![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Racer on January 3, 2006, at 13:41:30
Yesterday, my T asked me if I should be in the hospital. In terms of my mood, the answer is a pretty resounding "YES!" but I can't see what good it would do right now. Because we're trying to make a baby, I'm not going to be adding any new drugs, and I kinda need intimate access to my husband to manage it anyway. Plus there are a bunch of tests I'm supposed to be having along the way, blood tests, sonograms, fluoroscopy, etc, and maybe surgery. So it doesn't seem as though there's much point.
So can anyone offer any ideas? Is there anything that a hospital could do that I can't do at home? Besides reduce the external stresses on me?
Meh. It seemed worth asking.
Posted by James K on January 3, 2006, at 16:13:28
In reply to Hospital question? Not sure where to post, posted by Racer on January 3, 2006, at 13:41:30
The criterea I would consider
Does your area and your coverage have a good hospital that is actually supportive and safe?
Do you or people you know you can trust worry that real harm is a risk to yourself. If that's the case, I believe hospitalization is warranted. I've had to go in several times - some good some bad. But the main thing was, I felt a concrete danger, or had unfortunately already acted on my feelings.
I don't wish it on anybody, but I wouldn't tell someone no if the alternative was worse.
I'm sorry you feel so bad right now.
James K
Posted by ClearSkies on January 3, 2006, at 16:39:50
In reply to Hospital question? Not sure where to post, posted by Racer on January 3, 2006, at 13:41:30
Racer, I am really glad your T asked the question. Listen to the answer you gave. Because you are a smart cookie.
I'm overwhelmingly in favour of you being in the best of health - physically, emotionally, and mentally, before you become a parent. It sounds more like you're thinking along the lines of paying your Visa with your MasterCard, in trying to get by without treating your depression and anxiety so you are med free in anticipation of conceiving a child. I would rather you take care of yourself now, instead of taking care of yourself later.
Just my never humble opinion.
Posted by med_empowered on January 3, 2006, at 17:59:30
In reply to Re: Hospital question? Not sure where to post » Racer, posted by ClearSkies on January 3, 2006, at 16:39:50
I never like hospitals. I just dont see what **most** treatment programs really have to offer. They jiggle meds, toss in some self-help stuff, and *BAM!* you're right back out there. Its really not a terribly contructive option...I don't think surrendering your freedom and autonomy is at all "therapeutic," especially when you don't present a risk to anyone.
If you want to reduce external pressure on yourself, maybe you could go away for a bit? I mean, just you, alone...use $$$ you would have spent on a mental hospital and stay at a hotel or a rented condo or something and chill. Write, think about stuff, maybe re-connect with some old friends. Just my advice.
Posted by Phillipa on January 3, 2006, at 18:19:20
In reply to Re: Hospital question? Not sure where to post, posted by med_empowered on January 3, 2006, at 17:59:30
Racer for you to ask that you must be miserable I agree with Clear Skies. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Racer on January 3, 2006, at 18:46:40
In reply to Re: Hospital question? Not sure where to post » Racer, posted by ClearSkies on January 3, 2006, at 16:39:50
Hm, the baby thing is a big deal, as you know. And there are two reasons I don't see giving up right now: last chance, age wise; and cutting down on the meds (not to mention adding the Clomid) is likely to set this all off again whenever I do it. The age thing is the big deal, though. If I say, "This isn't a good time to do this," I'm pretty well saying, "I'm not going to be able to have children." Not a statement that I can see my way to making.
While this may not seem like the best reason to have children, I can't see that life is at all worth living for me without a child. I actually wanted more than one, but at my age I guess I'll be lucky if I manage the one. This isn't something new, even when I've been in total remission, I've always felt that life wouldn't be worth the effort without that.
Ugh.
I know that your advice is good, and there is part of me right now saying that the way I'm feeling is too dangerous to have a child around. That I'm just too sick to think of having a child. But the next thought after that is, "OK, so there's no reason to live, how can I end this pain without a whole lot of suffering on the way?" So, not necessarily a great option to consider, you know?
