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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by TomG on May 11, 2006, at 10:08:29
I think need to trade my Ativan in for something that has a shorter half-life or start on Ambien or Lunesta. I'm waking up from the Ativan a little hung over with benzo 'head' if that makes any sense. I don't like the idea of Ambien or Lunesta just because I'm more comfortable using a benzo long term rather than Ambien or Lunesta. Am I wrong here?
I am having difficulty falling asleep and sleep is also patchy throughout the night.
The amisulpride is working, and its stimulating in a subtle kind of way, but it's also like my brain is now incapable of feeling sluggish or tired when it needs to be. Those were major problems as far as unwanted symptoms before the amisulpride started working.
I'm taking a little under 25mgs probably like 15-20mgs. The stuff must be powerful because it's only like a little crumb of the stuff.
So, what is a good list of some short acting benzos that would be good for just relaxation before hitting the racks?
Tom
Posted by TomG on May 11, 2006, at 11:29:08
In reply to Need A Short-Acting Benzo? - Amisulpride Insomnia, posted by TomG on May 11, 2006, at 10:08:29
I found a chart with most of them listed. Halcion looks appealing with a two hour half life. Anyone with experience with this?
Tom
Posted by B2chica on May 11, 2006, at 11:31:16
In reply to Re: Need A Short-Acting Benzo? - Amisulpride Insomnia, posted by TomG on May 11, 2006, at 11:29:08
out of curiosity where's the chart...web url?
Posted by TomG on May 11, 2006, at 11:39:01
In reply to Re: Need A Short-Acting Benzo? - Amisulpride Insom, posted by B2chica on May 11, 2006, at 11:31:16
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine
Right at the top.
Posted by B2chica on May 11, 2006, at 12:32:20
In reply to Re: Need A Short-Acting Benzo? - Amisulpride Insom » B2chica, posted by TomG on May 11, 2006, at 11:39:01
thanks...nice chart.
i was on xanax and wondered how long it lasted...i don't think it lasted but 5-6 hours with me. worked well at 2mg to help me sleep though.i don't know anything about halcion...
good luck with it.
b2c.
Posted by SLS on May 11, 2006, at 14:48:28
In reply to Need A Short-Acting Benzo? - Amisulpride Insomnia, posted by TomG on May 11, 2006, at 10:08:29
Hi.
Which do you have problems with: falling asleep or staying asleep?
Halcion is a powerful drug that will almost guarantee that you will fall asleep. However, many people experience rebound awakenings during the night as the drug level falls off.
If your problem lies more in staying asleep rather than falling asleep, Restoril might be a better way to go. I found it to produce less of a hangover than Ativan.
There was a time when I combined Halcion with Ativan. It worked well to address the total insomnia I experienced when I took Parnate.
- Scott
Posted by ed_uk on May 11, 2006, at 15:49:29
In reply to Need A Short-Acting Benzo? - Amisulpride Insomnia, posted by TomG on May 11, 2006, at 10:08:29
Hi Tom
>I'm more comfortable using a benzo long term rather than Ambien or Lunesta. Am I wrong here?
Perhaps. I would be more comfortable taking Ambien or Lunesta myself. Both drugs have a reasonably good safety record, even after several months treatment. Lunesta, unlike Ambien, is approved for long term treatment. This is mainly a matter of marketing however. I do not believe that Lunesta is any more suitable for long term treatment than Ambien. Lunesta has the disadvantage of frequently causing an unpleasant taste in the mouth. In countries where it is available, zopiclone is a better alternative to Lunesta - it is cheaper but equally safe and effective. Zopiclone and Lunesta may be more effective at maintaining sleep (ie. preventing awakenings during the night) than Ambien, whereas Ambien may be slightly better at initiating sleep. Ambien CR is more effective at maintaining sleep than regular Ambien, although I imagine it is more expensive.
>I'm waking up from the Ativan a little hung over with benzo 'head' if that makes any sense.
Both Lunesta and Ambien are less likely to cause a hangover than Ativan. Ambien is least likely to cause a hangover, but may be less effective at preventing you from waking up during the night.
>The amisulpride is working
Excellent :) It seems that very low doses are best for the treatment of non-psychotic disorders.
>So, what is a good list of some short acting benzos that would be good for just relaxation before hitting the racks?
You could try temazepam (Restoril).
>I'm taking a little under 25mgs probably like 15-20mgs.
Do you take it in the morning? Perhaps you would sleep better on 25mg than on 15-20mg?
Regards
Ed
Posted by fca on May 11, 2006, at 16:07:28
In reply to Re: Need A Short-Acting Benzo? - Amisulpride Insomnia » TomG, posted by ed_uk on May 11, 2006, at 15:49:29
Have you tried trazodone--I know it is old line and is not a benzo--but it has the advantage of very few side effects, relatively effective, no tolerance and very safe in doses for insomnia--
Posted by TomG on May 11, 2006, at 16:28:14
In reply to Re: Need A Short-Acting Benzo? - Amisulpride Insom, posted by fca on May 11, 2006, at 16:07:28
Yeah, I have some right now, but it seems to give me a nauseous feeling and a slight headache. Thanks though.
