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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by ed_uk on April 5, 2006, at 14:56:02
In reply to Re: What do you take for insomnia? » ed_uk, posted by MARTY on April 5, 2006, at 14:38:41
Hi
Starnoc is the Canadian brand name for zaleplon. Zaleplon is known as Sonata in the UK and the US.
Ed
Posted by john berk on April 5, 2006, at 16:37:23
In reply to Re: What do you take for insomnia? » MARTY, posted by ed_uk on April 5, 2006, at 14:56:02
Hi tyler, i take 1 mg. of klonopin an hour after i get home from work, [i work part-time evenings]around 10, then 10 mgs. of ambien a half hour before bedtime, works well. sometimes i use trytophan instead of the klonopin, 1 500 mg. capsule, but that is tricky with high dose ad's.
i'm off prozac now, so i don't worry about serotonin syndrome with tryptophan...john
Posted by Maxime on April 5, 2006, at 20:04:57
In reply to Re: What do you take for insomnia? » ed_uk, posted by MARTY on April 5, 2006, at 14:38:41
Starnoc isn't available in Canada anymore. It was for about 4 months. I used it when I was in the hospital in the '90s. I liked it.
Maxime
> Hi Ed, How are you ?
>
> Imovane seems to help me but I just CAN'T stand the bad taste. In fact I'm sensitive enough to this taste that it often was waking me up! and so I had to go drink something with a lot of sugars.
>
> I don't know about Starnoc. Guess I have some googling to do. Maybe you can introduce me to it.
>
> Marty
>
>
> > Hi Marty
> >
> > How do you react to Imovane and Starnoc?
> >
> > Ed
>
>
Posted by Phillipa on April 5, 2006, at 20:18:05
In reply to Re: What do you take for insomnia? » TylerJ, posted by MARTY on April 5, 2006, at 12:10:44
Marty I took chloral hydrate too. But whatever you do do not drink alchohol with it it then is a Mickey Finn. Love Phillipa
Posted by MARTY on April 5, 2006, at 20:51:29
In reply to Re: What do you take for insomnia? » MARTY, posted by ed_uk on April 5, 2006, at 14:56:02
Ahh didn't know Sonata was in Canada. Thanks
Marty
> Hi
>
> Starnoc is the Canadian brand name for zaleplon. Zaleplon is known as Sonata in the UK and the US.
>
> Ed
Posted by ravenstorm on April 6, 2006, at 8:31:56
In reply to Re: What do you take for insomnia?, posted by MARTY on April 5, 2006, at 20:51:29
has anyone tried rozerem?
Posted by ed_uk on April 6, 2006, at 15:08:16
In reply to Re: What do you take for insomnia? » MARTY, posted by Maxime on April 5, 2006, at 20:04:57
Hi Maxie
I think you're thinking of zolpidem (Stilnox, Ambien). I don't know why, but zolpidem is not marketed in Canada.
Starnoc is the brand name for zaleplon, not zolpidem. As far as I know, Starnoc is still available in Canada. It is listed here....
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hpb/drugs-dpd/
Love
Ed xx
Posted by yxibow on April 7, 2006, at 2:41:22
In reply to Re: What do you take for insomnia? » Maxime, posted by ed_uk on April 6, 2006, at 15:08:16
Well, I'm a lifelong insomniac as is my mom.
Chloral Hydrate is a mickey finn even before it is mixed with anything, its a cheap way to go to sleep from what I've heard and probably will be phased out anyhow as it uses chlorocarbons to manufacture. But I can't speak for my own personal use, I haven't tried it and I am scared of a compound that puts you out that fast.
Dalmane (flurazepam) is the most scariest hypnotic benzodiazepine I've ever tried. It sucks you under and you feel like you're dying.
Restoril (temazepam) is a much more gentle "Dalmane", but you can't use either of the above long term -- well maybe you can, but hypnotic benzodiazepines are easier to acclimate to.