Posted by Ilene on January 3, 2006, at 19:21:05
In reply to Hospital question? Not sure where to post, posted by Racer on January 3, 2006, at 13:41:30
I haven't found hospitals a great help. Being hospitalized can reduce stress, but they don't usually keep you for very long and then you're right back out in the real world.
One thing they are good for is quick med changes.
Some hospitals have partial hospitalizations or day programs. I tried one of those and didn't get anything out of it. Most of the other patients did, though.
I started ECT while hospitalized, but it was ineffective and damaged my memory. Again, I know that other people have benefited from it.
I.
Posted by Colleen D. on January 3, 2006, at 20:15:21
In reply to Hospital question? Not sure where to post, posted by Racer on January 3, 2006, at 13:41:30
Well, I haven't been hospitalized for any of my mental conditions yet, and I hope I never have to be.
Maybe the Clomid is really messing with you. I did not like how it made me feel at all. Anxious and irritable is how I was on it.
Do you mind injections? With injectible fertility treatment, you know exactly when to trigger ovulation so limited intimate time with your partner can work!
If you could work it out within the hospital's rules and regs, you could benefit from the rest and still work on that baby.
Just some thoughts,
Colleen
(My last child was born with no complications when I was 41!)
Posted by Racer on January 3, 2006, at 21:44:04
In reply to Re: Hospital question? Not sure where to post » Racer, posted by Colleen D. on January 3, 2006, at 20:15:21
> > Just some thoughts,
> Colleen
> (My last child was born with no complications when I was 41!)I appreciate the thoughts, and they're good ones.
And if I manage to have a baby, my first will be conceived when I'm at least 41, since I'm very close to 42 now. That's why there's no more time.
Posted by 4WD on January 3, 2006, at 22:04:31
In reply to Hospital question? Not sure where to post, posted by Racer on January 3, 2006, at 13:41:30
> Yesterday, my T asked me if I should be in the hospital. In terms of my mood, the answer is a pretty resounding "YES!" but I can't see what good it would do right now. Because we're trying to make a baby, I'm not going to be adding any new drugs, and I kinda need intimate access to my husband to manage it anyway. Plus there are a bunch of tests I'm supposed to be having along the way, blood tests, sonograms, fluoroscopy, etc, and maybe surgery. So it doesn't seem as though there's much point.
>
> So can anyone offer any ideas? Is there anything that a hospital could do that I can't do at home? Besides reduce the external stresses on me?
>
> Meh. It seemed worth asking.I can only see three reasons for going to the hospital:
1. You are suicidal
2. You need yours meds changed and quick
3. You just need a restIf you are suicidal, then you should go for that reason.
YOu aren't wanting to change or add any meds so you shouldn't go for that reason.
If you need a rest, will the hospital let you just check in for a week or two? Would that help in the long run?
Have you reduced all your meds since starting to try to get pregnant? Is that why you are so depressed? Did you add the Clomid at the same time?
You said that if you gave up on the idea of having a child there would be no reason to live. I don't think you would feel that way if you weren't depressed in the first place. I think (just my opinion) your first concern should be for yourself. Can you handle being off meds for months while you try to conceive and for more months while you are pregnant? Can you live the way you feel right now?
Most of the ADs say it's okay to take them during pregnancy if the benefits outweigh the risks. In your case, I think they do.
I was never able to have a child and while it hurt for a while, now I'm glad I didn't. I couldn't have handled it. (I'm 49)
It's possible that getting pregnant would improve your depression. It' also possible you could suffer a severe post partum depression.
God, this post is rambling and mostly a downer. I'm sorry. It was just some things that popped in my head when I read your post.
Marsha
Posted by Racer on January 3, 2006, at 23:49:35
In reply to Re: Hospital question? Not sure where to post » Racer, posted by 4WD on January 3, 2006, at 22:04:31
>
> I can only see three reasons for going to the hospital:
> 1. You are suicidalI'm pretty close. I have no plan, but that doesn't mean it ain't been on my mind. I think that's why this is a grey zone: since I'm not *actively* suicidal, does that mean hospital or not?