Tom
Posted by TomG on May 11, 2006, at 16:41:45
In reply to Re: Need A Short-Acting Benzo? - Amisulpride Insomnia » TomG, posted by ed_uk on May 11, 2006, at 15:49:29
>Do you take it in the morning? Perhaps you would sleep better on 25mg than on 15-20mg?
Yeah, I take it in the morning. Pill cutters suck, so I'm doing my dicing on 200mg pills with a hammer and an Xacto knife. The dosage is so iffy right now, but I know it is less than 25mgs. I really don't know if I've got the 25mg cut right. Its all a guess if you do the cutting and they don't come from the factory.
I'm in phone negotiations right now with some of your compatriots at Sanofi UK to see if we can work something out about them supplying me with whatever dosage I want directly.
They don't have the low dose 50mg tablets I want at the pharmacy I order them at right now in Canada. And, those even come from Australia through Canada to me here in the U.S. I can't find low dose amisulpride on any online pharmacy for that matter.
If they approve this its going to be a better deal all the way around.
Ed, what do you think about 7.5mgs Remeron or 1.25-2.5mgs Zyprexa to get to sleep? I thought the Zyprexa might even augment the amisulpride to make it better or even the Remeron. I say better, but I'm pleased about what it's doing by itself. What have you heard about the hangover aspect on low dose Remeron? I took it years ago, but I've forgotten.
Tom
Posted by TomG on May 11, 2006, at 16:46:38
In reply to Re: Need A Short-Acting Benzo? - Amisulpride Insom, posted by SLS on May 11, 2006, at 14:48:28
>There was a time when I combined Halcion with Ativan. It worked well to address the total insomnia I experienced when I took Parnate.
Thanks. I'll consider that combo. I have a terrible time falling asleep, reaching deep sleep, and awakening problems. The insomnia may resolve itself. It's early and many times these things sort themselves out without drug intervention.
Tom
Posted by TomG on May 11, 2006, at 17:19:15
In reply to Re: Need A Short-Acting Benzo? - Amisulpride Insomnia » TomG, posted by ed_uk on May 11, 2006, at 15:49:29
[Treatment resistant schizophrenia, residual subtype: symptom improvement after additional treatment with amisulpride]
[Article in German]
Wolf K, Veismann S, Knecht G, Naber D.
Universitatsklinikum Hamburg-Eppendorf, Klinik und Poliklinik fur Psychiatrie und Psychotherapie. k.wolf@uke.uni-hamburg.de
BACKGROUND: Therapy resistant, severe residual schizophrenia poses major challenges for the psychiatric pharmacological treatment. METHOD: We report about a 44-year old schizophrenic male who has been detained in a closed forensic ward for 10 years, following a conviction in one manslaughter case. Despite various pharmacological treatment efforts severe residual schizophrenia remained. RESULT: Adding Amisulpride to the ongoing treatment with Olanzapine achieved a noticeable improvement of symptoms, resulting in the possibility of relaxing imprisonment conditions. CONCLUSION: A combination of Amisulpride and Olanzapine seems to be effective in treating severe residual schizophrenia.
Publication Types:
Case ReportsPMID: 16389582 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Posted by Phillipa on May 11, 2006, at 18:41:00
In reply to Re: Need A Short-Acting Benzo? - Amisulpride Insomnia » ed_uk, posted by TomG on May 11, 2006, at 17:19:15
Sounds like a reasonable option. Love Phillipa
Posted by RobertDavid on May 11, 2006, at 22:07:41
In reply to Re: Need A Short-Acting Benzo? - Amisulpride Insomnia » TomG, posted by Phillipa on May 11, 2006, at 18:41:00
I was having trouble staying asleep, not falling asleep. My doctor recommended Seroquel 12.5 or 25mgs at bedtime. Any thoughts on Seroquel for insomnia?
Posted by B2chica on May 12, 2006, at 9:10:07
In reply to Re: Need A Short-Acting Benzo? - Amisulpride Insomnia, posted by RobertDavid on May 11, 2006, at 22:07:41
it knocked me out good. my biggest trouble is falling asleep and i was on 100mg of seroquel and within 1/2 hour i was knocked OUT. it was some of the best sleep i can remember.
-however, started having cognitive blunting, pretty severe so doc took me off it.
> I was having trouble staying asleep, not falling asleep. My doctor recommended Seroquel 12.5 or 25mgs at bedtime. Any thoughts on Seroquel for insomnia?
Posted by ed_uk on May 13, 2006, at 15:12:43
In reply to Re: Need A Short-Acting Benzo? - Amisulpride Insomnia » ed_uk, posted by TomG on May 11, 2006, at 16:41:45
Hi Tom
It would certainly be more convenient if you could get the 50mg Solian tabs. They are half scored - making it easy to take 25mg.
>What do you think about 7.5mgs Remeron or 1.25-2.5mgs Zyprexa to get to sleep?
I think Remeron might be better. Combining two APs is usually only necessary for those suffering from treatment-resistant psychosis eg. hallucinations, delusions, marked paranoia etc. I've taken Remeron at low doses myself. I found it very effective as a sleep aid. I did feel a bit spaced out in the morning but it wasn't too bad. I felt a bit like my head was full of cotton wool.
Regards
Ed
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