Trazodone I can say from my own personal experience is a psychiatrist's disdain from giving a depressed patient anything remotely benzodiazepine related. It is also a horrible, hypotensive (dizzy) way to go to sleep. It causes priapisms (unwanted erections in the male, and rarely some syndrome in females I think, but I dont recall) more than the black box would tell you. And it is just as bad of an acclimator as short term benzodiazepines. Before long the 50mg becomes 150mg and soon you're on an adult antidepressant dose of Trazodone, with mCPP in your system. If you're at all borderline psychotic or have symptoms mimicing that, mCPP, the metabolite is contraindicated.
Doxepin (Sinequan) is also a nasty way to go to sleep unless you acclimate to it. I took it over a weekend as a substitute in college for priapism induced by Trazodone. I was in a daze for 18 hours. I went back to Trazodone despite the problems. I once drank cider and thought it was out of my system. Took Trazodone and woke up on my friend's bathroom floor 2 hours later, apparently I guess in an attempt to use the loo.
So, those two definately do not mix.
Serzone does nothing for sleep like Trazodone and can damage your liver.
Sonata did nothing for me... it is a weak compound and probably would have to be dosed considerably above its PI. Some people report changes in their color vision.
Lunesta at its highest 3mg did do something for me but that shiny crisp metallic taste is something else. Mine just indicated I was going to fall asleep -- some people claim the lovely nickel mouth lasts until the morning after. I'm not quite sure why we went back to Ambien, either really would work I guess.
I now currently take 20mg of Ambien. As tested with Ambien CR, Ambien can be dosed long term, depending on the patient. But the Ambien mostly is an adjunctive to keep me asleep. The Seroquel I take, in a large dose for non-psychotic reasons is what really actually puts me to sleep. And it does similarly have an effect of hypotension, so I have to hit the hay before I faint.
Posted by Caedmon on April 7, 2006, at 15:40:05
In reply to Re: What do you take for insomnia?, posted by yxibow on April 7, 2006, at 2:41:22
My experiences:
trazodone - a little TOO effective, and does end up causing tolerance
Seroquel - yuck, way too sedating and I feel terrible the next day
amitriptyline - my personal choice, or was anyway, before I considered going onto Parnate
Ambien - useless
Lunesta - also useless, and unreasonably costly
benzodiazepines - useless and tolerance-forming
melatonin - surprisingly effective; cheap, tooSince I'll be starting up on Parnate I have to reconsider what hypnotics I'll use. My standby amitriptyline is out, so I'm thinking of something new. The Z-drugs w/ benzo-like action (e.g. Lunesta) are basically useless and way too expensive.
I'm going to ask for Neurontin (gabapentin). Anyone take gabapentin for insomnia? It has a short halflife, few side effects, and it's usually pretty sedating. Good things to have in a hypnotic.
Also, is melatonin contraindicated with an MAOI? If not, I may just stick to that.
- C
Posted by TylerJ on April 7, 2006, at 18:07:14
In reply to Re: What do you take for insomnia?, posted by Caedmon on April 7, 2006, at 15:40:05
> My experiences:
>
> trazodone - a little TOO effective, and does end up causing tolerance
> Seroquel - yuck, way too sedating and I feel terrible the next day
> amitriptyline - my personal choice, or was anyway, before I considered going onto Parnate
> Ambien - useless
> Lunesta - also useless, and unreasonably costly
> benzodiazepines - useless and tolerance-forming
> melatonin - surprisingly effective; cheap, too
>
> Since I'll be starting up on Parnate I have to reconsider what hypnotics I'll use. My standby amitriptyline is out, so I'm thinking of something new. The Z-drugs w/ benzo-like action (e.g. Lunesta) are basically useless and way too expensive.
>
> I'm going to ask for Neurontin (gabapentin). Anyone take gabapentin for insomnia? It has a short halflife, few side effects, and it's usually pretty sedating. Good things to have in a hypnotic.
>
> Also, is melatonin contraindicated with an MAOI? If not, I may just stick to that.
>
> - CYea, Ambien isn't working for me at all. So I'm back on Trazodone 150-200 a night. Let me know what you find out about melatonin, I'd be interested in trying it. Thanks.