Keeping always in mind that I don't eat in hospital. While that sounds like a very, very good thing to me, it really isn't so great...
> Have you reduced all your meds since starting to try to get pregnant? Is that why you are so depressed? Did you add the Clomid at the same time?
Well, I stopped Cymbalta more from side effects and doubting it was doing anything for me, rather than for the babymaking. But we did raise the Wellbutrin and add Buspar. That was yesterday, so no change yet, obviously. Those are both Catagory B.
The Clomid I started in November. The first month was wild in a rather nice way: the first few weeks, when it was upping my estrogen, I felt better than I had in -- in memory, really. But the second cycle, the doctor raised it. That set off the wild ride.
Next cycle, if I'm not pregnant this month, the doctor has said we're going back down on the Clomid, which I very much hope helps.
>
> You said that if you gave up on the idea of having a child there would be no reason to live. I don't think you would feel that way if you weren't depressed in the first place.Nope. I've always felt that way, in remission, in depression, etc. That's the one constant in my life, ever since before the first time I got pregnant (in my teens, when I think it was contagious...). The only thing that's stayed the same in my ambitions was wanting children, ever since I was a child.
> I think (just my opinion) your first concern should be for yourself. Can you handle being off meds for months while you try to conceive and for more months while you are pregnant? Can you live the way you feel right now?
I don't know. And I don't think I can really make my mood my first concern -- because I've been in treatment now for two and a half years without remission. In fact, I'm feeling much worse lately than I did a year ago. (When I was thin.) I think putting my own treatment first would become a full time job, forever, which is something else I couldn't handle.
>
> Most of the ADs say it's okay to take them during pregnancy if the benefits outweigh the risks. In your case, I think they do.They say that, but they don't really know. What they do know is that many of the ADs cause serious birth defects/resorbtion in test animals, in high numbers. And no matter how bad this is, I just can't see trying to stay on a med that would be so risky.
> It's possible that getting pregnant would improve your depression. It' also possible you could suffer a severe post partum depression.
That's a big fear of mine. Thankfully, I have some good enough support to help with that, and I think we can plan on it happening, so we won't be surprised by it...
>
> God, this post is rambling and mostly a downer. I'm sorry. It was just some things that popped in my head when I read your post.
>
> Marsha
>S'OK. Just remember, though, that *I* am the Empress of Rambling Posts. You can only be the princess.
Posted by cecilia on January 4, 2006, at 1:59:28
In reply to Re: Hospital question? Not sure where to post » 4WD, posted by Racer on January 3, 2006, at 23:49:35
When you say there would be no reason to live if you didn't have a child, would it have to be a biological child or would you consider adoption? That would take the time pressure off. For me, I would be too scared to become pregnant on meds. I would feel too guilty if something were wrong with the baby. But everyone has to make that decision for herself. I desperately wanted a baby when I was younger, but at the same time I knew I was always far too depressed to raise a child (and deep down I knew that what I really wanted was those few months of babyhood, not 20 years of raising a child.) Still, when I had a hysterectomy at age 46 it was very hard knowing that the dream was gone forever. Though for you at 41, you never know, there was a 54 year old woman with 8 children and 15 grandchildren who had triplets a few years ago-no fertility treatments, total surprise! Anyway, I hope you're feeling better soon. Cecilia
Posted by antigua on January 4, 2006, at 12:16:53
In reply to Re: Hospital question? Not sure where to post » Colleen D., posted by Racer on January 3, 2006, at 21:44:04
Your window of opportunity may be shrinking, but you still have time.(I speak from experience) The pressure of trying to conceive is tough enough on its own--you need to be in decent enough shape just to handle that. Take care of yourself, first, Racer. The infertility cycle can take on a life of its own and you know stress is just no good for that. Conceiving is science and nature, with a little "extra" thrown in.
