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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by rjlockhart on May 2, 2006, at 16:36:53
In reply to Racing thoughts ..., posted by AMD on May 2, 2006, at 11:46:22
I have racing thoughts sometimes, usally when i do i get manic.
I think it is glumate firing with some dopamine in the syspse that is not suppost to be, that makes you paranoid about thoughts.
A while i had, i used to post, that i was absolutly going insane. I get so incrediably with my thoughts nothing would stop it, i would express it, saying im going insane. It was very intense, Klonopin didnt help, i was headed for Seroquel (AP) to shut my thoughts down.
The worst is being paranoid about your own thoughts. You have to tell yourself, its fine, everything is fine, well thats what i did like 6 times.
Feeling out of control can be emotionally instable, mentally, they both are the same, i still have mental instablity, i am not on the right medication.
Zyprexa can be helpful some of this. Xanax doesnt help manic episodes, it only helps panic. But when you feeling unstable, sometimes antipsychotics help. Stimulants also, which is a degree off what where talking about, but they sometimes help with the "order" of thought, which is mainly why they are prescribed for ADD. But they are NOT for Psychosis.
Please take care
Matt
Posted by Phillipa on May 2, 2006, at 22:05:06
In reply to Re: Racing thoughts ..., posted by rjlockhart on May 2, 2006, at 16:36:53
AMD I have the same thing . I think it's increased anxiety. Trouble reading my eyes read too fast. And my thoughts get all jumbled up. I'm still taking valium. thinking of trying ENSAM. Love Phillipa
Posted by AMD on May 2, 2006, at 22:25:53
In reply to Re: Racing thoughts ..., posted by Phillipa on May 2, 2006, at 22:05:06
What is ENSAM? Been seeing a lot of posts about it.
amd
Posted by jakeman on May 2, 2006, at 22:31:15
In reply to Re: Racing thoughts ..., posted by Phillipa on May 2, 2006, at 22:05:06
Heavy drinkers often have a depletion of glutamine that can lead to anxiety and cognitive impairment. There are studies about it and Joan Mathews Larson writes a lot about it in her books.
warm regards, Jake
> AMD I have the same thing . I think it's increased anxiety. Trouble reading my eyes read too fast. And my thoughts get all jumbled up. I'm still taking valium. thinking of trying ENSAM. Love Phillipa
Posted by jakeman on May 2, 2006, at 22:36:15
In reply to Re: Racing thoughts ... » Phillipa, posted by jakeman on May 2, 2006, at 22:31:15
PS. I'm not saying that anyone here is a heavy drinker. Just that glutamine is a valuble nutrient when in the right balance. I generally take 500 mg per day as needed to help my brain power.
> Heavy drinkers often have a depletion of glutamine that can lead to anxiety and cognitive impairment. There are studies about it and Joan Mathews Larson writes a lot about it in her books.
>
> warm regards, Jake
>
>
> > AMD I have the same thing . I think it's increased anxiety. Trouble reading my eyes read too fast. And my thoughts get all jumbled up. I'm still taking valium. thinking of trying ENSAM. Love Phillipa
>
>
Posted by Phillipa on May 2, 2006, at 22:36:30
In reply to Re: Racing thoughts ... » Phillipa, posted by jakeman on May 2, 2006, at 22:31:15
ENSAM is the new patch no pill an MAOI that you put on your skin. I like the idea of now putting another pill in my body . And if bad side effects can take it off and effects gone in 2-6 hours and at the low dose no diet restrictions. Still watching as it's very expensive. Hope this helps. Love Phillipa
Posted by AMD on May 3, 2006, at 8:55:01
In reply to Re: Racing thoughts ... » Phillipa, posted by jakeman on May 2, 2006, at 22:31:15
Anything one can do to reverse this damage? Does it recover on its own?
amd
Posted by AMD on May 3, 2006, at 8:56:03
In reply to Re: Racing thoughts ..., posted by Phillipa on May 2, 2006, at 22:36:30
> ENSAM is the new patch no pill an MAOI that you put on your skin. I like the idea of now putting another pill in my body . And if bad side effects can take it off and effects gone in 2-6 hours and at the low dose no diet restrictions. Still watching as it's very expensive. Hope this helps. Love Phillipa
That's interesting. I'll do some research.
amd
Posted by AMD on May 3, 2006, at 8:57:38
In reply to Re: Racing thoughts ..., posted by jakeman on May 2, 2006, at 22:36:15
> PS. I'm not saying that anyone here is a heavy drinker. Just that glutamine is a valuble nutrient when in the right balance. I generally take 500 mg per day as needed to help my brain power.
