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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 16:09:19
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by » Doug_Saving_The_team, posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 9, 2006, at 15:30:28
Meri,
Not many people in the US take a year off before going into the work force. I hope to be in much better shape within a few months after I get off the ADs!! We shall see.
Best wishes,
Doug
Posted by ed_uk on April 9, 2006, at 17:21:17
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 14:37:04
Hi
It's ok Doug. I understand where you're coming from.
I might be on the minimum wage for the rest of my life since I dropped out of university. All my friends from school have degrees now, most from good universities. I might be able to consider going back to university myself if I wasn't so apathetic.
Regards
Ed
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 17:22:41
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by » Doug_Saving_The_team, posted by ed_uk on April 9, 2006, at 17:21:17
Thank you Ed. I sincerely hope you find a way out of the apathy and find a great passion.
Best wishes,
Doug
Posted by Phillipa on April 9, 2006, at 19:00:41
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 17:22:41
Doug look at it this way. I started on AD's l0years ago and have lost l0years and I was an RN not a CEO. I would never ever want to be one. I was happy doing what I loved and the patients loved me too. I am 60 a week ago time is running out for me . Your are young so there will be meds I'll never see. And now the medical problems to from aging. So I really would want to be in your shoes there is so much promise in the future. Look at the progress since the 50
s in general in all meds. And a hundred years a go people died at 40 from old age. I can't change my age and I wish I could but I can keep fighting and I am. There is an answer somewhere and I'm determined to find it. I have been very angry on this board the last week because of more and more medical problems but there is a cemetary behind my house so I guess thing could be worse. Love Phillipa
Posted by Racer on April 9, 2006, at 19:21:11
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 16:08:03
Doug, I'm very sorry that you feel as though your life has been ruined because you took antidepressants. And I'm very sorry that you didn't get the grades you expected in college.
I gotta tell you, part of me is feeling very resentful, because you really are priviledged. I won't go into that, though.
At this point, Doug, you kinda have to decide what you're going to do next. Until you can get your hands on a Way Back Machine, there's nothing you can do about the past four years. But there are a few years ahead of you which you can make some decisions about.
My advice on the matter would be find a good therapist. Work through your anger and resentment about not getting the grades you wanted in college. Work on understanding what happened to you, in order to move on.
Good luck.
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 19:47:40
In reply to Let's use the Way Back Machine to fix it all! » Doug_Saving_The_team, posted by Racer on April 9, 2006, at 19:21:11
Racer,
Thank you for your post. I definitely need a good therapist. It's also possible for privileged people to feel bad and to feel like failures. I have failed. These last four years have been a total FAILURE. My goal is to be a major CEO and to give a lot back in any way I can to the community and to those less fortunate. I want to get my DRIVE back so I can achieve great things and then give it back to those less fortunate.Doug
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 19:49:11
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Phillipa on April 9, 2006, at 19:00:41
Phillip, thank you for your thoughtful post. I sincerely hope you find love and happiness. I will keep your post in mind as I go through this. I am very young, but it's very hard right now in this difficult time to keep that perspective. The fact is I just don't have it, and it's been a NIGHTMARE. I have to find hope. It's hard...
Doug
Posted by JaclinHyde on April 9, 2006, at 23:32:50
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 11:56:47
Doug, I am just wondering if you have ever been checked for bipolar disorder? And I know I am going to get crucified for this but don't you think you are being a bit hard on the meds you took? Could it just be that you have to blame something for what you are going through? It takes two to tango you know and maybe you should take a good hard look at yourself and leave the meds out of the picture for a moment. I am NOT unsympathetic. I do know you are going through a lot of pain right now. All I am saying is to shift your thinking and be honest with yourself.
much love,
JH
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 23:42:00
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by JaclinHyde on April 9, 2006, at 23:32:50
JH,
With all due respect, I know you do not mean ill, but I must say that you could not possibly be more wrong in your assessment/questions. I could write out many more pages through objective measures showing exactly the impact the ADs have had on me. My conclusion is that people in general are far to easy on the ADs and should be much more considerate of the negative effects of ADs.
So in short, while I understand you are just asking and I'm sure you mean no harm by asking, but I cannot help but be offended at the thought. I have spent 4 YEARS of pain that through objective measures have been caused by the ADs. It's that simple. I think more people like me should come forward to recognize that ADs are not all fine and good for everyone. People should know!