Tyler
Posted by Caedmon on April 7, 2006, at 20:20:03
In reply to Re: What do you take for insomnia? » Caedmon, posted by TylerJ on April 7, 2006, at 18:07:14
Oh, I wanted to add, that my experiences re: hypnotics are *mine*, and not applicable to everybody. For example, some people really do well on some of the drugs that I responded poorly to. I know that's kind of a truism w/ psych meds, I just wanted to couch my post in more subjective terms though.
Hey Tyler,
I haven't found any info on melatonin being contraindicated w/ MAOIs. I read one website saying that MAOIs can potentiate melatonin. Still interested if anyone knows.
- C
Posted by Paulbwell on April 7, 2006, at 21:53:45
In reply to Re: What do you take for insomnia?, posted by Caedmon on April 7, 2006, at 20:20:03
> Oh, I wanted to add, that my experiences re: hypnotics are *mine*, and not applicable to everybody. For example, some people really do well on some of the drugs that I responded poorly to. I know that's kind of a truism w/ psych meds, I just wanted to couch my post in more subjective terms though.
>
> Hey Tyler,
>AME SANS VIE finds Seconal, and Tuinal- (Amytal+Secobarbital), (Barbiturates) very effective, and many here have said that that Nembutal, (no longer made0 gave the best sleep)-BUT hese are HEAVY duty measures!
Cheers
Posted by MARTY on April 8, 2006, at 2:41:32
In reply to Re: What do you take for insomnia?, posted by Caedmon on April 7, 2006, at 15:40:05
Hi Caedmon,If you are willing to try Neurontin I would recommend you Lyrica which is a new med based on Neurontin. Trust me; it is FAR more sedating than Neurontin. Sleep is very good and feel refresh the next day. Neurontin isn't very sedative unless you try it at high dose which you may find it taxing on memory and mental alertness.
Marty> My experiences:
>
> trazodone - a little TOO effective, and does end up causing tolerance
> Seroquel - yuck, way too sedating and I feel terrible the next day
> amitriptyline - my personal choice, or was anyway, before I considered going onto Parnate
> Ambien - useless
> Lunesta - also useless, and unreasonably costly
> benzodiazepines - useless and tolerance-forming
> melatonin - surprisingly effective; cheap, too
>
> Since I'll be starting up on Parnate I have to reconsider what hypnotics I'll use. My standby amitriptyline is out, so I'm thinking of something new. The Z-drugs w/ benzo-like action (e.g. Lunesta) are basically useless and way too expensive.
>
> I'm going to ask for Neurontin (gabapentin). Anyone take gabapentin for insomnia? It has a short halflife, few side effects, and it's usually pretty sedating. Good things to have in a hypnotic.
>
> Also, is melatonin contraindicated with an MAOI? If not, I may just stick to that.
>
> - C
Posted by yxibow on April 8, 2006, at 4:24:59
In reply to Re: What do you take for insomnia? » Caedmon, posted by MARTY on April 8, 2006, at 2:41:32
One should be cautious about melatonin in depression -- it is a hormone and can interfere in some situations. If it works for you, fine, but there can be a contraindication, which I assume would be a possibility in Rozerem as well although perhaps not as strong.
Posted by ravenstorm on April 8, 2006, at 9:16:49
In reply to Re: What do you take for insomnia?, posted by yxibow on April 8, 2006, at 4:24:59
Per the above post. I just read the rozerem PI sheet and it says it can affect both testosterone (lowers it) and prolactin levels.
I have enough hormone problems (twice the amount of progesterone of a normal woman) without throwing that into the mix!
Bummer! Also concerned about the possibility of anything to do with melatonin making depression worse. Wish there was something non-addictive for sleep that I could tolerate.
Posted by MARTY on April 8, 2006, at 22:42:57
In reply to Re: What do you take for insomnia?, posted by Paulbwell on April 7, 2006, at 21:53:45
Here's a good one. Last month my Pdoc prescribed me 3 things to try to relieve my insomnia cause by Nardil (MAOI). I didn't see what she prescribed my until I arrived to my pharmacist with my prescription. One of the 3 things was TRYPTOPHAN, 1000mg at sleep time.The joke? Tryptophan is dangerous with MAOI and when tried (when benefit > risks, which wasn't the case since we didn't try other things as this time) it's recommended to start at 100mg and titrate very slowly.
