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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Bonnie_CA on June 2, 2006, at 2:46:53
I am sure I am far from it, but with all the third degrees I get everytime I even mention a benzo, I just want to know...
How long does an average person take klonopin before they're addicted? How much can a person take before they become addicted? I've been taking .25 mg once or twice a day because prozac is garbage (I'm gonna ask to switch soon), and I am concerned about getting hooked on klonopin. Am I just being too worrisome? I hope someone can put my mind at ease.
For all I know, I'm worried about it because Prozac truly isn't working (who on earth presribes prozac for GAD?!). LOL
Thanks,
-Bonnie
Posted by Glydin on June 2, 2006, at 7:28:11
In reply to How much and how long for klonopin addiction?, posted by Bonnie_CA on June 2, 2006, at 2:46:53
>
> How long does an average person take klonopin before they're addicted?~~~ Medical Dependence can happen at around three weeks of continued use. Some folks never become addicted even after years of using a benzo as defined by what REAL addiction is defined as.
> How much can a person take before they become addicted?~~~ Addicted indivduals generally have ever increasing doses and do not reach a maintance dose for any long period of time.
Use of benzo's have well documented and reported pitfalls that are very real and horrible. Caution does need to be exercised. What isn't as common to hear is some folks do very well on them for long periods of time without abusive or addiction findings in their use. I think they are a good class of meds with some very approproiate uses and users.
Posted by bassman on June 2, 2006, at 9:01:47
In reply to How much and how long for klonopin addiction?, posted by Bonnie_CA on June 2, 2006, at 2:46:53
I think you mean "dependent", not "addicted". Dependent simple means that you can't stop taking it suddenly; you have to taper. The time until you can't just stop depends on the person and the benzo. I think the best route is to decrease slowly no matter how long you've been taking it, just to be on the safe side. And that's good advice for any med that a person's been taking for awhile-including antihypertensive meds, aspirin therapy, SSRI's, etc.
The question you bring up has been around FOREVER. There is study after study in the medical literature that suggests that benzos are very safe, can be used for extended periods of time without mental impairment, increasing the dosage excessively-and that in fact, dosage goes down, not up with time. On the other side of the scale are those like Heather Ashton, who claim that benzos lose their therapetic effects after a few weeks, cause more problems than they solve and that just about everyone would be better off without them. She is often cited as an expert in the field and you can check out her Web site should you want additional information.
There are some people who shouldn't be taking benzos, no doubt: those that will abuse them by taking larger and larger doses until they are way out of the therapeutic range. Then the person has two problems: the benzos are producing severe side effects plus, it is hard for the person to reduce the dose. The moral of the story is, "don't abuse medication". Same moral for pain relievers (including NSAIDS), alcohol, etc. etc.
You are taking a total dose of 0.5 mg and some people take as much as 20 mg Klonopin. You are taking a very low dose and anyone bugging you about "addiction" may be well-meaning, but misguided, IMO.
Posted by Bonnie_CA on June 2, 2006, at 14:39:34
In reply to Re: How much and how long for klonopin addiction?, posted by bassman on June 2, 2006, at 9:01:47
> You are taking a total dose of 0.5 mg and some people take as much as 20 mg Klonopin. You are taking a very low dose and anyone bugging you about "addiction" may be well-meaning, but misguided, IMO.Yeah, I keep thinking that as long as I'm on a tiny dose, I shouldn't get into too much trouble. The withdrawal from that tiny dose couldn't possibly be that bad, assuming that I become dependent on it at all. Yes, you are right bassman, I mean dependence and not addiction.
Thanks for the input!
-Bonnie
Posted by blueberry on June 2, 2006, at 17:36:17
In reply to How much and how long for klonopin addiction?, posted by Bonnie_CA on June 2, 2006, at 2:46:53
My doctor says it takes 2 to 4 months to become dependent. I disagree. I think many people can become dependent after just a few weeks.
The risks of dependency I think are greatly minimized by keeping doses as small as possible and spaced as far apart as possible. If you can handle it, it is not a bad idea to take a holiday for a day or two once a week. Even though most of the feelable effects of klono are gone in about 12 hours, it actually stays in your system for about 2 days.
