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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by willyee on February 5, 2006, at 20:33:32
Greetings all nice to be back.Anyway wanted to share a few things,first most know im on a ongoing mission to find a parnate combo as i have no desire to replace any other current med as a primary one,and i have thought this through.
I had what seemed like a fair combo down,but A it required just too many various pills.....B Some of the pills it required i would never be able to ensure i could get..........C It really just wasnt that helpful.So as i stopped it and went back to JUST parnate i felti was slipping in quick sand FAST,VERY VERY FAST.I immediatly went to my doc a broken man,there she shook her head and said "well soon you know we have to go back to srris" i dident reply much and left.I left with geodon,it took me one night to know this med wasnt gonna help.
So the third night i lay thinking.Goiung over stuff i read everywhere here,there all over,in my head.I then ran to my walgreens was lucky enough to have an old xanax script valid.Said to myself the next morning,i hold in my hands,parnate,klonopin,xanax,three of the most SUCCESFUL medications there are,point blank,if i cant get these to work then i am doomed.(i also had old depakote in my room never used.)
So i started the next morning,first thing i wanted was change,so instead of even looking at parnate,i took a partial tab of xanax,and a smaller tab of klonopin,followed last by a caffiene tab.
Then as a hour or two passed id take the smallest pieace of klonopin u could imagine about two times over alone.Now i had already tried caffiene plus klonopin,which did not help,but here my thinking was all the caffiene was doing was sidetracking any side effects in the sedating area.
Let me tell you i had a doc who wanted me to up a normal once to twice a day klonopin .5mg to THREE 1 mg tabs a day .Even with a docs ok i choose this was not a way to go and i never did it.
ID LOVE TO KNOW....... has anyone found instead of adding or rasing klono or xanax they got a much more profound effect from instead combining the two,even if the two in combo still ended up being less benzo over all than the raise of the single one?
Well thats what happened to me,by the end of the morning my axniety was extremly tamed,something klonopin alone,or xanax alone could never ever achive without depression.
So and im almost done here lol,now i take my 40 mg dose of parnate,and yess that too worked quite well.We are now on day 8 of this,and i have to say using klono and xanax seems to be the reason why,its not like it doesent make sense,yes they are both benzos,BUT the both have a uniquness to them,and in medication in can be that slightest tweak that makes a world of difference.
I also wanna state i once tried parnate and depakote and became very depressed,when i first took the parnate after the xanax/klonopin dose,i feel wired,just a lil,so ive also been cutting up the smallest tiniest pieaces of depakote,and again an extreme extreme difference,still of course not holding crown to what i believe is the working factor.......the low dose klono/xanax.
Unless someone is a very very very long time klono user,i myself 5 yrs,and unless they are a very heavy indvidual,i personaly dont see a person needing to go up to the 4- 5 mg of klonopin,to me its simply way to high out of the spectrum for anxiety,way before it gets there a working second medication should be in place,klonopin climbing up to doses of 4 mg a day is a lot!!!!!!!!! of medication when one doesent suffer from seizures.
If any of us work the same,i personaly would speak to my doc,and inquire since being on such a high dose if the doc would be willing to alternate with a second benzo,maybe it does not have to be the particular two i took,or even in direct combo,maybe just a alternation during the day,can hit the smallest sights differently yet make the biggest changes.
Anyone ever using two benzos succesfully over one,allowing them to lower doses and feel better id love to here ur story.I hld in my hand a sheet from my hospital stay.......William y... to take klonopin 1,g,
Morning,lunch , bed
Well william himself choose this
morning........25,to one half of .25 klonopin.morning.......xanax partial tab
Morning........Caffine tab,whole to half of tab depending on my feel.Any excess anxiety from that point is treat with half of a .25 mg klonopin until 12 pm.
12pm noon
Afternoon 30-40 mg parnate....10 mg depakote.
Late evening i havent settled in yet,im not sure should i just repat the mornings steps one last time before bed,or the late afternoons step.Either way my breakdowns have ceased and my anxiety has been helped to a outstanding degree thus far.Thank goodness,mainly cause i want to watch when emsam comes out and slowly if need go on it,i dont want to have to jump on it out the door without seeing even if its effective.
Well thanks for the ear,its a fight people,it may feel like that demon from behind chasing u never needs to slow down but he does,and when he does youll get your chance to feel some relieaf,just keep moving.We all are.
