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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by willyee on June 18, 2006, at 13:46:22
Here is a link i came across,its so filled with information i know im not the first to find it,but ive never seen it before,its something that will take some time in reading here and there unless it really interests you,its a guidline for benzos,charts of potency,withdrawal procedures,method of actions etc,i dont know the credentials of its value but again im sure someone here does.
http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzcha01.htm
Posted by bassman on June 18, 2006, at 14:22:46
In reply to Benzo info, posted by willyee on June 18, 2006, at 13:46:22
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! Help, it's Heather again! You know how you guys in the UK can't get benzos no matter how much they are really indicated? Here's one of the reasons.
Posted by willyee on June 18, 2006, at 15:52:25
In reply to Re: Benzo info, posted by bassman on June 18, 2006, at 14:22:46
Really so is this like a notorious benzo hater?
I figured someone could shed light on it,seemed rather negative,in all honesty it literaly made me stop using the xanax i had cause i was saving a few bucks and just came back from getting my klonopin as it says xanax is much worse in terms of safety etc.
I personaly never seen this before.
Posted by yxibow on June 18, 2006, at 17:02:52
In reply to Re: Benzo info, posted by willyee on June 18, 2006, at 15:52:25
> Really so is this like a notorious benzo hater?
>
> I figured someone could shed light on it,seemed rather negative,in all honesty it literaly made me stop using the xanax i had cause i was saving a few bucks and just came back from getting my klonopin as it says xanax is much worse in terms of safety etc.
>
> I personaly never seen this before.Yes, she is a notorious benzo hater, and the site isnt written by her either.
Posted by Greif on June 19, 2006, at 22:00:29
In reply to Re: Benzo info » willyee, posted by yxibow on June 18, 2006, at 17:02:52
Try going to benzo Island on that website. A group of crazy damaged individuals that blame there condition on benzos. Sing on and challenge their dogma...interesting experiment if you have time to kill. You will be flamed, condemned and banned if you even suggest taking Valarian root.
Posted by ed_uk on June 20, 2006, at 15:51:49
In reply to Re: Benzo info, posted by Greif on June 19, 2006, at 22:00:29
I once had a look at the Benzo Island website. I got the impression that it was operated like a dictatorship so I made a hasty exit. It seems that you are not allowed to say anything which even slightly disagrees with their views. Discussion and debate.....NOT allowed!
Ed
Posted by willyee on June 20, 2006, at 16:06:58
In reply to Re: Benzo info » Greif, posted by ed_uk on June 20, 2006, at 15:51:49
> I once had a look at the Benzo Island website. I got the impression that it was operated like a dictatorship so I made a hasty exit. It seems that you are not allowed to say anything which even slightly disagrees with their views. Discussion and debate.....NOT allowed!
>
> Ed
I dident even read it,i posted it in case anyone else was intersted i see a lot of talk latly on benzos,also i was curious about its origin,i was skeptical just breezing it.
I feel im fairly aware of the pros and cons of benzo use,and it being used at certain doses for siezures i dont worry about my use at a lower dose,besides it is not the problem at all.
But it goes to show u first impressions,not the article,but the post i found it in had me take klono over xanax as it had me worried about xanax.Thanks for setting my post straight.
Posted by ed_uk on June 20, 2006, at 16:29:58
In reply to Re: Benzo info, posted by willyee on June 20, 2006, at 16:06:58
Hi Willy
>Thanks for setting my post straight
You didn't post a link to Benzo Island, you posted a link to the Ashton Manual on benzo.co.uk
!!!
Ed
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 22, 2006, at 23:48:33
In reply to Re: Benzo info » willyee, posted by yxibow on June 18, 2006, at 17:02:52
> she is a notorious benzo hater
Please respect the views of others (such as users of her web site) and be sensitive to their feelings.
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by yxibow on June 24, 2006, at 9:19:57
In reply to Re: please be respectful and sensitive » yxibow, posted by Dr. Bob on June 22, 2006, at 23:48:33
> > she is a notorious benzo hater
>
> Please respect the views of others (such as users of her web site) and be sensitive to their feelings.