Doug
Posted by UgottaHaveHOPE on April 10, 2006, at 0:25:28
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 23:42:00
Doug:
Again, my heart goes out to you. I am sorry you were and are in so much pain. This message board is stacked full of people in the same situation, maybe even worse.
You should be proud of yourself from graduating from college despite all of your adversity. It proved what tremendous character and inner strength you possess.
Again, my friend, you must realize there are plenty of people in Fortune 500 companies that have emotional issues. Ted Turner, founder of CNN, is bipolar, as is former CNN president Tom Johnson. Jane Pauley is bipolar. Bill Gates didn't graduate from college. I could go on and on and on.
Everyone knows life is what you make of it. Yes, maybe it will be tougher to get a job out of the starting gate. Then again, because your grades aren't as good as you like, it may make you more aggressive in pursuing a job, therefore open different doors, bigger doors.
I've never even known grades to matter in a job interview except for maybe your first job. Most of the time, it all seems about what you can do. I pray that this obstacle you see even makes you more determined. Michael
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 10, 2006, at 0:30:36
In reply to Re: Mistaken beliefs, posted by UgottaHaveHOPE on April 10, 2006, at 0:25:28
Michael,
Thank you very much for your thoughtful post. I appreciate your encouragement. I feel determined to get out of this, and that starts by getting off the handicapping ADs. My goal is to have some great news of progress by the fall and report back to this board. ADs themselves can sometimes be the problem. It's been TOO LONG. FOUR YEARS is 3.4 years TOO LONG.
Thank you again Michael. I wish you well.
Doug
Posted by Caedmon on April 10, 2006, at 0:41:00
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 23:42:00
> With all due respect, I know you do not mean ill, but I must say that you could not possibly be more wrong in your assessment/questions. I could write out many more pages through objective measures showing exactly the impact the ADs have had on me.>
What objective measures? Surely someone as bright as you understands the importance of isolating variables. I think JH was simply addressing that issue.
- C
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 10, 2006, at 0:48:49
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Caedmon on April 10, 2006, at 0:41:00
For starters, you have isolated several variables in this comparison: in high school, pre-AD I had near perfect grades. After ADs, they fell by a letter grade on average.
Posted by xbunny on April 10, 2006, at 5:38:11
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by » Doug_Saving_The_team, posted by ed_uk on April 9, 2006, at 17:21:17
Hiya Ed,
> I might be on the minimum wage for the rest of my life since I dropped out of university. All my friends from school have degrees now, most from good universities. I might be able to consider going back to university myself if I wasn't so apathetic.
Dont lose hope, I never went to university either and make better than minimum wage.
Best regards, Bunny
Posted by SLS on April 10, 2006, at 9:05:27
In reply to no uni - no job » ed_uk, posted by xbunny on April 10, 2006, at 5:38:11
> I might be on the minimum wage for the rest of my life since I dropped out of university. All my friends from school have degrees now, most from good universities. I might be able to consider going back to university myself if I wasn't so apathetic.
I have no practical answers for you at this time.I would like to say that I doubt someone as intelligent, caring, persistent, and resourceful as you are will remain impoverished for very long. You are held in high regard here, and I hope you see how such high esteem is a reflection of the esteem you should have for yourself.
- Scott
Posted by greywolf on April 10, 2006, at 10:21:26
In reply to Re: no uni - no job, posted by SLS on April 10, 2006, at 9:05:27
Doug,
You have to sit back and think about how you've gotten to where you are right now. I think that, usually, people don't wake up after 4 years and have an epiphany that their failure to reach important objectives is due solely to anti-depressants. In fact, I think it's most often the exact opposite: as we go along striving to reach our goals and it becomes harder and harder to achieve those goals because of, for instance, congitive deficits or lethargy caused by medication, we talk to our doctors to either find something without interfering impacts or to try an augmentation strategy that may put us in the position to reach our objectives.
So, while I understand your upset, I also seen the other poster's point. And honestly, I can't imagine how you could measure all the variables in this situation because there are just too many that are completely subjective. It's wonderful that you did well in high school and got into a good university. And if it's a "top 5 university in the world," I'd imagine that everyone there also did really well in high school. That competition makes college success versus your peers more difficult by orders of magnitude, and that creates an awful lot of pressure that even effective meds may not be able to adequately address.