Have you noticed a significant increase in cognitive skills (particualrly executive functioning) taking the 500 m.g.?
My understanding is that OTC glutamine (glutamate?) does not cross the blood-brain barrier and thus has little effect.
amd
Posted by curtm on May 3, 2006, at 9:40:16
In reply to Re: Racing thoughts ... » Phillipa, posted by jakeman on May 2, 2006, at 22:31:15
>> Heavy drinkers often have a depletion of glutamine that can lead to anxiety and cognitive impairment. There are studies about it and Joan Mathews Larson writes a lot about it in her books.
I am a pretty heavy drinker, 6-8 beers a day, EVERYDAY. I don't have any Joan Mathews Larson books.
Do you know why this occurs. Is it the brain's oxygen supply and/or the dehydration effect of alcohol that causes cognitive impairment? Why would it cause anxiety?
Posted by curtm on May 3, 2006, at 9:43:05
In reply to Re: Racing thoughts ... » jakeman, posted by AMD on May 3, 2006, at 8:57:38
Free glutamic acid cannot cross BBB in appreciable quantities; instead it is converted into glutamine.
Here is the link I found all this information yesterday and today:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutamate
Be sure to check out the associative links. It gets kind of complicated. Good luck.
Curt
Posted by AMD on May 3, 2006, at 9:48:51
In reply to Re: Racing thoughts ... » jakeman, posted by curtm on May 3, 2006, at 9:40:16
> I am a pretty heavy drinker, 6-8 beers a day, EVERYDAY. I don't have any Joan Mathews Larson books.
Out of curiosity, does your daily drinking ever lead to memory loss (during the drink episode) or stupor? E.g., a black out or extreme drunkenness?amd
Posted by AMD on May 3, 2006, at 9:51:54
In reply to Re: Racing thoughts ..., posted by curtm on May 3, 2006, at 9:43:05
I just visited Wiki for that information to verify my thoughts.
What effect does NMDA have on glutamic acid, and Lamictal on NMDA? I drank excessively last week, to blackout (or at least spotty memory) and I'm concerned I may have gotten a serious illness from the episode. Damage to my executive functions in particular. One week later and I'm still having trouble putting together thoughts into coherent plans.
Will this ever recover?
What role might the Lamictal have in this? I took double doses the last two days. Would this hinder concentration to this degree?
And 80 m.g. of Celexa? Any studies showing whether a high dose hinders concentration or inhibits memory formation?
Ta,
amd
> Free glutamic acid cannot cross BBB in appreciable quantities; instead it is converted into glutamine.
>
> Here is the link I found all this information yesterday and today:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutamate
>
> Be sure to check out the associative links. It gets kind of complicated. Good luck.
>
> Curt
>
Posted by curtm on May 3, 2006, at 9:53:07
In reply to Re: Racing thoughts ... » curtm, posted by AMD on May 3, 2006, at 9:48:51
> Out of curiosity, does your daily drinking ever lead to memory loss (during the drink episode) or stupor? E.g., a black out or extreme drunkenness?
>
> amd
No, but I do wake up with a slight slight headache. Better within a half hour or so.
EVERYDAY
Posted by AMD on May 3, 2006, at 9:56:43
In reply to Re: Racing thoughts ... » AMD, posted by curtm on May 3, 2006, at 9:53:07
Ah, but I am wondering if twice-monthly binging to excess (to blackout over the course of, say, six hours) will lead to permanent brain damage. Particularly one night of such behavior after a few months of abstinence.
I feel that way today. In a fog and having difficulty concentrating. I can't think; I'm not feeling creative. I'm curious whether this is actually the drugs I'm no, rather than any latent effect from last week's drinking.
(After one week, it's certainly not an acute hangover!)
amd
> > Out of curiosity, does your daily drinking ever lead to memory loss (during the drink episode) or stupor? E.g., a black out or extreme drunkenness?