>
> But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.
>
> If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforce
>
> Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
>
> Thanks,
>
> BobI was only rephrasing what has been indicated many times on the board about benzo.org and its kin. It is apparent to many users that the site has misinformation and that the user and the professor quoted appears to have some sort of agenda to get all people off of benzodiazepines. That's not responsible either. Bnezodiazepines have many legitimate values for users on this board, including myself, which I could not get through a day at the moment due to a rare disorder. So I think that phrasing is fairly civil. There was no attack on anybody's character.
It would be the same if I commented on the "church of scientology", which as a doctor I'm sure you are aware that they have a dangerous viewpoint against all psychiatry and use actors such as Tom Cruise to boost their agenda.They hide behind numerous internet domains which if you dig into them you discover are paid by CoS, such as Narconon and other dubious organizations. And then they basically take people's life savings away -- I know personally that some people have gotten pulled into that before. And if you walk around any of their buildings here in southern california or other places they have "shifty" guards standing out front. It is rather scary.
At any rate, that is all I was trying to communicate -- that one has to look at the viewpoints of sites carefully and search for those that abide by codes such as HoN or similar signs of legitimacy of dispersal of realistic and factual information (e.g. emedicine, WebMD, etc.)
Posted by bassman on June 24, 2006, at 13:31:14
In reply to Re: please be respectful and sensitive » Dr. Bob, posted by yxibow on June 24, 2006, at 9:19:57
I could be 100% wrong, yxibow, but I don't think Dr. Bob was (really) referring either to your post or even to Ms. Ashton's site. My guess is that he was really referring to another post about Benzo Island. And on the main page of Benzo Island, I translate what they say as, "we aren't interested in anyone's opinion that is different than ours, namely, that benzos are evil. We also are equally uninterested in any differing points of view on a way to withdraw-we all think the switch to Valium (Ashton method) the only way. In the same vein, we don't want you to tell us that any adjuctive drugs (SSRI's, etc.) work, either. If you can't abide by these rules, get off our site". Fair enough-they don't want our input, but at the same time, courtesy demands we not go to their site and make fun of them, IMO. And I think that is what Dr. Bob was talking about-not the "benzo hater"-phrase. But then, it wouldn't be the first time I was 100% wrong. :>}
Posted by yxibow on June 24, 2006, at 15:45:22
In reply to Re: please be respectful and sensitive, posted by bassman on June 24, 2006, at 13:31:14
> I could be 100% wrong, yxibow, but I don't think Dr. Bob was (really) referring either to your post or even to Ms. Ashton's site. My guess is that he was really referring to another post about Benzo Island. And on the main page of Benzo Island, I translate what they say as, "we aren't interested in anyone's opinion that is different than ours, namely, that benzos are evil. We also are equally uninterested in any differing points of view on a way to withdraw-we all think the switch to Valium (Ashton method) the only way. In the same vein, we don't want you to tell us that any adjuctive drugs (SSRI's, etc.) work, either. If you can't abide by these rules, get off our site". Fair enough-they don't want our input, but at the same time, courtesy demands we not go to their site and make fun of them, IMO. And I think that is what Dr. Bob was talking about-not the "benzo hater"-phrase. But then, it wouldn't be the first time I was 100% wrong. :>}
I dunno.. I think it was "notorious benzo hater." I suppose if I "bent over backwards" (I'm not trying to be flippant) I could have phrased it differently in some other fashion, but the whole site and all struck me as pseudoscience.Okay, that's a personal view and therefore I know some people do ascribe to Ashton and to the independent person who seems to manage the benzo.org.uk site, which also has Christian symbolry (the fish in the middle of the page) (and I have no problem with religion, but it doesn't really belong on a site that is supposed to be disposing scientific information.)
But I'll get slapped for that too -- I know that some people find comfort being consoled in hospitals by the religion of their choice so that is fine, who knows, it may contribute to their success in treatment as any sort of consolation whether religious or psychiatric.
