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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by qbsbrown on May 13, 2006, at 4:59:04
Out of extreme curiousity. Please advise of the different neurotransmitters working on. Same GABA receptors? I know both work on dopamine.
I've always wondered. Some docs have said they'd prefer me to have a couple drinks than cups of coffee. Even some say the same as alcohol to benzos, any experience with this?
Posted by erik98225 on May 13, 2006, at 11:21:21
In reply to How many drinks equivalent to .5 mg xanax?????????, posted by qbsbrown on May 13, 2006, at 4:59:04
I'm not qualified to give exact numbers, but I'd say a drink of alcohol is about as potent as 1 mg Xanax and wears off much more quickly. DUI level would be about 4-6 mg Xanax.
If your doctor actually said "alcohol is better than benzos", find a new doctor... benzos are (and are deisgned to be) alcohol without the empty calories, liver damage and other side effects.
Posted by ed_uk on May 13, 2006, at 11:34:06
In reply to How many drinks equivalent to .5 mg xanax?????????, posted by qbsbrown on May 13, 2006, at 4:59:04
Hi B
>How many drinks equivalent to .5 mg xanax?????????
They won't ever be equivalent - alcohol and Xanax are different drugs, with different mechanisms of action.
Regards
Ed
Posted by erik98225 on May 13, 2006, at 12:07:28
In reply to Re: How many drinks equivalent to .5 mg xanax????????? » qbsbrown, posted by erik98225 on May 13, 2006, at 11:21:21
> I'm not qualified to give exact numbers, but I'd say a drink of alcohol is about as potent as 1 mg Xanax and wears off much more quickly. DUI level would be about 4-6 mg Xanax.
P.S. If you're taking high doses of Xanax (over 3mg), do not drive, and expect people to think you're drunk. I was actually detained while trying to board an amtrak train after just taking 3mg Xanax -- the conductor thought I was drunk. Breathalyser showed zero alcohol in my system so I was allowed to board, but it was annoying. If you take Xanax (6 hour duration of effect), the highest dose should be taken at bedtime to avoid this problem.
Posted by Phillipa on May 13, 2006, at 12:23:50
In reply to P.S. » erik98225, posted by erik98225 on May 13, 2006, at 12:07:28
All those years drunk? Love Phillipa ps was on around 2mg of xanax but also drank 4-6 beers nightly. And most of the staff did the same. The stress. Love phillipa
Posted by qbsbrown on May 14, 2006, at 4:35:29
In reply to So I Worked, posted by Phillipa on May 13, 2006, at 12:23:50
I hear ya phillipa. I was the same, using klonopin w/ booze, oh what a mix.
I was curious Ed, is it possible that benzos can or do squash out the positive effects of SSRIs (squash serotonin etc)? I thought I had heard that somewhere.
Unfortunately with benzos, i build a quick tolerance to them, and as would suffer interdose withdrawal. They also induce depression in me, even if on an ssri.
They seem to make me quite the a-hole too, seriously, like jekyl and hyde. love the anxiety relief, but not a great trade-off for me. i'm really battling right now with benzo withdrawal, a feat i thought i'd never have, because i've come off all the drugs so easily (paxil and effexor included).
Perhaps with my past alcoholism, there is some sort of GABA link, but im wondering if it's dopamine. Alcohol would excite me, stay up all night. Same with xanax, it makes me feel just as good. Doesn't it work on dopamine as well.
Thanks for the information people.
be well,
brian
Posted by ed_uk on May 14, 2006, at 10:29:52
In reply to Hey Ed, posted by qbsbrown on May 14, 2006, at 4:35:29
Hi Brian
>I was curious Ed, is it possible that benzos can or do squash out the positive effects of SSRIs (squash serotonin etc)? I thought I had heard that somewhere.
For some people, benzos induce depression. It is possible that they may reduce the antidepressant effect of SSRIs in some cases - other people find the opposite, especially if their depression is characterised by severe anxiety.