That's why I recommended that you let the past be the past, and seize the opportunities ahead of you. You will find in the real business world that your degreee doesn't mean much in 90% of it, and in the 10% where it matters, that just gets you in the door.
I regularly do battle with people who really believe that where they went to school somehow gives them an advantage, and those people regularly discover it doesn't matter.
And I'm happy to teach them that lesson every chance I get.
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_Team on April 10, 2006, at 11:26:36
In reply to Re: no uni - no job, posted by greywolf on April 10, 2006, at 10:21:26
greywolf,
Thank you for taking the time to write that post. I know you did not intend to be offensive, but you completely misinterpreted what actually happened. I did not "wake up" suddenly after 4 years and start blaming ADs. It has been a long process of 4 years using trial and error to see what works.
With regards to teaching people a lesson that went to some top school, I'm glad you enjoy that. I could careless that I went to a top 5 school. My Dad went to a mediocre school and is the very best at his profession. It's all about what you make of it.
I'm glad it has worked for you, but I find the idea of continuing for years to continue to "augment" the medication until some magic bullet formula is reached is a trial in futility. I do not think people realize that. Fortunately for me, I have an objective measure of performance in the form of grades, but a lot of people who like me have negative cognitive side-effects on ADs do NOT understand because, although you do not mean any harms, the ideas from people like you perpetuate the myth that ADs are a cure-all. The reality is they are not for all.
The very fact people are questioning the validity of my assessment is offensive because in their responses they insert assumptions that are way off base or misunderstand what has actually happened. I do not mean to offend anyone, but perhaps those people either (1) have had a great experience on ADs and thus are unable to consider the possibility that others could not be right for ADs or (2) have had a poor experience on ADs, but live in denial that those side-effects do not exist.
Greywolf, I know you mean well, but your injection of your own assumptions (read guesses) about my situation are way off base and frankly offensive to me and the SUFFERING I have had to endure while on ADs. In that post, you should have been more considerate of your choice of words.
Doug
Posted by bipolarspectrum on April 10, 2006, at 12:56:02
In reply to Re: no uni - no job, posted by Doug_Saving_The_Team on April 10, 2006, at 11:26:36
Hello again Doug,
I propose that you take time away from school... a minimum of 6 months, more favourably a year.... go find a great pdoc, not a good one, a great one... and work with him/her for that time... and your goal mabye to return to school and/or enter the working world after this period... i advocate this plan because I followed it... I learned I have bipolar disorder and am finally being treated with proper medication (not ssris)... My goal is to return to school this sept, be it med school or back to undergrad.... the advantages of a break is that it allows you to focus 100% on ourself... and dont think its boring, I'm doing things I never thought I'd be able to do, like salsa dance and read.... you may think its more wasted time, but i see it as an investment in your future!
bps
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_Team on April 10, 2006, at 13:05:02
In reply to I propose a plan, posted by bipolarspectrum on April 10, 2006, at 12:56:02
bps,
Thank you for your ideas. My concern with taking many months off is that I could sink into a depression naturally from not working and being cooped up in my house. I do intend to break for at least a month, and perhaps two months, to go off these evil ADs and essentially recover. I plan to do a lot of reading and studying subjects I love but for the last four years have been cognitively impaired too much by the ADs to learn -- these includes finance, accounting and statistics. I want OFF these ADs NOW... next month will have to do.
Posted by greywolf on April 10, 2006, at 13:08:26
In reply to Meds HAVE RUINED MY 4 YEARS IN COLLEGE, and CAREER, posted by Doug_Saving_The_Team on April 8, 2006, at 20:50:57
Doug,
Please accept my apologies if, in fact, I offended you. If I misinterpreted your repeated statements that antidepressants are solely responsible for ruining your experience at one of the top five universities in the world, and exposed you to the embarrassment of having to go to a state school instead of not getting a great job as a Wall Street investment banker or equity manager, that's my fault.
And none of my posts in this thread or in any other have EVER extolled ADs as a cure-all. In fact, the vast majority of my posts have asked for help from the good people here in finding yet another option. You see, I've been on almost every AD you can name (plus a few bipolar meds you probably can't), and the only thing left to me according to two psychiatrists and my GP is ECT. Right now, I'm merely maintaining on Depakote while I wait to get in to see a new psychiatrist to discuss the possibility of options other than ECT.