In the same manner, some people find it offensive to have a religious symbol not of their choice in their hospital bed room.
But then we go down the slippery slope of religion, evolution, things that cant be proven by science, things that don't belong in evidence based psychiatry, etc.. so I'll stop there and leave this thread without treading on others.
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 26, 2006, at 1:17:25
In reply to Re: please be respectful and sensitive » bassman, posted by yxibow on June 24, 2006, at 15:45:22
> I think it was "notorious benzo hater."
It was...
> I suppose if I "bent over backwards" (I'm not trying to be flippant) I could have phrased it differently in some other fashion
That's great, keeping mind that the idea here is to respect the views of others and to be sensitive to their feelings, could you please phrase the following differently?
> the whole site and all struck me as pseudoscience
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by yxibow on June 28, 2006, at 1:02:29
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » yxibow, posted by Dr. Bob on June 26, 2006, at 1:17:25
> > I think it was "notorious benzo hater."
>
> It was...
>
> > I suppose if I "bent over backwards" (I'm not trying to be flippant) I could have phrased it differently in some other fashion
>
> That's great, keeping mind that the idea here is to respect the views of others and to be sensitive to their feelings, could you please phrase the following differently?
>
> > the whole site and all struck me as pseudoscience
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
I'm not sure how to rephrase pseudoscience... I guess what I'm saying is that in my opinion it doesnt deliver a positive scientific approach to medicine on the net, and adhere to honesty policies. I'll leave that there. Its a personal view, not one that says that people who want to visit and adhere to their ideology can do -- its a free world, at least in some places, thankfully. Okay ?tidings
Posted by bassman on June 28, 2006, at 6:46:09
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » Dr. Bob, posted by yxibow on June 28, 2006, at 1:02:29
Just because I was 100% wrong last time won't keep me from offering another unsolicited (and probably, unwanted) opinion.:>} I think both Dr. Bob and yxibow are representing points of view that are very important. Dr. Bob doesn't wants his site to be open, but respectful, for many reasons that I can think of-and he feels that is worth monitoring. OTOH, perhaps yxibow is concerned, even passionate, about the idea that benzodiazepines are often prescribed reluctantly or not at all and taken reluctantly, if at all, because of those who would take the stance that benzodiazepines are seldom, if ever, appropriate, like the Ashton site. It also furthers the common belief in society that psychoactive meds-and mental health problems in general-can probably be cured by a nice walk around the block. For those of us suffering from a mental illness, that is infuriating. I am currently suffering from panic disorder and no medication-except Xanax-has given me any relief from the intense fear and depression that infliction presents. I know I should take more Xanax; my doc says I should take more Xanax-I really need to do something until an AD or something else can take over. So why don't I-I know intellectually that's the thing to do? Emotionally, I can't get the bad press benzodiazepines have gotten out of my head. So from my point of view, I would have liked to the see the Ashton site say something like “while benzodiazepine therapy can play an important function in relieving the distress of some mental illnesses, in some cases, benzodiazepine therapy is worth discontinuing-especially if the patient is in the unfortunate situation of taking a large dose of benzodiazepines that is causing severe side effects without any apparent therapeutic advantage. One approach to withdrawal is presented here; namely to substitute Valium for the benzodiazepine being used and to withdraw from the Valium. For 50-60% of the population, this transfer to Valium is unnecessary because the person can directly withdraw without significant discomfort; additionally, many people find they can discontinue, as long as they carefully taper the withdrawal, from the med they are using".
I see very positive things in what both of you have said.
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 29, 2006, at 23:12:46
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » Dr. Bob, posted by yxibow on June 28, 2006, at 1:02:29
> I'm not sure how to rephrase pseudoscience... I guess what I'm saying is that in my opinion it doesnt deliver a positive scientific approach to medicine on the net, and adhere to honesty policies. ... Okay ?
Thanks for rephrasing that. More of an I-statement would be:
> > I disagree with its approach to medicine on the net. For one thing, I prefer sites that have an honesty policy.
Could you accept something like that?
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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