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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sac on January 12, 2006, at 0:22:39
Hello,
I know this subject is controversial but I've been switching from one antidepressant med to another for years with limited success. I had blood work done on my thyroid last year which showed normal levels yet I had all the symptoms:hair falling out, feeling cold, fatigue, depression, itchy skin, etc. Anyway, this doctor felt I could have "sub-clinical" hypothyroidism and wanted to treat me based on my symptoms rather than my blood levels. I did find relief from most of my symptoms especially the fatigue on 30-60mg. Armour thyroid. I stopped seeing this doctor for other reasons last year: mainly rude staff and long (2 hours) waiting time and I stopped the medication. I have consulted another endocrinologist and she said I was absolutely fine and it is dangerour to give thyroid hormone to someone who is not technically hypothyroid??? So now I'm just back to feeling lousy. Any experiences?? Thanks -Stacey
Posted by Tabitha on January 12, 2006, at 0:22:39
In reply to Armour thyroid for treatment resistant depression., posted by sac on January 10, 2006, at 5:55:25
Lot's of doctors won't give thyroid med unless your blood levels are well outside "normal". It's more commonly done by psychiatrists, or by certain other doctors. The about.com site has a good section on thyroid, and I remember seeing a list of doctors who use Armour thyroid there. They also have lists of good thyroid docs who would probably be more open to treating you. They're out there, you just have to search.
I'm in a similar boat right now-- see my thread above. Felt great on thyroid med, then was told by my GP and an endo that it's dangerous and I shouldn't take it.
I'm going back to the pdoc who gave me thyroid med in the first place, and then I'm going to see another doc who's supposed to be good for thyroid, based on referrals.
I've reduced my med based on the endo's scare tactics, and I feel worse. And he wanted me to reduce a lot more from this. I'm pretty much going to persist until I find a doc who'll support me with taking thyroid hormone, or else give me a good alternative.
Posted by sac on January 12, 2006, at 0:22:39
In reply to Re: Armour thyroid for treatment resistant depression., posted by Tabitha on January 11, 2006, at 0:21:47
Thanks Tabitha,
Your situation is similar to mine. Most Endo's I've gone to around here are too conservative. If the blood level reads normal than they just tell me I'm fine even though I have almost all the symptoms of hypothyroid and had a prior successful trial with Armour. My Pdoc is much more progressive...he is willing to try many things perhaps I should just have him prescribe the armour thyroid for me and monitor my blood levels? -Stacey
Posted by Tabitha on January 12, 2006, at 0:22:39
In reply to Re: Armour thyroid for treatment resistant depression. » Tabitha, posted by sac on January 11, 2006, at 5:41:19
It can't hurt to ask. Let's hope your pdoc is a bit more open-minded about it.
Posted by blueberry on January 12, 2006, at 5:54:46
In reply to Armour thyroid for treatment resistant depression., posted by sac on January 10, 2006, at 5:55:25
Find anothe doctor! Thyroid function is the engine which drives the "cats", the feel good neurotransmitters dopamine and norepinephrine.
Psychiatrists use thyroid enhancement all the time, often without even any testing. It is one of the most commonly prescribed treatments in the country.
Did your tests specifically test for freeT3, freeT4, and the two antibodies that show thyroid disease or insult? If not, it was a useless test. Insist on those tests.
Urine tests are increasingly being recognized as more accurate than blood tests. There are a handful of labs in the country you can mail your urine samples to. In those tests they are finding that when blood tests show "low normal", the urine tests are showing "below normal".
There are a couple renowned physicians who go by symptoms only, and never even do tests. In other words, if you have some of the symptoms, you get treatment, regardless of what the tests say.
I would highly recommend going out today and buying a book called The Mood Cure. It's less than $20. It has a whole chapter on the details of everything I've mentioned here...the tests, lab phone numbers, insisting on the 4 specific tests, details of those tests, doctors who treat by symptoms, an entire list of the symptoms, how thyroid affects behavior and mood, natural and synthetic treatment options, and more. It's a very handy resource to arm yourself with powerful knowledge when you walk into the doctor's office.
Posted by Cairo on January 12, 2006, at 19:58:39
In reply to Armour thyroid for treatment resistant depression., posted by sac on January 10, 2006, at 5:55:25
In my experience, Endocrinologists are not as resistent to prescribing Synthroid (synthetic levothyroxine or T4) as they are to prescribing Armour thyroid (natural T3 and T4). The thinking is that T4 is converted to T3 as your body needs it. I also came across a comment that the brain uptakes only T4, so Armour thyroid wouldn't cross the blood brain barrier. I don't know if this is true, but the Armour puts off alot of docs.
