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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Paul on Long Island on May 7, 2006, at 12:36:54
One more post guys. I went on Emsam (6 mg. patch). I was on it for 13 days. In that time, while I pretty much would have expected NO discernable benefit that quickly, instead I got some heavy duty bad effects, and I'm wondering if anyone else has had them. I took my last patch last Sunday (today is Sunday also), so I can't go back on prozac until a week from tomorrow. I've always been extremely lucky with the prozac regarding the effectiveness against depression, anxiety and ocd, but foolishly tried other things because of the weight gain and the sexual side effects.
Anyway, after a couple of days on the patch, I went into a profound depression like nothing I've felt in 20 years. I also have had severe anxiety and wake up at 4 AM in total terror. The doctor had given me lithium to try to boost the effect of the emsam, but obviously that wasn't happening. When I went off the patch, she left me on the lithium 900 mgs a day along with klonopin and xanax, which leave me feeling like a zombie. The depression, anxiety and terror haven't left me yet though. I neglected to mention the really rotten crying spells too.
I guess what I want to know are two things. First off, has anyone else had this reaction to the emsam? And secondly, am I still feeling this horrible because it takes two weeks for the emsam to completely work it's way out of my system? Incidentally, on a curious note...in the evening, about an hour after having dinner, I tend to feel quite a bit better. Then it starts all over again at 4 AM. Any thoughts, suggestions, personal experiences?
Also, any of those of you who are religious at all, I would appreciate it if you would pray for me. I'm one of those people who doesn't feel worthy of God's mercy, but maybe if others prayed for me, he may grant me that mercy. Thank you and bless you all.
Paul
Posted by blueberry on May 7, 2006, at 13:21:08
In reply to EMSAM Caused Severe Depression and Anxiety?, posted by Paul on Long Island on May 7, 2006, at 12:36:54
So sorry about what ensam did to you. I'm always so scared to start a new med because that has happened to me several times.
Your pattern is eerily similar to mine. At about 3am to 4am I can tell my body and mind are getting revved up. Then I wake in total terror, unexplained free floating fear. If I am ever going to feel half decent at all during the day, it is only after dinner, but it isn't consistent.
I've never figure out what these patterns are. It even happened when I was taking mood stabilizers.
Right now I'm having the hardest time getting back on any meds because of that morning terror. Though the meds would probably lessen it in the longrun, in the short run it is worsened dramatically and it is devastating.
I was on prozac and zyprexa for a long time. I was well, but flat. I should have been satisfied, because things have been on a steep downhill run ever since. I'm trying to get back on them now, but that morning terror is increasing and it's so scary to adjust doses. I feel frozen and hopeless.
I did pray for you.
Posted by Paul on Long Island on May 7, 2006, at 13:34:35
In reply to Re: EMSAM Caused Severe Depression and Anxiety? » Paul on Long Island, posted by blueberry on May 7, 2006, at 13:21:08
> So sorry about what ensam did to you. I'm always so scared to start a new med because that has happened to me several times.
>
> Your pattern is eerily similar to mine. At about 3am to 4am I can tell my body and mind are getting revved up. Then I wake in total terror, unexplained free floating fear. If I am ever going to feel half decent at all during the day, it is only after dinner, but it isn't consistent.
>
> I've never figure out what these patterns are. It even happened when I was taking mood stabilizers.
>
> Right now I'm having the hardest time getting back on any meds because of that morning terror. Though the meds would probably lessen it in the longrun, in the short run it is worsened dramatically and it is devastating.
>
> I was on prozac and zyprexa for a long time. I was well, but flat. I should have been satisfied, because things have been on a steep downhill run ever since. I'm trying to get back on them now, but that morning terror is increasing and it's so scary to adjust doses. I feel frozen and hopeless.
>
> I did pray for you.Hey Blueberry...thanks so much for responding. My own experience in the past with the prozac was truly remarkable. I was usually on a maintenance dosage of 20 mg, but there were times when things would get a bit more difficult and the doctor would up the dosage to 40 mg, and once or twice to 60 mgs. I'm not really clear on why you're having trouble going back on the prozac. If you're already having the early morning terrors, then why not go back on the prozac. The doctor gives me xanax and klonopin to get through those times. I have to admit that .5 mgs of xanax and crawling into bed with my partner helps a lot. Unfortunately for right now, it only helps that early morning terror. It's not cutting it as far as the anxiety and depression the rest of the day. I've never tried zyprexa. What is it and what are its side effects and drawbacks? You say that on the prozac and zyprexa you feel good, but flat. I've seen a few other people mention that too. I realize everyone is different. I find for myself that once the prozac kicks in, I find myself feeling out and out good, sort of a little mini kick...not a high or anything like that, just a good feeling.
