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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jeninco on April 18, 2006, at 10:28:21
Hello all, I went to the doctor last June with major insomnia. I would maybe nod off from time to time, but no major sleep. This went on for days-so major trouble falling asleep and staying asleep. I would estimate that I'd get combined less than 2 hrs a night. I was diagnosed with being depressed/having anxiety and was given zoloft. I tried the zoloft for months but decided it wasn't helping at all with the sleep. I tried ambien for a while with great sucess but got headaches. Then we tried pamelor which also gave me headaches, and then finally remeron. Sleep on remeron has been great; I was taking 1/4 of a 15 mg pill, but over time needed more. As I increased my dosage I found that I was groggy/grouchy in the morning and hungry all day. I have binge eating disorder and can not afford to gain weight! I no longer feel anxious/depressed at all and really thought they came as a result of being unable to sleep in the first place. So I stopped taking the remeron two days ago. No anxiety at all, no depression. However, CAN'T SLEEP AT ALL. I was going to do sleep restriction, but you can't restrict your sleep when it won't come! I've set the clock for 6:00 the last two days (as opposed to 7:15 when I normally get up), but I did not sleep at all last night-only dozed for maybe 3 hrs, and the same the night before. I don't know how much longer I can take this and really don't think it's w/d from the medicine. It feels EXACTLY the same as when I went to the doctor originally. I don't know what to do-I feel exhausted but not sleepy. I feel horrible.
Posted by Crazy Horse on April 18, 2006, at 11:28:26
In reply to witdrawal remeron-INSOMNIA, posted by jeninco on April 18, 2006, at 10:28:21
> Hello all, I went to the doctor last June with major insomnia. I would maybe nod off from time to time, but no major sleep. This went on for days-so major trouble falling asleep and staying asleep. I would estimate that I'd get combined less than 2 hrs a night. I was diagnosed with being depressed/having anxiety and was given zoloft. I tried the zoloft for months but decided it wasn't helping at all with the sleep. I tried ambien for a while with great sucess but got headaches. Then we tried pamelor which also gave me headaches, and then finally remeron. Sleep on remeron has been great; I was taking 1/4 of a 15 mg pill, but over time needed more. As I increased my dosage I found that I was groggy/grouchy in the morning and hungry all day. I have binge eating disorder and can not afford to gain weight! I no longer feel anxious/depressed at all and really thought they came as a result of being unable to sleep in the first place. So I stopped taking the remeron two days ago. No anxiety at all, no depression. However, CAN'T SLEEP AT ALL. I was going to do sleep restriction, but you can't restrict your sleep when it won't come! I've set the clock for 6:00 the last two days (as opposed to 7:15 when I normally get up), but I did not sleep at all last night-only dozed for maybe 3 hrs, and the same the night before. I don't know how much longer I can take this and really don't think it's w/d from the medicine. It feels EXACTLY the same as when I went to the doctor originally. I don't know what to do-I feel exhausted but not sleepy. I feel horrible.
Sounds more like a sleep disorder than depression to me. Did they run any tests, or did your doc just start you on antidepressants without any tests at all?
If you haven't gone to a sleep clinic, this is where i would start. There are SO MANY things that could be causing your chronic insomnia..just automatically giving you AD's without first thoroughly trying to find out the real cause, i think is irresponsible. Please get tested.
Until you're able to do so, you could try melatonin, a natural product found in health food stores. Or you could try Benadryl, over the counter antihistamine that works very well for some people.
Most impt. go to a sleep specialist. Best wishes.
-Crazy Horse
Posted by jeninco on April 18, 2006, at 13:46:17
In reply to Re: witdrawal remeron-INSOMNIA » jeninco, posted by Crazy Horse on April 18, 2006, at 11:28:26
I didn't think they would be able to figure anything out based on the fact that I literally won't fall asleep. (Anytime I've been in the hospital the same exact thing happens). No, she (doc) didn't do anything except slap me with the anxiety/depressed label and give me ads. I really didn't believe that I am/was, maybe anxious due to not sleeping, but not clinically depressed for sure.