To lessen dependence, lessen the dose, increase the effects, and get more time between doses, natural things like taurine, gaba, and magnesium can fill the gap pretty well.
Remedyfind.com is a great website where people post their ratings and experiences with various meds. Type in a google search "klonopin anxiety remedyfind". There you can see real life experiences of people with klono. Some love it, some hate it, some have horrible dependence, some don't, some get dependent real fast, some don't, some stay on a low dose for years, others find the need to keep increasing it.
Basically, mileage varies a lot.
Posted by Bonnie_CA on June 2, 2006, at 19:31:50
In reply to How much and how long for klonopin addiction?, posted by Bonnie_CA on June 2, 2006, at 2:46:53
Is it helpful to switch off with xanax? I have both, but I don't take both at the same time. I was just wondering if it would be helpful with preventing dependence.
Any feedback is appreciated! :D
Posted by bassman on June 2, 2006, at 19:38:53
In reply to Re: How much and how long for klonopin addiction?, posted by Bonnie_CA on June 2, 2006, at 19:31:50
I think you're asking for trouble by switching benzos to avoid dependence. My experience is that Klonopin is pretty easy to withdraw from (I'm doing it right now; no symptoms). Xanax, OTOH, can be a monster. Keep it simple and the dosage low and everything will be fine.
Posted by Phillipa on June 2, 2006, at 21:23:46
In reply to Re: How much and how long for klonopin addiction?, posted by bassman on June 2, 2006, at 19:38:53
I withdrew from xanax and alchohol in four days with valium and still take it after 30 yrs and don't take any more in fact I take less. Love Phillipa
Posted by RobertDavid on June 2, 2006, at 23:38:53
In reply to Re: How much and how long for klonopin addiction? » bassman, posted by Phillipa on June 2, 2006, at 21:23:46
I take 2mgs of klonopin for social anxiety going on 12 years now. I once took as much as 3mgs, but slowly worked down to 2mgs which I found to be totally effective. I have battled on and off with abusing alcohol, but I have never done so with klonopin. There is no high with it. They say people with true anxiety disorters rarely abuse the use of a benzo, in fact, if I had a choice I wouldn't be taking any medicine.
Through the years the anti anxiety benefits have remained the same, I have certainly built up a tolerance to klonopin and if I decided to stop, I'd do it very slowly to minimize withdrawls. I've done it before just to show myself I could, but when my social anxiety returned after completely withdrawing from klonopin, I went back to my 2mg dose and have my quality of life back.
If it wasn't for klonopin, I wouldn't be working or have a social life. There's a difference between tolerance and addiction. If you truly need a benzo to treat an anxiety disorter and don't take one for recreational purposes, they are great meds. You just don't quit them cold turkey like most other medications.
Different people can withdraw at different paces should they desire to stop. That said, why would I quit my daily "vitamin" pill as I call it because it treats my disorter. Diabetics take insolin, I take klonopin. I think a lot of people could be helped with their issues/disorters if there were not so many benzo phobic doctors out there. I'm very thankful for klonopin and have no plans to "withdraw" again. My doctor says I can be on it the rest of my life. Just my take.....
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on June 3, 2006, at 3:10:21
In reply to Re: How much and how long for klonopin addiction?, posted by RobertDavid on June 2, 2006, at 23:38:53
Klonopin is a wonderful and very safe drug for those who use it for the right purposes. I am taking less today than I was nine years ago. It's a great drug and works very well. Most if not all of the horror stories come from people who use it recreationally.