Posted by Phillipa on February 5, 2006, at 21:16:09
In reply to Parnate and a bunch of stuff (long but good), posted by willyee on February 5, 2006, at 20:33:32
Willyee I've never taken parnate as you know. But I've been on xanax and klonopin at the same time and also chloral hydrate. Never had a problem and my anxiety was controlled. And like you I varied the amt of klonopin. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by willyee on February 5, 2006, at 22:28:35
In reply to Re: Parnate and a bunch of stuff (long but good) » willyee, posted by Phillipa on February 5, 2006, at 21:16:09
> Willyee I've never taken parnate as you know. But I've been on xanax and klonopin at the same time and also chloral hydrate. Never had a problem and my anxiety was controlled. And like you I varied the amt of klonopin. Fondly, Phillipa
Unless very short term,personaly i dont recomend the use of a benzo without either a simple stimulant,caffiene,or a acitvating Anti-depressant.Most people you here who hate benzos,not all but a lot will tell you thats there primay drug,or the primary drug does squat.If this is the case that soothing benzo will go from just that,soothing and calming,to very very depressing,and from my experieance that goes with all benzos......and most moodstablizers as well.
There is always the exception of people who can use sedatives succesfullly alone,but id imagine it must be hard,too much gaba is when a stimulant actualy comes into play and calms u,the brain is pretty complex.
Again the only reason i use benzos is because i do have a medication that provides a anti-depressant effect,there are just many many areas it does qwell and thats where sedatives come in.
If anyone is ising a benzo alone,and having trouble,again i doubt its the benzo,a benzo alone simply willl eventualy accumlate it has to,its what it does,sedates you,and someone with this situation at the very least id try adding small amounts of caffiene tabs.
Posted by Phillipa on February 5, 2006, at 23:20:20
In reply to Re: Parnate and a bunch of stuff (long but good), posted by willyee on February 5, 2006, at 22:28:35
Also I started taking Taurine, and Gaba is it making the situation worse. And magnesium citrate. A long time ago when I lived where you do a pdoc in Dominion Psych tried me on prozac when it first came out 20mg the first day gave me energy, second day increased anxiety, third day painic that took three days of incresed xanax to go down from. But at the time I really wasn't anxious. Only took low dose xanax ,5 at night that's all. The pdoc begged me to take the prozac every three days but I was afraid and now that it comes in dower dose do you think I should ask to try it again with the valium since I've been on a benzo for over 30yrs. Can't quit cold turkey. Oh there were times I didn't even use a benzo but I did drink beer nightly then. Love Jan
Posted by willyee on February 6, 2006, at 6:43:19
In reply to Re: Parnate and a bunch of stuff (long but good), posted by Phillipa on February 5, 2006, at 23:20:20
> Also I started taking Taurine, and Gaba is it making the situation worse. And magnesium citrate. A long time ago when I lived where you do a pdoc in Dominion Psych tried me on prozac when it first came out 20mg the first day gave me energy, second day increased anxiety, third day painic that took three days of incresed xanax to go down from. But at the time I really wasn't anxious. Only took low dose xanax ,5 at night that's all. The pdoc begged me to take the prozac every three days but I was afraid and now that it comes in dower dose do you think I should ask to try it again with the valium since I've been on a benzo for over 30yrs. Can't quit cold turkey. Oh there were times I didn't even use a benzo but I did drink beer nightly then. Love Jan
Thats really a question no one on a group should answer.What i will say is this,have you ever taken an ssri i believe u did say so?Well if you have done even fairly well,no wait if you have even TOLERATED ssris and you yourself are not presisent on any particular drug then i would say why not,just tell the docter youd like to start prozac at the lowest possable dose,if it comes to it simply tell him the reason is you are fearful of these medications and really prefer starting low.I told u before it shows in your posts that you are fearful of them,this is understandable,but as long as you are flat out terrified of taking them you are gonna freak out with every little side effect and ALL of them upon taking initialy will make u feel weird,if you have choosen your gonna take meds,try to find a way to calm your anxiety and fear of taking it for the first time,that can ruin a posssably good drug for u before u ever get a chance to benifit from it.This already happpened to me with depakote.
As for Taurine,its natural,extremly cheap,found at you local health store,has brain protective properties,calms excitied brains,has a role in the production of gaba,and a huge dose is not needed,so sure i dont see why adding that to a benzo would be a problem.I always found like Nuerontion taruine was another substance that ehanced the benzos to work better.Even if it was slighty.
As for gaba itself,theres too much conterversy on whether or not it ever does anything for anxiety or gets to the brain,in fact many people get a flushy burn from it,and a worsening of anxiety,it is also not very cheap,i would skip gaba.
I dont think you should worry more at this point having a benzo and taurine,that should help,if u did want to ehance gaba l-theanine is another over the counter gaba substance that does enter the brain,but i really think you should take it slow,and work on getting a good Anti depressant on board,i can see certain traits of ocd in you only cause i have them as well,and i believe alleviating some depression will help those and make every one of your meds,suplements work better.
I know its hard i am very weary when taking a new medication,but no point going half way if you deceied to race.
