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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jealibeanz on May 28, 2006, at 16:46:43
Why isn't this commonly used for depression? Is it dangerous? Wouldn't it help some people?
Posted by yxibow on May 29, 2006, at 5:23:08
In reply to L-Dopa, posted by jealibeanz on May 28, 2006, at 16:46:43
> Why isn't this commonly used for depression? Is it dangerous? Wouldn't it help some people?
It has a potential of causing psychosis, just as it does in parkinson's therapy, so it could be compound ed in some. It also can cause dyskinesias. Its important for parkinson's in conjunction with other medications to stave off further deterioration.
Posted by shasling on May 29, 2006, at 8:30:08
In reply to Re: L-Dopa » jealibeanz, posted by yxibow on May 29, 2006, at 5:23:08
Although my doc very much wants to boost my dopamine, she won't use L-Dopa because it a) is primary tx for Parkinson's and b) only works for so long then you have to scramble and start all that augmenting and cocktailing; and she'd rather save it in case of Parkinsons. Doesn't want me to perhaps some down with PD in the future and have the front-line treatment be useless.
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 29, 2006, at 10:15:03
In reply to L-Dopa, posted by jealibeanz on May 28, 2006, at 16:46:43
> Why isn't this commonly used for depression? Is it dangerous? Wouldn't it help some people?
Sure, it would help some people. The issue is dose. In reading my esteemed peers' responses, there is a lot of propaganda out there about dopaminergic treatment. Lord love a duck, you can't have people going around and feeling good about a treatment. Then we'd have to make it illegal, and send in the police.
Do a google on Mucuna pruriens, velvet bean.
Lar
Posted by yxibow on May 29, 2006, at 18:20:19
In reply to Re: L-Dopa » jealibeanz, posted by Larry Hoover on May 29, 2006, at 10:15:03
> > Why isn't this commonly used for depression? Is it dangerous? Wouldn't it help some people?
>
> Sure, it would help some people. The issue is dose. In reading my esteemed peers' responses, there is a lot of propaganda out there about dopaminergic treatment. Lord love a duck, you can't have people going around and feeling good about a treatment. Then we'd have to make it illegal, and send in the police.
>
> Do a google on Mucuna pruriens, velvet bean.
>
> Lar
Its not about "feeling good" -- dopamine doesn't just ordinarily make you feel good and if you want that, go take Wellbutrin.Levidopa-carvidopa is reserved I would say almost exclusively for parkinsonism for the exact reason that the previous poster had mentioned her doctor saying. It can cause uncomfortable dyskinesias as I mentioned as well, though maybe not TD, it is possible, even with dopamine agonists.
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 29, 2006, at 19:04:24
In reply to Re: L-Dopa » Larry Hoover, posted by yxibow on May 29, 2006, at 18:20:19
> > Lord love a duck, you can't have people going around and feeling good about a treatment. Then we'd have to make it illegal, and send in the police.
> >
> > Do a google on Mucuna pruriens, velvet bean.
> >
> > Lar
>
>
> Its not about "feeling good" -- dopamine doesn't just ordinarily make you feel good and if you want that, go take Wellbutrin.It's simply an option, to try consuming some beans from that particular genus. I think it is a genus thing, not just that species. Some people just eat them, and feel good.
> Levidopa-carvidopa is reserved I would say almost exclusively for parkinsonism for the exact reason that the previous poster had mentioned her doctor saying.
I have to emphasize dose. It really matters how much one uses, to contemplate effect size. In some cases, even the effect type varies with dose.
> It can cause uncomfortable dyskinesias as I mentioned as well, though maybe not TD, it is possible, even with dopamine agonists.
>Can, yes. May not. Certainly, a well-informed person can manage the concept presented here. Attempting to draw absolute conclusions about the idea is what I'm resisting. Properly matching the symptoms with the treatment is a definite advantage.
There was a dopaminergic drug withdrawn from the world market.....I forget its name, but it was causing spontaneous orgasm and other "adverse" effects. It was not tested in people with sexual dysfunction, as far as I know. People who lost their sexual desire or function. It seems tragic that the option is gone, despite the potential for misuse.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 29, 2006, at 19:42:01
In reply to Re: L-Dopa » Larry Hoover, posted by yxibow on May 29, 2006, at 18:20:19
May I try again?
It seems that any medical description of an entire class of drugs/supplements which promote some dopaminergic actions is relegated to a category with connotations of abuse, or the adverse effects are exaggerated, so as to eliminate any discussion of the positive attributes of the class.
To me, it feels like politics, like orthodoxy, substituting for the application of reason.
Yes, there are adverse effects of over-use, of over-dose. That does not preclude the utility of the treatments themselves. Not in my book.
E.g., the FDA's recent assertion that there is no medical use for marijuana.
It disturbs me to hear these sorts of categorical replies to simple questions. Moderate appropriate use of these agents is not impossible. It is not improbable. It can certainly be beneficial.
One of the most salutatory effects of the use of velvet bean is in quality of life, as reported by users. Why is quality of life arising from dopaminergic agents given a negative spin? It seems that there is one, notwithstanding the application of reason.
Lar
Posted by Declan on May 31, 2006, at 0:33:52
In reply to Re: L-Dopa, posted by Larry Hoover on May 29, 2006, at 19:42:01
Hey Larry
Do you know if they are a food that people eat and have always eaten?
Velvet Bean is from India?
Declan
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 31, 2006, at 9:56:16
In reply to Velvet Beans » Larry Hoover, posted by Declan on May 31, 2006, at 0:33:52
> Hey Larry
>
> Do you know if they are a food that people eat and have always eaten?
>
> Velvet Bean is from India?
>
> DeclanOh, yes, they've always been a food item. Historically, without any doubt. Why they may have the salutatory properties they have has only recently been elucidated. One can imagine any number of stories about why these beans are good. Their "vibrations". Some spiritual thing?
And, rest assured, there were always appropriate uses, and appropriate amounts. People aren't stupid, except in this modern world, where somehow people equate natural with safe. What the heck is up with that? 99% of all plants are seriously poisonous, or simply inedible to such an extent that you can't get a poisonous dose.
Ayurvedic medicine is a systematic medicine. You have to understand the substance in the context of its human uses. You shouldn't just run out and eat some.
I apologize to anyone who thought I was being flip. I generally assume people will do their own research. Or ask questions.
Lar
This is the end of the thread.
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