It sounds like you and I have quite a bit in common as far as symptoms. I'd really love to talk to you more directly. I don't know what the rules are on this board as far as that goes, or even what your feelings are about it. But I'd love to chat with and possibly help each other out more directly. My email address is mattonli@optonline.net. I'm also on AOL as Lirealguy2, and on yahoo messenger as superhero_destroyed. If you'd be into talking that way or even just back and forth through these threads, I'd really like that. Seems to me like support networks can only be good things.
Above all, thanks for praying for me. It means so much to me. Paul
Posted by Phillipa on May 7, 2006, at 13:45:35
In reply to Re: EMSAM Caused Severe Depression and Anxiety?, posted by Paul on Long Island on May 7, 2006, at 13:34:35
Paul I'm praying for you too. Zyprexa is a atypical antipsychotic. It is also used for anxiety. Unfortunately one of the side effects is weight gain. Althought we are all different and this might not happen to you. You're really making rethink the ENSAM. But I thought it was out of your sytem in 2-6 hours? Was I told wrong? And I know how careful you are so I guess the pdoc said to not start the prozac for two weeks. Let me know how things go and post to us all and E-mail. Blueberry is very knowledgeable. Love Phillipa
Posted by Paul on Long Island on May 7, 2006, at 14:28:46
In reply to Re: EMSAM Caused Severe Depression and Anxiety? » Paul on Long Island, posted by Phillipa on May 7, 2006, at 13:45:35
> Paul I'm praying for you too. Zyprexa is a atypical antipsychotic. It is also used for anxiety. Unfortunately one of the side effects is weight gain. Althought we are all different and this might not happen to you. You're really making rethink the ENSAM. But I thought it was out of your sytem in 2-6 hours? Was I told wrong? And I know how careful you are so I guess the pdoc said to not start the prozac for two weeks. Let me know how things go and post to us all and E-mail. Blueberry is very knowledgeable. Love Phillipa
Hey Phillipa, all I can say is I know how it affected me. Some of the people online swear by the emsam. As far as how long it's in your sytem, I think the 6 hour thing has to do with if you're having side effects, taking off the patch will begin to lower the level of the medication in your system. When I spoke to someone at BMS in the hopes that they could tell me I could start the prozac in less than two weeks, they said it takes two weeks to completely work it's way out of your system. I assume the key word here is "completely". Anyway, if you go to the Bristol Myers Squibb website, they have a contact number, which when you call, they'll give you another number for more specific information of the medications. If you're concerned, you can call them and find out. Good luck. And thanks for all your support.
Love, Paul
Posted by tygereyes on May 7, 2006, at 14:40:35
In reply to EMSAM Caused Severe Depression and Anxiety?, posted by Paul on Long Island on May 7, 2006, at 12:36:54
I have noticed that the best responses tend to be those who did not need to be withdrawn from antidepressants before initiating EMSAM treatment. I would bet that part of your bad response was due to Prozac withdrawal. I have heard that antidepressant withdrawal can last months, especially if you've been maintained on the same AD for a long period of time.
I am experiencing anxiety and severe depression w/ suicidal thoughts but this is my baseline. I believe it's a) because the medication isn't working yet and b) because I was on Parnate for 7 months and had a stellar response to the drug, and my brain isn't accustomed to the lack of Parnate just yet.
I start 9 mg/24 hr patches tomorrow or Tuesday, depending on when the pharmacy receives them. If my anxiety and depression increases with an increased dose, I will know it's the EMSAM. If not, I will know it's the lack of response to EMSAM and will keep my fingers crossed for a response, as well as (probably) residual Parnate withdrawal.
> One more post guys. I went on Emsam (6 mg. patch). I was on it for 13 days. In that time, while I pretty much would have expected NO discernable benefit that quickly, instead I got some heavy duty bad effects, and I'm wondering if anyone else has had them. I took my last patch last Sunday (today is Sunday also), so I can't go back on prozac until a week from tomorrow. I've always been extremely lucky with the prozac regarding the effectiveness against depression, anxiety and ocd, but foolishly tried other things because of the weight gain and the sexual side effects.
> Anyway, after a couple of days on the patch, I went into a profound depression like nothing I've felt in 20 years. I also have had severe anxiety and wake up at 4 AM in total terror. The doctor had given me lithium to try to boost the effect of the emsam, but obviously that wasn't happening. When I went off the patch, she left me on the lithium 900 mgs a day along with klonopin and xanax, which leave me feeling like a zombie. The depression, anxiety and terror haven't left me yet though. I neglected to mention the really rotten crying spells too.