Benadryl has never worked on me unfortunately. (It has the opposite affect). But I haven't tried melatonin. I'm very interested.
Thanks for the info.
> Sounds more like a sleep disorder than depression to me. Did they run any tests, or did your doc just start you on antidepressants without any tests at all?
>
> If you haven't gone to a sleep clinic, this is where i would start. There are SO MANY things that could be causing your chronic insomnia..just automatically giving you AD's without first thoroughly trying to find out the real cause, i think is irresponsible. Please get tested.
>
> Until you're able to do so, you could try melatonin, a natural product found in health food stores. Or you could try Benadryl, over the counter antihistamine that works very well for some people.
>
> Most impt. go to a sleep specialist. Best wishes.
>
> -Crazy Horse
Posted by linkadge on April 18, 2006, at 17:25:57
In reply to Re: witdrawal remeron-INSOMNIA, posted by jeninco on April 18, 2006, at 13:46:17
You could also try b12 in the morning. Take about 50-100mcg's right in the morning, it can help regulate the circadian rhythem.
Linkadge
Posted by blueberry on April 18, 2006, at 17:49:50
In reply to witdrawal remeron-INSOMNIA, posted by jeninco on April 18, 2006, at 10:28:21
In the meantime, you might want to start taking some remeron again. Just a little.
Or better yet, try lunesta 3mg. That's good for 6 -8 hours sleep for most people, with very little if any morning grogginess. I mean, at least with lunesta, insomnia is what it is for. Unlike remeron which is for other things, but just happens to be sedating.
I think exploring where this insomnia came from in the first place is important, but until then you need some sleep to prevent deteriorating into something worse.
I'm not familiar with sleep clinics so I don't know what they have to offer in terms of diagnosis. You could ask your doctor for a full thyroid panel (TSH, T3, T4, and the 2 thyroid antibodies for autoimmune disease).
But whatever, you need some sleep. Call your doctor and just have them call your pharmacy for some lunesta. You can probably get it done without a doctor visit.
Posted by Jay on April 18, 2006, at 20:14:40
In reply to Re: witdrawal remeron-INSOMNIA, posted by linkadge on April 18, 2006, at 17:25:57
> You could also try b12 in the morning. Take about 50-100mcg's right in the morning, it can help regulate the circadian rhythem.
>
> LinkadgeB12 as well as Folic Acid made me VERY hypomanic...I would just spin off the tracks and zooooooommm! Anger, anxiety, BIG TIME! So, I'd be careful with that stuff. Others have reported similar problems with the B vitamins.
Jay
Posted by Violetskyye on April 18, 2006, at 20:48:33
In reply to Re: witdrawal remeron-INSOMNIA » linkadge, posted by Jay on April 18, 2006, at 20:14:40
I've had insomnia since I was a kid, and have been taking 5 to 10 mg. of Ambien for years, with no ill effects, and no withdrawal if I don't take it. People are afraid of sleep meds, but I find Ambien very benign. I used to lie awake all night, even as a child, until the sun came up.
Also have taken Lunesta, though it seemed less effective, and made me feel weird the next day. I'm a lawyer, can take a 10mg of Ambien at midnight, and be in court completely awake and coherent at 8:30 a.m.
I'm not saying it's the magic pill for everyone, but if you are suffering that much, it's worth discussing with your doc.
By the way, I was on Remeron 15mg a night for two years, and went off a few months ago. I felt bad for about three weeks, and feel some rebound depression and anxiety, but overall, survived getting off of it, so hang in there. :-)
Posted by johnnyj on April 19, 2006, at 8:20:57
In reply to Re: witdrawal remeron-INSOMNIA, posted by Violetskyye on April 18, 2006, at 20:48:33
Hi,
I was wondering how you were doing and if you stayed off the remeron. Good to hear you could do it. For me, I will start getting off the last 7.5mg in the next week or so. It is acutally making me more depressed and the heavy head is terrible. How did you wean and what did you do for the insomnia? Thank you
johnnyj
Posted by linkadge on April 19, 2006, at 11:44:40
In reply to Re: witdrawal remeron-INSOMNIA » linkadge, posted by Jay on April 18, 2006, at 20:14:40
Yes that is possible. Folic acid and B12 aid in the production of SAMe, which can be activating. They also factor into the production of melatonin.