Posted by Bonnie_CA on June 3, 2006, at 3:47:28
In reply to Re: Don't believe the Klonopin hype, posted by UgottaHaveHope on June 3, 2006, at 3:10:21
Gawd I hope you're right. I am certainly not using it recreationally, and I'm taking the tiniest dose possible (well, I guess I could be ridiculous and take .125 mg instead of .25 [half of a half pill] LOL). I think xanax actually works better but I have more klonopin, so I figured I'd use that. When I take xanax it is only .25 as well. Any more than that puts me to sleep, so I guess I'm sensitive to it? The thing that I think some of the posters here are missing is that I'm not only taking klonopin... I'm taking Prozac, and it is either making my anxiety worse or it just isn't working (I'm diagnosed with GAD). It's not even approved for anxiety because of it's stimulating effect on people. It actually makes me sleepy, but if I take a nap, I wake up more anxious than ever, and if I fight the sleepiness I get anxious but less so than when I take a nap. I really want to give the Prozac a fighting chance to work, but I'm just not convinced. The Celexa I got off of did a better job than this stuff, and I was unhappy with the results of that (in extremely stressful times I'd fall apart, but day to day it worked fine).
I'm bothered that I'm having the same anxiety symptoms I had when I was 18 (when I first went to the doctor about it). Like I said, either the Prozac doesn't work or it's making it worse. Either way, thank goodness for benzodiazapines or I'd have to cancel my trip on Wednesday. I figure I'll down some xanax and practice deep breathing to get me through the plane ride both ways. I hate needing the benzos for anything besides plane rides and performances.
But again, I hope I can get through this without NEEDING to take klonopin for a long time. Or xanax. Can't wait to go back to the good ole days of using benzos for high stress only. *sigh*
Thanks again for the feedback!
-Bonnie
> Klonopin is a wonderful and very safe drug for those who use it for the right purposes. I am taking less today than I was nine years ago. It's a great drug and works very well. Most if not all of the horror stories come from people who use it recreationally.
Posted by RobertDavid on June 3, 2006, at 12:11:32
In reply to Re: Don't believe the Klonopin hype, posted by Bonnie_CA on June 3, 2006, at 3:47:28
> Gawd I hope you're right. I am certainly not using it recreationally, and I'm taking the tiniest dose possible (well, I guess I could be ridiculous and take .125 mg instead of .25 [half of a half pill] LOL). I think xanax actually works better but I have more klonopin, so I figured I'd use that. When I take xanax it is only .25 as well. Any more than that puts me to sleep, so I guess I'm sensitive to it? The thing that I think some of the posters here are missing is that I'm not only taking klonopin... I'm taking Prozac, and it is either making my anxiety worse or it just isn't working (I'm diagnosed with GAD).
Bonnie:
For what it's worth, I don't see you as someone that takes benzo's recreationally. I think statements regarding recreational use by myself and others were general ones, not directed at you. You have GAD, benzo's are in my opinion one of the best meds to really tackle your symptoms.
That said, you like many seem to have concerns of longtime therapy with a benzo. People with anxiety don't get addicted to benzos, they build up a tolerance meaning if they want to discontinue use, they need to taper slowly just like with like many other medicines. In my opinion it's a shame that those that suffer from SAD and GAD don't consider taking a benzo like klonopin daily and at doses that are theraputic to treat their anxiety disorter.
For example, the anxiety you're feeling about the wedding is something you most likely wouldn't have to stress about. But taking it in small doses here and there is your option. I just know for me that when I found the right doctor that got me to the right daily dose, my anticipatory anxiety was gone and social situations became fun, normal.
I'm not saying benzos are for everyone and we all have the right to take them in the way we are most comfortable, but for many, the solution to their anxiety disorter is in big part taking a high enough daily dose. It was pointed out that some with other medical conditions take as much as 20mgs of klonopin a day. Most with anxiety disorters that take it on a daily basis land somewhere between 1 and 4 mgs.
I'm no doctor, this is just my take, but I believe benzos are under utilized and could improve the quality of life for many, but their is to much misinformed info about them not to mention benzo phobic doctors. 12 years of Klonopin has changed my life for sure. Best of luck to you... Rob
Posted by Caedmon on June 3, 2006, at 12:43:47
In reply to How much and how long for klonopin addiction?, posted by Bonnie_CA on June 2, 2006, at 2:46:53
Xanax is somewhat cross-tolerant with Klonopin. I think I might just stick with one or the other to keep your body and mind in a steadier way.
- Chris
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