>They seem to make me quite the a-hole too
I couldn't take a benzo regularly. They often make me feel moody and aggressive.
>Alcohol would excite me, stay up all night.
I know what you mean. I can't sleep until it wears off. I thing it's due to the dopaminergic effect.
Regards
Ed
Posted by qbsbrown on May 14, 2006, at 11:13:37
In reply to Re: Hey Ed » qbsbrown, posted by ed_uk on May 14, 2006, at 10:29:52
> For some people, benzos induce depression. It is possible that they may reduce the antidepressant effect of SSRIs in some cases - other people find the opposite, especially if their depression is characterised by severe anxiety.
I think I'm one of those depression cases. It seems to me and my docs that depression is anxiety masked for me. most find the opposite.
> I couldn't take a benzo regularly. They often make me feel moody and aggressive.
I wonder if that's the inhibitions being released.
Speaking to withdrawal, is it common to use neurontin? My doc had me on seroquel, come to find out it was making it worse.
The physical withdrawal amazes me from this point; on benzos and pre benzos, 25mg seroquel would knock me out til next week. Now during benzo WD, it takes me 200mgs just to fall asleep!! Same with neurontin, it used to take me 200mgs to crash out hard. Now, 800 doesn't even touch me.
I'm only 5 days off completly of valium, after 2 years use, and im jumping out of my skin, swearing there is no way i'm going to make it. I have never experienced this sheer horror or terror, every living second of the day as this. We're talkikng all day panic attacks. On the other hand, if i go back on benzos, depression will kick in. I don't know which is worse. You see my predicament. Plus, i think that my docs taper was extremely fast, going 20-0 in 10 days.
Regards,Brian
Posted by erik98225 on May 14, 2006, at 23:47:06
In reply to Re: Hey Ed, posted by qbsbrown on May 14, 2006, at 11:13:37
Your Valium taper is WAY too fast.
I got off Klonopin with a minimum of trouble by reducing the dose by 0.125mg (2.5mg Valium equivalent) every week. Klonopin has a much shorter half life than Valium, thus it has WORSE withdrawal symptoms than Valium.
If you reduce the Valium by 2.5mg a week you should be fine.
Posted by qbsbrown on May 15, 2006, at 0:53:45
In reply to Re: Hey Ed » qbsbrown, posted by erik98225 on May 14, 2006, at 23:47:06
Thanks Erik. I actually did cold turkey from KLono after 1.5 years, and that was unbearable hell, i made it 3 weeks. This has felt the same, but surprisingly, on day 6, i am beginning to feel better. Though i am still completely unable to sleep, i must fall back to ambien. i know that will take tapering too, and works on one of the same receptors
So for today, i'll hold off on going back on (i fear the depressiont that it induces).
Regards,
Brian
Posted by erik98225 on May 15, 2006, at 4:28:38
In reply to Re: Hey Ed, posted by qbsbrown on May 15, 2006, at 0:53:45
The standard 10mg Ambien dose is equivalent to a very small amount of Valium (3mg maybe?)
Ambien is best described as a "Seletcive" benzo; it binds to the sedating receptors but not the anti-anxiety or muscle relaxant ones. Ambien could concievably be used as a benzo withdrawal aid, but don't count on it -- it acts on SOME of the same receptors and may increase benzo withdrawl symptoms. My doc says it is safe to take it every night, it is only minimally addictive -- at worst you'll go 3 or 4 nights without sleep.
If your benzo withdrawl is really bad and the main symptom is insomnia, I'd advise taking 75mg of Benadryl (if you can tolerate it). This is an overdose of a relatively harmless drug that "may cause drowsiness", in fact it's what OTC sleeping pills usually are. Benadryl does not affect the same receptors as benzos and their newer derivatives (Ambien etc.)
I know what benzo withdrawal is like, and wish you the best of luck.
Erik
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