My pharmacist called here in front of me and ask WHAT THE F*CK WAS WITH HER (in a professional way) well she had to explain my Pdoc what was the problem; MY PDOC WASN'T AWARE OF THE INCOMPATIBILITY OF TRYPTOPHAN AND MAOI AT ALL. And worst, she ask my pharmacist to let it pass anyway, that she would take 100% responsability.. in fact she had, from what I heard, to repeat her request 3 times to my pharmacist. My pharmacist was visibly in despair and upset at my Pdoc.. She didn't look to know what to tell me. I've resolved the problem myself in telling her that I was refusing this treatment; that I wasn't going to touch that bottle. She laugh nervously and told me she had taken the decision to go against the request of my Pdoc and didn't had the intention to give me the Tryptophan anyway.
"1g of precaution is worth 100g of medecines" ?
I like my PDoc because she gives me EVERYTHING I ask here.. but I fear she could hurt less knowledgeable patients who could have less talented pharmacist..
Anyway.. hope my post help you to put you to sleep ;) "Read 1 hours before bed"
Marty
Posted by tizza on April 9, 2006, at 4:34:19
In reply to Re: What do you take for insomnia? » Paulbwell, posted by MARTY on April 8, 2006, at 22:42:57
You can't get real melatonin in Australia, it's illegal here for some really stupid reason and I really want to try it. You can get it in a really weak homeopathic formulation that doesn't really do much but that's it. Frustrated Paul
Posted by TylerJ on April 9, 2006, at 9:14:00
In reply to Re: What do you take for insomnia? » Paulbwell, posted by MARTY on April 8, 2006, at 22:42:57
>
> Here's a good one. Last month my Pdoc prescribed me 3 things to try to relieve my insomnia cause by Nardil (MAOI). I didn't see what she prescribed my until I arrived to my pharmacist with my prescription. One of the 3 things was TRYPTOPHAN, 1000mg at sleep time.
>
> The joke? Tryptophan is dangerous with MAOI and when tried (when benefit > risks, which wasn't the case since we didn't try other things as this time) it's recommended to start at 100mg and titrate very slowly.
>
> My pharmacist called here in front of me and ask WHAT THE F*CK WAS WITH HER (in a professional way) well she had to explain my Pdoc what was the problem; MY PDOC WASN'T AWARE OF THE INCOMPATIBILITY OF TRYPTOPHAN AND MAOI AT ALL. And worst, she ask my pharmacist to let it pass anyway, that she would take 100% responsability.. in fact she had, from what I heard, to repeat her request 3 times to my pharmacist. My pharmacist was visibly in despair and upset at my Pdoc.. She didn't look to know what to tell me. I've resolved the problem myself in telling her that I was refusing this treatment; that I wasn't going to touch that bottle. She laugh nervously and told me she had taken the decision to go against the request of my Pdoc and didn't had the intention to give me the Tryptophan anyway.
>
> "1g of precaution is worth 100g of medecines" ?
>
> I like my PDoc because she gives me EVERYTHING I ask here.. but I fear she could hurt less knowledgeable patients who could have less talented pharmacist..
>
> Anyway.. hope my post help you to put you to sleep ;) "Read 1 hours before bed"
>
> Marty
>
>Wow, that's kind of scary-but funny as hell the way you wrote it! :) Maybe your pdoc's on a little too much of something herself! :) "Here, just take this and this and this, and oh yea, let's add a little xanax in there, and definitely some good ol' dexedrine." LOL
Tyler
Posted by Maxime on April 9, 2006, at 10:59:50
In reply to Re: What do you take for insomnia? » MARTY, posted by Maxime on April 5, 2006, at 20:04:57
I was wrong. StarNoc (Sonata) is available once again in Canada. My apologies.