So yes, caution may be necessary.
Linkadge
Posted by jeninco on April 19, 2006, at 13:12:04
In reply to Re: witdrawal remeron-INSOMNIA » Violetskyye, posted by johnnyj on April 19, 2006, at 8:20:57
Well it's day 3 and still no withdrawal symptoms from remeron. I was taking 1/2 pill (what is that? 15 mg?) and hadn't taken one since Saturday night. I slept less than 3 hrs Sunday night and Monday I just dozed (maybe 2 hrs) and felt like hell. I was going to try to see if my body could handle sleeping after 3 days without. No such luck. I seem to have no ability to fall asleep on my own, and the worst part was I didn't even feel really tired. My head was starting to hurt though.
I took ambien. I have 8 pills left from last October when I took them with zoloft pre- remeron. This will hopefully get me in with a doctor before I run out. My primary doctor will not be pleased. She thinks I need remeron. I think I just need to sleep.
Posted by ravenstorm on April 20, 2006, at 10:16:26
In reply to off remeron-INSOMNIA, posted by jeninco on April 19, 2006, at 13:12:04
Just so you know, with remeron's longer half life you probably wouldn't start feeling withdrawal syndrome at least until day 8 or so.
Posted by jeninco on April 20, 2006, at 18:43:50
In reply to Re: off remeron-INSOMNIA, posted by ravenstorm on April 20, 2006, at 10:16:26
GREAAAAAAT. Well I'm actually feeling really crappy today, this would be 5th day without remeron. I don't know if I'm reacting to the ambien or lack of remeron. I would love to take some tonight but I think I will hold on.
I just wish there was something I could take to combat the constant hunger, that's the biggest problem I had with remeron.
Posted by ravenstorm on April 22, 2006, at 9:05:29
In reply to Re: off remeron-INSOMNIA, posted by jeninco on April 20, 2006, at 18:43:50
Posted by Declan on May 3, 2006, at 14:40:15
In reply to witdrawal remeron-INSOMNIA, posted by jeninco on April 18, 2006, at 10:28:21
I was struck by the similarity betweem cyproheptadine and mirtazapine. Both were OK while I was asleep (but not when I awoke). I don't know if cyproheptadine stimulates appetite?? Would taking that instead of mirtazapine make any sense. I took half a tablet of cypro, 1mg I think.
Declan
Posted by ed_uk on May 3, 2006, at 15:58:03
In reply to Re: witdrawal remeron-INSOMNIA » jeninco, posted by Declan on May 3, 2006, at 14:40:15
Deccie!
Cyproheptadine has been used as an appetite stimulant - so it's pretty bad in the weight gain department :(
Ed
Posted by Declan on May 3, 2006, at 21:41:51
In reply to Re: witdrawal remeron-INSOMNIA » Declan, posted by ed_uk on May 3, 2006, at 15:58:03
Hey Eddy
Is that because they do the same thing to one of the 5ht receptors, or because they are both antihistamines (if they are)? I could deal with the appetite effect if the rest was OK. (I'd eat celery and salmon or something.) Or if I had Dexedrine when I woke up. I'd hate to need either of them.
Declan
Posted by ed_uk on May 4, 2006, at 14:24:12
In reply to Re: witdrawal remeron-INSOMNIA, posted by Declan on May 3, 2006, at 21:41:51
Hi D
>Is that because they do the same thing to one of the 5ht receptors, or because they are both antihistamines (if they are)?
Both :(
Ed
This is the end of the thread.
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