Basically, I've learned to expect very little of meds over many years of battering my body with them. With each new one, I just hope it will keep me getting my job done each day so that my family won't suffer with me. It's been seven years since I missed any significant time from work due to my mental illness, but every day has been a battle from the moment I awake until I finally fall asleep (if I do).
As to my comment about kicking the butts of people who are fixated on where they got their degrees and how highly their schools ranked, it was intended to encourage you to disregard concerns like that because they are not relevant in day-to-day business. Sounds like your dad understands that.
What's important is what you make of yourself, especially when you must overcome adversity not of your own making to do it. If that means going to a state school when your friends do it solely through private college, so what? The point is doing your best wherever you find yourself, and not beating yourself up over things you can't control.
That's the only real message I'm trying to convey, and I hope I didn't hurt your feelings doing it.
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_Team on April 10, 2006, at 13:12:34
In reply to Re: Meds HAVE RUINED MY 4 YEARS IN COLLEGE, and CAREER, posted by greywolf on April 10, 2006, at 13:08:26
greywolf,
Thank you very much for your particularly thoughtful post. I really appreciate your consideration for my feelings and perspective. I will keep your post close to mind as I fight through this hard time. I did not mean to cause grief for you, and I hope I did not. I hope for the best for you.
Best wishes,
Doug
Posted by JaclinHyde on April 10, 2006, at 13:15:34
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 23:42:00
I really do apologize if you were hurt by what I said. I think most people on this board would agree that I never attack people or speak ill of them. I just thought that maybe you never considered anything but the drugs to be at fault. But it is obvious that you have so please forgive my statement.
Hope you find peoce,
JH
> JH,
>
> With all due respect, I know you do not mean ill, but I must say that you could not possibly be more wrong in your assessment/questions. I could write out many more pages through objective measures showing exactly the impact the ADs have had on me. My conclusion is that people in general are far to easy on the ADs and should be much more considerate of the negative effects of ADs.
>
> So in short, while I understand you are just asking and I'm sure you mean no harm by asking, but I cannot help but be offended at the thought. I have spent 4 YEARS of pain that through objective measures have been caused by the ADs. It's that simple. I think more people like me should come forward to recognize that ADs are not all fine and good for everyone. People should know!
>
> Doug
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_Team on April 10, 2006, at 13:17:47
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by JaclinHyde on April 10, 2006, at 13:15:34
JH,
Thank you for your post. Thank you for your understanding. I apologize for the miscommunication. I did not mean to put you aback. I wish for only the best for you.
Best wishes,
Doug
Posted by Caedmon on April 10, 2006, at 14:06:11
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 10, 2006, at 0:48:49
> For starters, you have isolated several variables in this comparison: in high school, pre-AD I had near perfect grades. After ADs, they fell by a letter grade on average.>
So, post hoc ergo propter hoc?
That isn't an isolation in variables; senior year is typically hardest. You still managed to graduate with good grades. I'm also not sure that "a letter grade on average" is necessarily statistically significant in your case study or if it can be adequately explained by ADs alone, rather than the underlying depression that the meds were designed to treat. (Depression can cause cognitive problems as well.)
I also fail to see how you can quantify your college experience if you have not been off ADs, as a comparison.
You sound tremendously determined to blame your antidepressants for your troubles, even though no one forced you to take them, and you haven't a point of comparison. Is it possible that this is a convenient "out" for you? Or that perhaps your anger is in some ways justified, but in other ways it's exaggerated? I would merely question, politely, the assumptions you are making - and questioning them in the interests of mutual understanding and support.
Lastly, you may wish to revise to a degree your writing punctuation. When a person capitalizes words, it gives the impression that the capitalized word is either very emphatically said, or perhaps yelled. By capitalizing words frequently, it gives me the impression that you are yelling. That might have actually been your intention, or it might not have, I'm merely saying that so that you understand how I'm percieving your writings.
I have not read anyone say that ADs were a "cure-all" neither has anyone implied it. It has been frequently mentioned, on this thread and others, the many potential downsides to antidepressant therapy. If someone is saying such a thing, I sure don't see it. <shrug>
- C
Posted by ed_uk on April 10, 2006, at 14:12:09
In reply to no uni - no job » ed_uk, posted by xbunny on April 10, 2006, at 5:38:11
Thanks Bunny :D I felt better when I read your message. I just want enough money to live on :)
Eddy
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