> I guess what I want to know are two things. First off, has anyone else had this reaction to the emsam? And secondly, am I still feeling this horrible because it takes two weeks for the emsam to completely work it's way out of my system? Incidentally, on a curious note...in the evening, about an hour after having dinner, I tend to feel quite a bit better. Then it starts all over again at 4 AM. Any thoughts, suggestions, personal experiences?
> Also, any of those of you who are religious at all, I would appreciate it if you would pray for me. I'm one of those people who doesn't feel worthy of God's mercy, but maybe if others prayed for me, he may grant me that mercy. Thank you and bless you all.
> Paul
Posted by tygereyes on May 7, 2006, at 14:43:50
In reply to Re: EMSAM Caused Severe Depression and Anxiety? » Paul on Long Island, posted by Phillipa on May 7, 2006, at 13:45:35
Philipa, do not let anyone's experience scare you away from a drug. Keep in mind that everyone is different and that "case reports" hold practically zero weight in the medical literature.
Just because someone has a bad - or good - experience with a drug does not mean the drug is not for you.
One of my friends experienced an onset of psychosis at a therapeutic dose of Xanax. If she came here to tell her story, would you stop your benzo? Of course not! Because it works for YOU.
We do not yet know enough about the brain to know what will work and what will not for individuals. Keep your mind open and read the scientific studies.
> Paul I'm praying for you too. Zyprexa is a atypical antipsychotic. It is also used for anxiety. Unfortunately one of the side effects is weight gain. Althought we are all different and this might not happen to you. You're really making rethink the ENSAM. But I thought it was out of your sytem in 2-6 hours? Was I told wrong? And I know how careful you are so I guess the pdoc said to not start the prozac for two weeks. Let me know how things go and post to us all and E-mail. Blueberry is very knowledgeable. Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on May 7, 2006, at 15:01:16
In reply to Re: EMSAM Caused Severe Depression and Anxiety?, posted by tygereyes on May 7, 2006, at 14:43:50
Thanks trying to find the ENSAM link now since it was published. Posted on here last week. I just started a thread as I would like to read it again. I know from what you have written all the problems you have so an especially thanks to you for taking time to write that to me. It means a lot. Love Phillipa good luck!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by denise1966 on May 7, 2006, at 15:17:15
In reply to EMSAM Caused Severe Depression and Anxiety?, posted by Paul on Long Island on May 7, 2006, at 12:36:54
Hi Paul,
I'll say a prayer for you tonight too although I don't think God listens to me either. I think he got bored of my whinging :-)
Just a question for you, had you ever tried any of the other MAOIs before trying the Ensam patch and if so how did they make you feel. I was just wondering because I was sort of toying with the idea of trying the Ensam patch myself but felt awful (mentally) on Nardil which makes me a bit leery about trying another MAOI.
Denise
Posted by Paul on Long Island on May 7, 2006, at 18:53:20
In reply to Re: EMSAM Caused Severe Depression and Anxiety?, posted by denise1966 on May 7, 2006, at 15:17:15
> Hi Paul,
>
> I'll say a prayer for you tonight too although I don't think God listens to me either. I think he got bored of my whinging :-)
>
> Just a question for you, had you ever tried any of the other MAOIs before trying the Ensam patch and if so how did they make you feel. I was just wondering because I was sort of toying with the idea of trying the Ensam patch myself but felt awful (mentally) on Nardil which makes me a bit leery about trying another MAOI.
>
>
> DeniseDenise,
First, thank you so much for saying a prayer for me. I'm certainly not one to push religion. I think half my problem with ocd is my guilt over growing up Catholic and gay. So, I hope no one takes offense to that kind of request.
I haven't actually every tried any other MAOs. I'd had such good results with the prozac at a time when the MAOs had what many doctors considered serious drawbacks, that it never came up as a possibility. I've actually been off prozac since last October, so I don't think it was withdrawal from that that could have been the cause. However, back in January, I was on lexapro for a short period, but it seems I'd been off that for at least 4-6 weeks before attempting the emsam. But who knows? All I do know is that right now it seems like everything in my life is a mess and I'm miserable. The help you all have given me is mostly what's gotten me through this far. I can start the prozac a week from tomorrow, and I'm usually a fast responder to the prozac, so that's been what I've tried to concentrate on.
As far as you trying a different MAO if you've had a bad response on one, I'd definitely check with a doctor, but it would seem like it would be the same as the ssri's...where one doesn't work, but another does. Definitely worth exploring it. Good luck. And I'll pray for you too.