Please take care of yourself first. You do have time. I know you've been through a lot, and I'm rooting for you.
antigua
Posted by med_empowered on January 4, 2006, at 12:39:06
In reply to Re: Hospital question? Not sure where to post » Racer, posted by antigua on January 4, 2006, at 12:16:53
I'm young (21) so I can't really give sage advice or anything..I'm pretty much typing whatever pops into my head that I think might help. But...that said..
I think there's the assumption that you have to fix yourself **before** anything good can happen--good relationship, before you can become a good parent, etc. I don't think thats true. We are all imperfect, struggling, somewhat damaged people.Everyone. So...maybe you don't have to be perfectly happy or well-adjusted to have a kid. Or start a relationship. I'm not saying these things will help you, necessarily, but sometimes continuing on with life is healing in and of itself...plus, don't forget "the healing tincture of time". Love heals, relationships heal, life itself helps us heal/adjust.
I think mental hospitals really aren't that great. And if you're going off psych meds anyway, I think it might be counter-productive. Intensive outpatient therapy might help. So might the passage of time.
Posted by Racer on January 4, 2006, at 14:07:36
In reply to hi again!, posted by med_empowered on January 4, 2006, at 12:39:06
>
> I think there's the assumption that you have to fix yourself **before** anything good can happen--good relationship, before you can become a good parent, etc. I don't think thats true. We are all imperfect, struggling, somewhat damaged people.Everyone. So...maybe you don't have to be perfectly happy or well-adjusted to have a kid. Or start a relationship. I'm not saying these things will help you, necessarily, but sometimes continuing on with life is healing in and of itself...plus, don't forget "the healing tincture of time". Love heals, relationships heal, life itself helps us heal/adjust.I agree. I am older than you are -- obviously -- so I can give that sage advice... lol But after watching the world, I've finally figured out that if you wait until everything is ideal to do something, you'll wait forever.
When I met my husband, I had just come out of a long relationship, and told myself I was going to practice dating -- and not get involved with anyone. I was going to get my life in better order, practice the dating thing, and then wait until things got better to look for a relationship. And then I met a man who seemed to share my thoughts, and who gave me a nickname my mother had used as a kid (that seemed like a Magic Sign), and just felt Right. So, best laid plans...
>
> I think mental hospitals really aren't that great. And if you're going off psych meds anyway, I think it might be counter-productive. Intensive outpatient therapy might help. So might the passage of time.I can't really get more intensive outpatient -- either I'd have to do a partial hospital which would mean leaving my T and my pdoc, or do more therapy with my T, which we can't afford. I already do once or twice a week with her, a weekly support group, and an every other week group therapy with my T. That's stretching out money a lot as it is.
Thank you, though, especially for not trying to discourage me in trying to get pregnant. The more I hear that, the more I start to feel that I shouldn't be doing this -- and that leads to very serious suicidal ideation.
And for everyone here -- today I suddenly feel different. I'd bet that means I'm going to get my period, which would mean that most of this has been hormonal. Grrr. Or, of course, I'm pregnant, and this is just a change as my hormones change from that. Guess I'll know in a few days.