To my fellow Canadians. If you ever want to find out if a med is available go to this site right here on Health Canada.
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/prodpharma/databasdon/dpd_index_e.html
Maxime
Posted by ed_uk on April 9, 2006, at 12:44:26
In reply to Re: What do you take for insomnia?, posted by tizza on April 9, 2006, at 4:34:19
Same in the UK RE melatonin. A lot of medical things seem the same in Australia and the UK. I think our 'authorities' have been conferring again.
Ed x
Posted by MARTY on April 9, 2006, at 13:06:00
In reply to Re: What do you take for insomnia? » MARTY, posted by TylerJ on April 9, 2006, at 9:14:00
> Wow, that's kind of scary-but funny as hell the way you wrote it! :) Maybe your pdoc's on a little too much of something herself! :)
Maybe? What would you do if you were a Pdoc yourself ? ;) Okay, maybe everyone is not as 'crazy meds' loving as us :P
But sometimes I feel like she use me as a guinea pig to experiment what she would like to try next LOL
"Tryptophan 100mg would be nice to add to my easter familly party cocktail next sunday, but let's try it first on Marty at 1 gram.. 10 times my target dose should be enough for my little comfortable safe zone."
WHAT'S NEXT ? 150mg TYRAMINE BID ?
I love that girlMarty
Posted by TylerJ on April 9, 2006, at 14:25:05
In reply to Re: What do you take for insomnia? » TylerJ, posted by MARTY on April 9, 2006, at 13:06:00
>
>
>
>
> > Wow, that's kind of scary-but funny as hell the way you wrote it! :) Maybe your pdoc's on a little too much of something herself! :)
>
> Maybe? What would you do if you were a Pdoc yourself ? ;) Okay, maybe everyone is not as 'crazy meds' loving as us :P
>
> But sometimes I feel like she use me as a guinea pig to experiment what she would like to try next LOL
>
> "Tryptophan 100mg would be nice to add to my easter familly party cocktail next sunday, but let's try it first on Marty at 1 gram.. 10 times my target dose should be enough for my little comfortable safe zone."
>
> WHAT'S NEXT ? 150mg TYRAMINE BID ?
> I love that girl
>
> Marty
>LOL...I really did laugh out loud! :) You crack me up Marty.
I picture your pdoc as a little lady, not too old, not too bright. And when you say, "How about if we try this," she says, "yes, good idea Marty, and we could also try this too...I don't THINK it'll be a problem, although I'm not completely sure, oh, what the hell". And when she sees you the next visit she says, "Now what are you taking Marty"? She has forgotten completely. And when you tell her, she's like...Hmmmm, now why did we put you on that? Oh, it's good to laugh. Thanks for making me laugh Marty! :)Tyler
Posted by MARTY on April 9, 2006, at 16:12:22
In reply to Re: What do you take for insomnia? » MARTY, posted by TylerJ on April 9, 2006, at 14:25:05
> LOL...I really did laugh out loud! :) You crack me up Marty.
:P Don't worry I'm sure I have more fun writing those kind of post that you have reading it. It's so therapeutic to laugh at those serious matters with (the rare) people who also knows and live in that "crazy world" with Pdoc, meds etc..
> I picture your pdoc as a little lady, not too old, not too bright. And when you say, "How about if we try this," she says, "yes, good idea Marty, and we could also try this too...I don't THINK it'll be a problem, although I'm not completely sure, oh, what the hell". And when she sees you the next visit she says, "Now what are you taking Marty"? She has forgotten completely. And when you tell her, she's like...Hmmmm, now why did we put you on that?
YOU'RE SO RIGHT ABOUT THAT ! scares me! LOL Young, inexperienced and more the 'hard studying' kind than the high IQ & passioned type. Just to say as much you got it; As a software engineer I'm sure I could code a software in 15 minutes that would do her job as well as her:
Hi <PATIENT NAME>.
How are you with your <MEMORY ERROR> cocktail ? Ooh sorry to hear.Well maybe we can add <RANDOM MED in Database> at <RANDOM DOSE X mg: Where X is 1/3 times wrong and/or Dangerous IF year PATIENT/KILLED Ratio not yet reached>.