Also please dont take this info for more than its worth,im sure u know that,im a sufferer not a docter.
Posted by naughtypuppy on February 6, 2006, at 13:47:39
In reply to Re: Parnate and a bunch of stuff (long but good), posted by willyee on February 6, 2006, at 6:43:19
It's funny but I never hear any one using Librium the grandaddy of all benzos. I find it calms me down, but doesn't make me sleepy or affect my cognitive abilities. Chronic use will cause me bruxism and anorgasmia, but that's why I take it pid. Maybe it's just too old school for most pdocs like MAOI's.
Posted by ed_uk on February 6, 2006, at 15:32:10
In reply to Re: Parnate and a bunch of stuff (long but good), posted by naughtypuppy on February 6, 2006, at 13:47:39
Chlordiazepoxide (Librium) is still used in the UK. It's a perfectly good benzo IMO.
Ed
Posted by naughtypuppy on February 7, 2006, at 6:26:39
In reply to Re: Parnate and a bunch of stuff (long but good) » naughtypuppy, posted by ed_uk on February 6, 2006, at 15:32:10
I thought that Ashton woman had all but managed to get benzos outlawed over there in the island.
Posted by ed_uk on February 7, 2006, at 13:45:30
In reply to Re: Parnate and a bunch of stuff (long but good) » ed_uk, posted by naughtypuppy on February 7, 2006, at 6:26:39
>I thought that Ashton woman had all but managed to get benzos outlawed over there in the island.
They are viewed with great disdain by many doctors and the public alike. Aston's favourite benzo, diazepam (Valium) is currently the most widely prescribed benzodiazepine anxiolytic here. It is often prescribed at ridiculously low doses.
Ed
Posted by forgetful mary on February 7, 2006, at 18:37:33
In reply to Re: Parnate and a bunch of stuff (long but good) » naughtypuppy, posted by ed_uk on February 7, 2006, at 13:45:30
Parnate givng me anxiety...dunno if I will stay on
it,Haven't had this for years!!! Even New Nardil didn't cause this! Anyone know if you can take ativan/lorazapam with it??
Posted by willyee on February 8, 2006, at 8:28:27
In reply to Re: Parnate and a bunch of stuff (long but good), posted by forgetful mary on February 7, 2006, at 18:37:33
> Parnate givng me anxiety...dunno if I will stay on
> it,Haven't had this for years!!! Even New Nardil didn't cause this! Anyone know if you can take ativan/lorazapam with it??
Parnate is creating anxiety for you? A few questions,first how long have you been on it?If u just started it thats normal,its a jitterness that does get a million times better.If you have been on it a while,these are your options,remebering of course im so far from a doc im just a veteran user of this drug.....
A Most certainly,you should be able to add a benzo of your choice,xanax,klonopin the like to handle anxiety and excess stimulation from parnate.Only thing i recomend is dont use it concurently,meaning if u choose say valium,spae it out,dont dose both togther,take the valium (benzo) in a time fram when its taken alone,either before your parnate dose,or after,prob an hour would be good.
B Dont decrease,increase,parnate will actualy take on for most a more sedating effect at the higher doses than the lower ones,you might have even read of users who complain of miday naps or tiredness cause of parnate,most likly these users are at a fairly high dose range.
C Talk to ur doc of course.Now what i found from myself and users here,is if u raise ur parnate dose,the anxiety of it subsides greatly,and u even become tired,weak etc......however at higher doses along with killing the anxiety u could be scarficing some anti depressant propeties too,i personaly am not a fan of extremely high parnate dosing.
Adding a slight sedative would be my recomendation,and the reason i said to space them out is parnate does play very well with benzos,and a lot of other sedating drugs,however i always found it best to take the parnate alone so it can do its thing and not be interpurupted,i mean it all ends up in the same place.
Last,personaly i havent found a medication yet,taken or heard that WORKS,that wont cause some sort of anxiety,usualy slight anxiety can be a good sign,if it can be treated.Its when a drug wont help u get out of bed and take a shower or go to work or interact is when i feel personaly it will be useless to me,and that is why i could never stay on a nardil (new nardil) trial.It just dident have enough to get me moving.
Posted by forgetful mary on February 8, 2006, at 16:17:21
In reply to Re: Parnate and a bunch of stuff (long but good), posted by willyee on February 8, 2006, at 8:28:27
Hi Willyee, I have been on Parnate about 2 months, and the anxiety only just started at 30 mg a day...I start a new job Monday and have to fly to training out of state, so because of that even more anxious but this anxiety feels like stomach in knots(I hate to fly so may use the lorazapam meds I keep for just such an event.)...can't say I ever had this symptom.....And I now have the same insomnia that I gave up with the new Nardil...When I took the old Nardil for 20 years I never really had anxiety or severe insomnia and had great motivation...BUMMER that it is no more!!!