> >
> > amd
>
>
> No, but I do wake up with a slight slight headache. Better within a half hour or so.
> EVERYDAY
>
>
Posted by curtm on May 3, 2006, at 10:27:30
In reply to Re: Racing thoughts ..., posted by AMD on May 3, 2006, at 9:56:43
>> What effect does NMDA have
** I see you found the confusing part,too. What is also confusing is that glutamine is the most exitatory neurotransmitter, but it is also the precursor for the most common inhibitory transmitter, GABA. They both affect the nerve activity, but in opposing ways...:?
>> I drank excessively last week, to blackout (or at least spotty memory) Will this ever recover?
** Of course it will. You probably need some heavy rehydration. Get away for a day. Go fishing. Get some fresh air.
>> And 80 m.g. of Celexa? Any studies showing whether a high dose hinders concentration or inhibits memory formation?
** I don't know about Celexa, but I noticed some short term memory loss on Wellbutrin. Strangely, I also had slight halos on lights with night vision.
>> What role might the Lamictal have in this? I took double doses the last two days. Would this hinder concentration to this degree?
** Again, double doses aren't necessary. It doesn't take immediate effect. It takes days for the levels to taper up (or down.) I don't think the Lamictal affects my concentration much. It is probably just a lack of exercise, too much drinking, and normal stress in my life.
** Oh, I forgot about this site. Good info on Lamictal. Better than the official Lamictal site:
Posted by curtm on May 3, 2006, at 10:50:51
In reply to Re: Racing thoughts ... » AMD, posted by curtm on May 3, 2006, at 10:27:30
Somethimg else interesting.
Photoreceptors in the eyes produce less glutamine when subjected to light. So does that mean what we see and what lighting we see it in affects our perception of it and our mood?
Purely hypothetical.
Posted by jakeman on May 3, 2006, at 22:46:25
In reply to Re: Racing thoughts ... » jakeman, posted by AMD on May 3, 2006, at 8:57:38
Yes. I do my share of binge drinking. It seems that taking glutamine first in the morning helps restore some of my brain function, maybe restoring what was depleted. My impression is that it does get into your system. I take it on an empty stomach. There are ways to minimize hangovers with vitamins. I guess that's a personal choice...
~Jake
> Have you noticed a significant increase in cognitive skills (particualrly executive functioning) taking the 500 m.g.?
>
> My understanding is that OTC glutamine (glutamate?) does not cross the blood-brain barrier and thus has little effect.
>
> amd
Posted by jakeman on May 4, 2006, at 22:03:23
In reply to Re: Racing thoughts ... » jakeman, posted by curtm on May 3, 2006, at 9:40:16
In my layman's opinion it's a variety of factors.
Alcohol, in exess, depletes one's system of a variety of nutrients that can throw the brain off balance and cause anxiety and depression. It's possible to counteract some of this effect by taking vitamins. Source Naturals even has a vitamin called Hangover Formula which your're supposed to take while drinking. Some of the herbalist people recommend Chorella or Kudzu.
I do think dehydration is a part of it too. Alcohol makes you pee a lot which depletes electrolytes. Oxygen is an interesting question. With alcohol being a CNS depressant it probably depresses breathing. And why do heavy drinkers get hiccups? Is is related to breathing and oxygen?
I've read anecdotal reports that people on CPAP therapy (Continuous Positive Airway Pressure) don't get hangovers.
I've also read that Winston Churchhill drank a quart of whiskey a day while he was directing the war efforts during WW II. Go figure.
some thoughts, Jake
> >> Heavy drinkers often have a depletion of glutamine that can lead to anxiety and cognitive impairment. There are studies about it and Joan Mathews Larson writes a lot about it in her books.
>
> I am a pretty heavy drinker, 6-8 beers a day, EVERYDAY. I don't have any Joan Mathews Larson books.
>
> Do you know why this occurs. Is it the brain's oxygen supply and/or the dehydration effect of alcohol that causes cognitive impairment? Why would it cause anxiety?
