his fee, he exclaimed "you have set Maths back a month, and started taking his pills again.
Paul Erdos-The man who loved only numbers.
Cheers
Posted by jonathanupr on July 10, 2006, at 0:47:56
In reply to Re: Amphetamine intake over time decrease creativity? » jonathanupr, posted by paulbwell on July 9, 2006, at 9:38:26
I am taking the SSRI (Lexapro) for a buffer/cushion for the Adderall (which I take for ADHD/narcoleptic issues)..... When on anything that enhances my dopamine output or inhibits reuptake, my OCD goes haywire if I don't simultaneously have an SSRI working on the serotonin channels....Also, Gabitril has helped immensely with very few side effects for anger/irritability that came about during the Adderall rebound....
thanks for the replies.......
Posted by pseudoname on July 10, 2006, at 12:15:46
In reply to Re: Amphetamine intake over time decrease creativi, posted by jonathanupr on July 10, 2006, at 0:47:56
Hey, jonathan.
It seems your med picture is a bit more complex than it looked at first.
You might be able to get a clearer picture of what's going on by considering the timelines both of the various drugs and of the subjective experience of creativity problem. That's what I was thinking of in my questions.
Best wishes.
Posted by helpme on July 14, 2006, at 14:50:15
In reply to Re: Amphetamine intake over time decrease creativity? » jonathanupr, posted by paulbwell on July 9, 2006, at 9:38:26
I read once that Andy Warhol took "two amphetamine pills every day" for most of his life.
> > I am looking into the issue of amphetamine intake over time as a factor in my decreased creativity. I've been on Adderall for about a year now at a relatively stable dose of around 25 mgs per day. Either one of two things is occuring, or both.... (1) the SSRI that I am on has inhibited my creativity, (2) the Adderall that I take has desensitized my dopamine channels over this past year, and thus when a creative urge hits me or could hit me I feel no spark or need to follow up on it. An interesting read I had on how our life occurrences stimulate dopamine production and sensitivity. I could very well see a dopamine agonist that acts on dopamine release and as a DA uptake inhibitor, crippling one's natural abilities to feel enraptured by the flow of life....what they may feel on a regular basis is the direct result of dopamine release when they take such an amphetamine.... On the other hand, Adderall has very much allowed me to show up for work 8 hrs a day and to get promotion after promotion... I can read a lot longer than I used to be able to without having boredom set in (used to set in and I'd get tired as well within 10 minutes of reading, now I can go on much longer). But I just feel so damn uncreative, I feel as if the world is tasted by everyone so why even write about it or express one's experience....very lethargic / apathetic. Or (3) the combination of 1 and 2 above.
> >
> > Any feedback, experience, or knowledge?
>
> It sounds like you are getting some benefit from your med.
>
>
> Last centries greatest Mathmaticians, Paul Erdos, took Dexedrine or Ritalin or BOTH everyday for the last 25 years of his life 1971-1996.
>
> He is recognised as being one of the greatest Mathamaticians of last centery-and lived to 86yo.
>
> He was challenged to give up the pills for 1 month-for $1000 and did,upon which his output sank, when collecting his fee, he exclaimed "you have set Maths back a month, and started taking his pills again.
>
> Paul Erdos-The man who loved only numbers.
>
> Cheers
Posted by alohashirt on July 15, 2006, at 21:50:30
In reply to Re: Amphetamine intake over time decrease creativity?, posted by helpme on July 14, 2006, at 14:50:15
John Paul Sartre also wrote most of his works on amphetamines. Which doesn't mean that amphetamines don't decrease creativity for you.
I'd recommend widening the search-
are you doing work that has intrinsic meaning to you?
do you get enough sleep?
do you see art or music that affects you on a regular basis?
>
> I read once that Andy Warhol took "two amphetamine pills every day" for most of his life.
>
>
> > > I am looking into the issue of amphetamine intake over time as a factor in my decreased creativity. I've been on Adderall for about a year now at a relatively stable dose of around 25 mgs per day. Either one of two things is occuring, or both.... (1) the SSRI that I am on has inhibited my creativity, (2) the Adderall that I take has desensitized my dopamine channels over this past year, and thus when a creative urge hits me or could hit me I feel no spark or need to follow up on it. An interesting read I had on how our life occurrences stimulate dopamine production and sensitivity. I could very well see a dopamine agonist that acts on dopamine release and as a DA uptake inhibitor, crippling one's natural abilities to feel enraptured by the flow of life....what they may feel on a regular basis is the direct result of dopamine release when they take such an amphetamine.... On the other hand, Adderall has very much allowed me to show up for work 8 hrs a day and to get promotion after promotion... I can read a lot longer than I used to be able to without having boredom set in (used to set in and I'd get tired as well within 10 minutes of reading, now I can go on much longer). But I just feel so damn uncreative, I feel as if the world is tasted by everyone so why even write about it or express one's experience....very lethargic / apathetic. Or (3) the combination of 1 and 2 above.
> > >
> > > Any feedback, experience, or knowledge?
> >
> > It sounds like you are getting some benefit from your med.
> >
> >
> > Last centries greatest Mathmaticians, Paul Erdos, took Dexedrine or Ritalin or BOTH everyday for the last 25 years of his life 1971-1996.
> >
> > He is recognised as being one of the greatest Mathamaticians of last centery-and lived to 86yo.
> >
> > He was challenged to give up the pills for 1 month-for $1000 and did,upon which his output sank, when collecting his fee, he exclaimed "you have set Maths back a month, and started taking his pills again.
> >
> > Paul Erdos-The man who loved only numbers.
> >
> > Cheers
>
>
Posted by cloudydaze on July 20, 2006, at 2:08:31
In reply to Re: Amphetamine intake over time decrease creativity?, posted by alohashirt on July 15, 2006, at 21:50:30
Maybe you are less creative because the meds have caused you life to even out a bit?
My bipolar disorder is not quite as severe as it once was (or maybe i just cope better now)...but when it was the worst was when my creativity was strongest. I used to write poetry and draw every day....now not so much. Sometimes being depressed, or having crazy chemical imbalences causes us to be creative...
This is the end of the thread.
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