Paul
Posted by Donna Louise on May 8, 2006, at 7:39:51
In reply to EMSAM Caused Severe Depression and Anxiety?, posted by Paul on Long Island on May 7, 2006, at 12:36:54
> One more post guys. I went on Emsam (6 mg. patch). I was on it for 13 days. In that time, while I pretty much would have expected NO discernable benefit that quickly, instead I got some heavy duty bad effects, and I'm wondering if anyone else has had them. I took my last patch last Sunday (today is Sunday also), so I can't go back on prozac until a week from tomorrow. I've always been extremely lucky with the prozac regarding the effectiveness against depression, anxiety and ocd, but foolishly tried other things because of the weight gain and the sexual side effects.
> Anyway, after a couple of days on the patch, I went into a profound depression like nothing I've felt in 20 years. I also have had severe anxiety and wake up at 4 AM in total terror. The doctor had given me lithium to try to boost the effect of the emsam, but obviously that wasn't happening. When I went off the patch, she left me on the lithium 900 mgs a day along with klonopin and xanax, which leave me feeling like a zombie. The depression, anxiety and terror haven't left me yet though. I neglected to mention the really rotten crying spells too.
> I guess what I want to know are two things. First off, has anyone else had this reaction to the emsam? And secondly, am I still feeling this horrible because it takes two weeks for the emsam to completely work it's way out of my system? Incidentally, on a curious note...in the evening, about an hour after having dinner, I tend to feel quite a bit better. Then it starts all over again at 4 AM. Any thoughts, suggestions, personal experiences?
> Also, any of those of you who are religious at all, I would appreciate it if you would pray for me. I'm one of those people who doesn't feel worthy of God's mercy, but maybe if others prayed for me, he may grant me that mercy. Thank you and bless you all.
> PaulDear sweet Paul, You have my prayers although I can't be classified as religous, I think they help all the same. Makes me feel better to give them to you and I am prettty sure you can feel it from a long way off and maybe that is how that works. For another board.
Anyway, I have had nothing like you describe from the patch, but I have sure had that from sri withdrawal. I was having effexor withdrawal when I started the patch although it was technically washed out. As Ravenstorm has said, the emotional storm they can leave behind can last much much longer than the washout. I am just wondering if that was part of your horrible experience.
Whatever it was, it will pass, just hang in there and accepted all the good feelings coming your way.Donna
Posted by Donna Louise on May 8, 2006, at 8:24:53
In reply to Re: EMSAM Caused Severe Depression and Anxiety?, posted by Paul on Long Island on May 7, 2006, at 18:53:20
> > Hi Paul,
> >
> > I'll say a prayer for you tonight too although I don't think God listens to me either. I think he got bored of my whinging :-)
> >
> > Just a question for you, had you ever tried any of the other MAOIs before trying the Ensam patch and if so how did they make you feel. I was just wondering because I was sort of toying with
the idea of trying the Ensam patch myself but felt awful (mentally) on Nardil which makes me a bit leery about trying another MAOI.
> >
> >
> > Denise
>
> Denise,
> First, thank you so much for saying a prayer for me. I'm certainly not one to push religion. I think half my problem with ocd is my guilt over growing up Catholic and gay. So, I hope no one takes offense to that kind of request.
> I haven't actually every tried any other MAOs. I'd had such good results with the prozac at a time when the MAOs had what many doctors considered serious drawbacks, that it never came up as a possibility. I've actually been off prozac since last October, so I don't think it was withdrawal from that that could have been the cause. However, back in January, I was on lexapro for a short period, but it seems I'd been off that for at least 4-6 weeks before attempting the emsam. But who knows? All I do know is that right now it seems like everything in my life is a mess and I'm miserable. The help you all have given me is mostly what's gotten me through this far. I can start the prozac a week from tomorrow, and I'm usually a fast responder to the prozac, so that's been what I've tried to concentrate on.
> As far as you trying a different MAO if you've had a bad response on one, I'd definitely check with a doctor, but it would seem like it would be the same as the ssri's...where one doesn't work, but another does. Definitely worth exploring it. Good luck. And I'll pray for you too.
> PaulOoop, If I had finished reading all the posts, I would know you had been off the prozac for sometime. Oh well, there goes that theory.
Donna
Posted by ravenstorm on May 8, 2006, at 11:33:46
In reply to Re: EMSAM Caused Severe Depression and Anxiety? » Paul on Long Island, posted by Donna Louise on May 8, 2006, at 8:24:53
This is the end of the thread.
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