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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by willyee on June 6, 2006, at 12:55:02
Just curious,i might have my own opinion here but,i really wanna know do u guys really believe that we need 4-6-8 weeks on a med before we can expect a difference.
I know the poster just mentioned it took 6 weeks before his parnate was felt,or he felt a significant change,that scares me.
First let me say,and ive asked this before,but can anyone name any other drug or substance,ABLE to readly cross the blood brain barrier,YET take weeks to produce its notable effect?
You have aspirin,which affects are noticable upon entering the brain,u have caffiene,nictone,weed,alcholol,benzos,certain aminos,most "hard drugs" ghb opiods and the list goes on and on.In fact the only substance i can think of is a anti-depressant that does enter the brain yet allegedly requires weeks to produce effect.
Now dont get me wrong,i can understand weeks to build up to a therputic level,and get a full benifit.
But again logicaly someone on a 4 week trial of a drug specifaicaly designed to ENTER the brain,by professionals,should have the main effect in four weeks,i mean four weeks!I think its just too convienant for the drug companis to say this to keep people who either
A not being helped by the drug
B having negative effects.
Saying it takes a few weeks is a EXCELLENT blow offline,no reasoning,no explanition really,just well it takes a few weeks,u know that,now shut up and keep taking it.
Also i find it convienant that honestly 6 weeks is enough for a drug that will carry w/d possabilites to ......well produce those charatircstics.
It doesent make sense to me to have people on possably addicting meds,which all of them really are,for 4-6 weeks is just too much of a risk.
Again i think we are just allowing the companies to make us panzies by accepting this.
Its fine if u dont agree,but if not i would ask u answer the orignal question for me,without going around it,which is...
what other substance known to man,that can enter the brain,does NOT produce its effects almost immediatly,and i again acnowledge the fact that full benifit can take time.
But even ur over the counter herbs kava valerian,or scrip sleeping pills,i mean every and any thing that hits ur brain u notice,and i just cant believe the logic that these drugs are what?..... built so lightly we dont notice them until a few weeks?If i were a drug company that is EXACTLY a theory id want accepted,my eyes would lite up green,"patients will accept that the drug is gonna take up toi possably 8 weeks" and understand this too,WOW.
Even if this is true,eight weeks should just not be acceptable,not for the cost of these drugs.
Honestly at this point id rather use a drug like ghb,or an opiod and attempt to use it safe as possable over using a drug that takes 8 weeks,if it took that long to build,again only logic would have it that it will take at LEAST that long to exit now how scary is that if the drug ends up not being of value?
Posted by Declan on June 6, 2006, at 14:33:20
In reply to Time Frames, posted by willyee on June 6, 2006, at 12:55:02
Hi Willy
With hard drugs you don't need to give *them* a 6 week trial.
With tianeptine I knew it was going to work for me after the second day.
I could have bumped my Parnate dose up and stuck it out for 6 weeks (I would have needed lots of sleepers). But would that have been good for my brain?
Why is there such a variety of responses to ADs?
Declan
Posted by Caedmon on June 7, 2006, at 12:55:06
In reply to Time Frames, posted by willyee on June 6, 2006, at 12:55:02
I take fish oil, which I love, and it did not start to work until probably 8 or 10 weeks later. And even then it was a slow warmup over another 4-8 weeks.
It takes time to change receptors, and it takes time for that to promote neurogenesis enough to alleviate mood symptoms. At least, that seems to be the theory these days. (It sounds like a good theory to me.)
You're right, there's no guarantee it will ultimately work even with perfect adherence, plus *boom* now you're dependent on the medication. I guess it's part of the pros and cons of the silly med game.
Maybe this is trivial or even stupid thing to bring up, I don't know, but just think how long it takes to lose weight! ("What, I have to lower my calories for *how long*??!")
- Chris
Posted by willyee on June 7, 2006, at 19:16:25
In reply to Re: Time Frames, posted by Caedmon on June 7, 2006, at 12:55:06
I dunno i can see the fish oil over that period providing more and more benifit,but fish oil isnt a very strong mind altering nutrient its an overall healthy nutrient.
I think u can compare that to someone giving up smoking where as in the long run they will notice health benifits etc.
However i dont think something like fishoil can be compared to a potent brain penatrating drug such as ssris or any AD.
I definatly can understand a long term effect,a a difference,but again i just cant see a substance that so readly enters the brain not having a notiable effect.
I mentioned a lot of things that do pentatrate the brain,and i still hold firm to that,from a simple aspirin to a joint,all these chemicals that hit the brain have some form of effect in a day or so,benzos etc,this is not to be confused with a long term effect,but a general effect.
I dont personaly feel something like fish oil is in this category.Parnate has never actualy "biult" an effect,even when i have remissions on it,its a daily struggle,i dont feel as if the drug built up,in fact it only takes a day or so for me to go into a parnate w/d in not having it,and this does scare me.
Also u mentioned comparing it to weight loss,again over all health and i think everything else is seperate from something so specific as the brain,
The brain is so respondant to drugs that affect it ,im just going over and over my point here lol,haha sorry i dont wanna become one of those people who resufuse to accept others feel different.I totaly hate when someone attempts to force there thoery on me,thanks for reading the post though,i believe ur on parnate too if im not mistaken so regardless of our opnions we both are fighting the same fight.
I also remeber parnate being more effective when i took fish oil,i need to start again,its just blah it was nasty lol.
Posted by notfred on June 8, 2006, at 22:06:15
In reply to Time Frames, posted by willyee on June 6, 2006, at 12:55:02
With every AD I have taken it takes 5-6 weeks for the AD to kick in. Major difference sometime between weeks 5 and 6.
This is the end of the thread.
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