Are you OK with that Marty OR ...?
<OK>
<ELSE AT WILL>
<ALREADY TAKING IT>
<NO THANKS, NOT CURRENTLY SUICIDAL>
<UH? NOT EVEN AVAILABLE IN CANADA>
Answer: _______Thank you <VICTIM NAME>.
Please put a "I agree" check in the box beneath the "LEGAL DISCHARGE" text.PRINTING BLOTTERS ... <ERROR!!!>
Please switch your R/G/B ink cartridge with your Serotonin/Dopamine/Norepinephrine pharmaceutical cartridge so we can apply the "trillion money making, moronic and brain damaging cathecolamines deficiency theory" ...
God, I wish there would have a lot of pdoc reading this post so I could imagine most of them being sure about being the Pdoc described above ... seeking their patients folders looking for a "MARTY, X".
Marty
Posted by TylerJ on April 9, 2006, at 18:12:11
In reply to Re: What do you take for insomnia? » TylerJ, posted by MARTY on April 9, 2006, at 16:12:22
> > LOL...I really did laugh out loud! :) You crack me up Marty.
>
> :P Don't worry I'm sure I have more fun writing those kind of post that you have reading it. It's so therapeutic to laugh at those serious matters with (the rare) people who also knows and live in that "crazy world" with Pdoc, meds etc..
>
> > I picture your pdoc as a little lady, not too old, not too bright. And when you say, "How about if we try this," she says, "yes, good idea Marty, and we could also try this too...I don't THINK it'll be a problem, although I'm not completely sure, oh, what the hell". And when she sees you the next visit she says, "Now what are you taking Marty"? She has forgotten completely. And when you tell her, she's like...Hmmmm, now why did we put you on that?
>
> YOU'RE SO RIGHT ABOUT THAT ! scares me! LOL Young, inexperienced and more the 'hard studying' kind than the high IQ & passioned type. Just to say as much you got it; As a software engineer I'm sure I could code a software in 15 minutes that would do her job as well as her:
>
> Hi <PATIENT NAME>.
> How are you with your <MEMORY ERROR> cocktail ? Ooh sorry to hear.
>
> Well maybe we can add <RANDOM MED in Database> at <RANDOM DOSE X mg: Where X is 1/3 times wrong and/or Dangerous IF year PATIENT/KILLED Ratio not yet reached>.
>
> Are you OK with that Marty OR ...?
> <OK>
> <ELSE AT WILL>
> <ALREADY TAKING IT>
> <NO THANKS, NOT CURRENTLY SUICIDAL>
> <UH? NOT EVEN AVAILABLE IN CANADA>
> Answer: _______
>
> Thank you <VICTIM NAME>.
> Please put a "I agree" check in the box beneath the "LEGAL DISCHARGE" text.
>
> PRINTING BLOTTERS ... <ERROR!!!>
> Please switch your R/G/B ink cartridge with your Serotonin/Dopamine/Norepinephrine pharmaceutical cartridge so we can apply the "trillion money making, moronic and brain damaging cathecolamines deficiency theory" ...
>
>
> God, I wish there would have a lot of pdoc reading this post so I could imagine most of them being sure about being the Pdoc described above ... seeking their patients folders looking for a "MARTY, X".
>
>
> Marty
>
>LOL..you're crazy dude, aint it fun to laugh at our problems/docs, etc.? Beats the hell out of being too serious! :)
Tyler
Posted by MARTY on April 9, 2006, at 20:51:42
In reply to Re: What do you take for insomnia? » MARTY, posted by TylerJ on April 9, 2006, at 18:12:11
> LOL..you're crazy dude
That's what my Pdoc says, so we can't be sure.> aint it fun to laugh at our problems/docs, etc.?
yeah, replace the orgasms I can't get 'cause of my pdoc meds. ;)> Beats the hell out of being too serious! :)
Yep, it's often fun to mix serious matter and the laughs that is deserve..Marty
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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