As to whether it's effective or not, I know several people who took Armour thyroid and many of their somatic complaints improved for awhile, but the effect was lost after some time.
As to the docs who prescribe large doses of Armour thyroid for "resistent" thyroid receptors, I think that's playing with fire as you may shut your thyroid down via negative feedback. I wouldn't want to have it prescribed by someone who didn't know the ins and outs of it.
I don't think there's a clear cut answer here. Some may be helped by it, some not. And the lab values of "normal" TSH were changed a couple of years back, so untreated TSH levels of 5 or less now are being treated (the new benchmark is a TSH of 2). So for those who were treated in the past "symptomatically" with TSHs of 5 and improved, they were clinically hypothyroid, but it was not defined as such back then.
I personally have not benefited from thyroid in the least. And my TSH, T3, T4, thyroid antibodies, reverse T3, etc. are all checked and normal. I would be reluctant to lower my 0.8 TSH any lower at the risk of bone fractures, etc. I think a hyporeactive HPA axis is more the culprit.
Cairo
> Hello,
> I know this subject is controversial but I've been switching from one antidepressant med to another for years with limited success. I had blood work done on my thyroid last year which showed normal levels yet I had all the symptoms:hair falling out, feeling cold, fatigue, depression, itchy skin, etc. Anyway, this doctor felt I could have "sub-clinical" hypothyroidism and wanted to treat me based on my symptoms rather than my blood levels. I did find relief from most of my symptoms especially the fatigue on 30-60mg. Armour thyroid. I stopped seeing this doctor for other reasons last year: mainly rude staff and long (2 hours) waiting time and I stopped the medication. I have consulted another endocrinologist and she said I was absolutely fine and it is dangerour to give thyroid hormone to someone who is not technically hypothyroid??? So now I'm just back to feeling lousy. Any experiences?? Thanks -Stacey
Posted by Phillipa on January 12, 2006, at 21:30:58
In reply to Re: Armour thyroid for treatment resistant depress, posted by Cairo on January 12, 2006, at 19:58:39
I have hasimotos thyroiditis. Antibodies are positive. New guidelines say TSH between 1=3. My niece has a great endo treats how she feels. Fondly Phillipa
Posted by sac on January 13, 2006, at 5:52:41
In reply to Re: Armour thyroid for treatment resistant depression., posted by blueberry on January 12, 2006, at 5:54:46
Thank you so much for your reply. I'm going to buy that book today. The only relief from my symptoms (unbearable fatigue, weakness, coldness, and apathy) was from thyroid hormone. I can't stand being sent away from a doctor feeling lousy but being told "You're blood levels are perfect" "Try exercising more". Any by the way, they did do a complete Thryroid workup including the antibody test and everyone was "great". Although a sonogram reveals I have a multinodular goiter but was told this was nothing to be concerned about???? -Stacey
> Find anothe doctor! Thyroid function is the engine which drives the "cats", the feel good neurotransmitters dopamine and norepinephrine.
>
> Psychiatrists use thyroid enhancement all the time, often without even any testing. It is one of the most commonly prescribed treatments in the country.
>
> Did your tests specifically test for freeT3, freeT4, and the two antibodies that show thyroid disease or insult? If not, it was a useless test. Insist on those tests.
>
> Urine tests are increasingly being recognized as more accurate than blood tests. There are a handful of labs in the country you can mail your urine samples to. In those tests they are finding that when blood tests show "low normal", the urine tests are showing "below normal".
>
> There are a couple renowned physicians who go by symptoms only, and never even do tests. In other words, if you have some of the symptoms, you get treatment, regardless of what the tests say.
>
> I would highly recommend going out today and buying a book called The Mood Cure. It's less than $20. It has a whole chapter on the details of everything I've mentioned here...the tests, lab phone numbers, insisting on the 4 specific tests, details of those tests, doctors who treat by symptoms, an entire list of the symptoms, how thyroid affects behavior and mood, natural and synthetic treatment options, and more. It's a very handy resource to arm yourself with powerful knowledge when you walk into the doctor's office.
Posted by Tabitha on January 15, 2006, at 10:36:53
In reply to Re: Armour thyroid for treatment resistant depression. » blueberry, posted by sac on January 13, 2006, at 5:52:41
Hi sac, I ran across the Armour doctor directory page yesterday.
Posted by sac on January 16, 2006, at 5:30:05
In reply to Re: Armour thyroid for treatment resistant depression. » sac, posted by Tabitha on January 15, 2006, at 10:36:53
This is the end of the thread.
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