I appreciate your advice and will keep trying , unofortunately have to cancel my pdoc appt as I will be at training so I'll have to grit my teeth and grin and bear it for a few days til after the training which lasts Mon thru thrusday!!> > Parnate givng me anxiety...dunno if I will stay on
> > it,Haven't had this for years!!! Even New Nardil didn't cause this! Anyone know if you can take ativan/lorazapam with it??
>
>
> Parnate is creating anxiety for you? A few questions,first how long have you been on it?
>
> If u just started it thats normal,its a jitterness that does get a million times better.If you have been on it a while,these are your options,remebering of course im so far from a doc im just a veteran user of this drug.....
>
> A Most certainly,you should be able to add a benzo of your choice,xanax,klonopin the like to handle anxiety and excess stimulation from parnate.Only thing i recomend is dont use it concurently,meaning if u choose say valium,spae it out,dont dose both togther,take the valium (benzo) in a time fram when its taken alone,either before your parnate dose,or after,prob an hour would be good.
>
> B Dont decrease,increase,parnate will actualy take on for most a more sedating effect at the higher doses than the lower ones,you might have even read of users who complain of miday naps or tiredness cause of parnate,most likly these users are at a fairly high dose range.
>
>
> C Talk to ur doc of course.
>
>
>
> Now what i found from myself and users here,is if u raise ur parnate dose,the anxiety of it subsides greatly,and u even become tired,weak etc......however at higher doses along with killing the anxiety u could be scarficing some anti depressant propeties too,i personaly am not a fan of extremely high parnate dosing.
>
> Adding a slight sedative would be my recomendation,and the reason i said to space them out is parnate does play very well with benzos,and a lot of other sedating drugs,however i always found it best to take the parnate alone so it can do its thing and not be interpurupted,i mean it all ends up in the same place.
>
>
> Last,personaly i havent found a medication yet,taken or heard that WORKS,that wont cause some sort of anxiety,usualy slight anxiety can be a good sign,if it can be treated.Its when a drug wont help u get out of bed and take a shower or go to work or interact is when i feel personaly it will be useless to me,and that is why i could never stay on a nardil (new nardil) trial.It just dident have enough to get me moving.
>
>
Posted by willyee on February 8, 2006, at 16:26:19
In reply to Re: Parnate and a bunch of stuff (long but good), posted by forgetful mary on February 8, 2006, at 16:17:21
Well i feel for u,aside from Emsam i also keep my eye on the nardil situation as there are hundreds of dedicated sufferers spending lots of personal time and hard effort to get something done,hats off to them.
I would love to switch to nardil,but the OLD NARDIL,dont feel alone in not liking the new one,dont know if ur active there but an entire board of users active constantly are dealing with this,so unless they get the change back it looks like nardil a once proclaimed EXCELLENT drug is now no more,as much as i wanna try it,i personaly dont think they are going to accomplish the goal of getting it back.
So i would ask u are u like myself a totaly 1 thousand percent non responder to ssris? If you are stay on parnate,and we have emsam to look forward to trying,i personaly invite anyone on parnate to contact me as far as sharing advice on poop out,problems with it etc,i can easly be found on the net brklyn234 yahoo messagner.I wish u luck on ur trip.
Posted by forgetful mary on February 8, 2006, at 21:49:18
In reply to Re: Parnate and a bunch of stuff (long but good), posted by willyee on February 8, 2006, at 16:26:19
Yes, I found their NPAC site in November after thinking I had alzheimers or something ....didn't know it had changed except in appearance.....Yes SSRI's useless to me, tried many of them, I look forward to Emsam too.....crossing fingers....Some days on Parnate feel great! and then boom a day or two of crummy depression descends..Bizarre...anyway , time will tell,Thanks!!!
> Well i feel for u,aside from Emsam i also keep my eye on the nardil situation as there are hundreds of dedicated sufferers spending lots of personal time and hard effort to get something done,hats off to them.
>
> I would love to switch to nardil,but the OLD NARDIL,dont feel alone in not liking the new one,dont know if ur active there but an entire board of users active constantly are dealing with this,so unless they get the change back it looks like nardil a once proclaimed EXCELLENT drug is now no more,as much as i wanna try it,i personaly dont think they are going to accomplish the goal of getting it back.
>
>
> So i would ask u are u like myself a totaly 1 thousand percent non responder to ssris? If you are stay on parnate,and we have emsam to look forward to trying,i personaly invite anyone on parnate to contact me as far as sharing advice on poop out,problems with it etc,i can easly be found on the net brklyn234 yahoo messagner.
>
> I wish u luck on ur trip.
This is the end of the thread.
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