Posted by Phillipa on January 4, 2006, at 18:23:32
In reply to Thank you. » med_empowered, posted by Racer on January 4, 2006, at 14:07:36
Racer I hate to interject a negative note. But I had my first child at age l9 and my last at 27. If she had been born first I wouldn't have any more kids. At the time it was a mistake and when she was born she cried 24hours a day, hired a nurse[insurance was good then] that wasn't enough. During the day I held her she projectile vomited each bottle. During the night my husband rocked her through the night. I had previously had bad anxiety this triggered the first major deprssion I'd ever had. She was hospitalized numerous times for first l8months for things like we needed sleep to popping hernias in the doctors office to not eating failure to thrive. It took me quite a few years after she was better to get a semblance of a life back. And now that they are all grown up the problems are all there. You are a mother for life. Whatever problems they have are yours and if you have anxiety depression it makes it hard for you to get better. Now I'm not saying there weren't good times but prepare yourself for anything. I know how bad you want a baby Racer really good luck. Hope it's not your p and that you are preganant as I felt the best of my life when I was pregnant. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Colleen D. on January 4, 2006, at 18:31:19
In reply to Thank you. » med_empowered, posted by Racer on January 4, 2006, at 14:07:36
I really understand your wanting a child. I had the same feelings when I was 33 and got married to the person who I thought was my soulmate. (I know better than that now, unfortunately.) I knew there was something wrong with my head, but hadn't pursued treatment yet. My husband kept saying he wasn't ready to start a family and I felt like my time was running out. Then I got pregnant and we lost our first little girl for reasons I still don't understand. Then came Matthew, and I thought I was being punished by God for something I had done because he was not the "perfect" child I had always wanted. Then the need to give him a sibling almost overwhelmed me and I felt myself teetering on the brink of insanity...so I did the injections even though I was not mentally WELL and along came Allison who is so sweet and wonderful (most of the time) that I know she will help take care of Matthew when I'm gone. Then Bridget came along too and surprised me, but I thought maybe God knew Matthew needed two sisters for some reason.
Anyway, I hope your dream comes true very soon. PG may not be easy, but the outcome can be wonderful. When I took Clomid the PMS was horrendous and my anxiety was through the roof. I just think that it's not the best thing to help you get the child you want, especially when your age is one of your main concerns. If this cycle does not work out, PLEASE look into other drugs for ovulation induction. It's the best thing I did for myself. On my second cycle of Repronex, BAM, all the tests showed a strong healthy pregnancy, and that was soooo comforting. It was 4 days after 9-11 that I found out I was PG with Allison and I turned 40 that December.
Best wishes and lots of hugs,
Colleen
Posted by willyee on January 5, 2006, at 9:52:48
In reply to Hospital question? Not sure where to post, posted by Racer on January 3, 2006, at 13:41:30
Hate to even call it a hospital,when i first inquired about my local one i imagined having access to docters through the day........WOW imagine that,i was all for it.
Then being admitted by a very nasty counsler after i CHOOSE to go to the ER one day,i learned quick fast the truth.
- YOU DO NOT have access to docters through the day,now u do have daily but its like 5 min.
- In my case i was surrounded by arrogant teenages with hello my name is tags,talking to me as if i just had a lobotomy.
- Lots of patronizing.
- Total sense of imprisonment,stripped all my stuff,i spent the whole day pulling my pants up so they wouldent fall down.- Being around people who prob to this day never knew i was there,totaly drugged up.
- Your told when u smoke,when u eat,when u can use the phone,and ur not told by the kindest people.
All in all the hospital made me learn how to cope at home in fear of going there.I thought i was being responsable going to the ER i dident have to i just wanted to be on the safe side,well aganist my own parents wishes this woman admitted me.Of course i was out the next da but one day is still embeded in my fears.
Now other so called hospitals might be better but noooooo maam id leave it for people who pose an imediate danger to themselves or others,people who are not in there normal state of mind and need to be locked down until so.I dont see how its called a hospital,there are no true medical prodessionals there,i wonder if the few staff that was there had any certifications or were just randomly hired workes,it was no pleaseant.
Posted by ClearSkies on January 5, 2006, at 10:07:04
In reply to Re: Hospital question? Not sure where to post » ClearSkies, posted by Racer on January 3, 2006, at 18:46:40
OK, I'm not one to give up easily. And there was something bothering me when I read about your support system. So I looked back on your posts, and not too long ago on Psychology, yu posted this:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20051130/msgs/584213.html
- which makes me really concerned. That this is your support system, Racer. People who already contribute to your present state of mind. It just couldn't be a good thing for a new member of your family, unless you have a different support system in mind? Sorry if I am misreading here, I don't mean to upset. I'm very very worried is all.
ClearSkies
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.