Posted by curtm on May 5, 2006, at 9:06:38
In reply to Re: Racing thoughts ... » curtm, posted by jakeman on May 4, 2006, at 22:03:23
From reading some of your other posts, you seem to have a lot of knowledge about different meds. You must be a pharmacist or something? Anyway your words are golden to me. Thanks
Posted by jakeman on May 5, 2006, at 22:14:49
In reply to Re: Racing thoughts ... » jakeman, posted by curtm on May 5, 2006, at 9:06:38
Thanks curtm. I like reading your posts too. No I'm just a regular guy who has been through a lot of sh*t.
~Jake
> From reading some of your other posts, you seem to have a lot of knowledge about different meds. You must be a pharmacist or something? Anyway your words are golden to me. Thanks
Posted by patrickhh on May 9, 2006, at 8:20:26
In reply to Racing thoughts ..., posted by AMD on May 2, 2006, at 11:46:22
> Folks,
>
> I've been experiencing something new lately: racing thoughts. I don't mean obsessive thoughts (although, of course, I have a history of that). I mean a feeling of not being able to focus, of my brain "running away".
>
> What would cause this? Decreased dopamine? Excessive glutamate firing?
>
> Note that nothing trigged it this time, that I can think of. No drugs, in particular.
>
> amdWhat is your diagnosis? Sounds to me more like a soft hypomanic sign. Is that the reason for the Lamictal? Many of the mood stabilizers 9including Lamictal) block glutamate and slow down racing thoughts. Even though you may not have mania, it still may be that adding on another mood stabilizer may help.
Posted by AMD on May 9, 2006, at 8:21:52
In reply to Re: Racing thoughts ...AMD, posted by patrickhh on May 9, 2006, at 8:20:26
BPII.
Racing thoughts have subsided for now, and I've a pdoc appointment tonight. (At the discount price of $500, by the way.)
amd
> > Folks,
> >
> > I've been experiencing something new lately: racing thoughts. I don't mean obsessive thoughts (although, of course, I have a history of that). I mean a feeling of not being able to focus, of my brain "running away".
> >
> > What would cause this? Decreased dopamine? Excessive glutamate firing?
> >
> > Note that nothing trigged it this time, that I can think of. No drugs, in particular.
> >
> > amd
>
> What is your diagnosis? Sounds to me more like a soft hypomanic sign. Is that the reason for the Lamictal? Many of the mood stabilizers 9including Lamictal) block glutamate and slow down racing thoughts. Even though you may not have mania, it still may be that adding on another mood stabilizer may help.
>
Posted by patrickhh on May 9, 2006, at 8:23:28
In reply to Re: Racing thoughts ..., posted by rjlockhart on May 2, 2006, at 16:36:53
> I have racing thoughts sometimes, usally when i do i get manic.
>
> I think it is glumate firing with some dopamine in the syspse that is not suppost to be, that makes you paranoid about thoughts.
>
> A while i had, i used to post, that i was absolutly going insane. I get so incrediably with my thoughts nothing would stop it, i would express it, saying im going insane. It was very intense, Klonopin didnt help, i was headed for Seroquel (AP) to shut my thoughts down.
>
> The worst is being paranoid about your own thoughts. You have to tell yourself, its fine, everything is fine, well thats what i did like 6 times.
>
> Feeling out of control can be emotionally instable, mentally, they both are the same, i still have mental instablity, i am not on the right medication.
>
> Zyprexa can be helpful some of this. Xanax doesnt help manic episodes, it only helps panic. But when you feeling unstable, sometimes antipsychotics help. Stimulants also, which is a degree off what where talking about, but they sometimes help with the "order" of thought, which is mainly why they are prescribed for ADD. But they are NOT for Psychosis.
>
> Please take care
>
> MattI agree. Adding a low dose atypical might at least help slow down the racing thoughts, until you can find something better long term. If you're afraid of TD, you might try Abilify or Geodon.
Posted by patrickhh on May 9, 2006, at 8:25:22
In reply to Re: Racing thoughts ...AMD » patrickhh, posted by AMD on May 9, 2006, at 8:21:52
> BPII.
>
> Racing thoughts have subsided for now, and I've a pdoc appointment tonight. (At the discount price of $500, by the way.)
>
> amd
>That makes sense. Have you ever tried a low dose of an atypical antipsychotic? Might be something reasonable to try. Even if you don't use it long term, you could always use it as needed when you're having racing thoughts.
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