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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by iforgotmypassword on November 5, 2005, at 0:37:07
http://www.medforum.com/lifeline/articles/nvs00002/article.html
i'm having trouble reading right now, but they mention things like calcium blockers in a new way from what otherwise seems to be gaining populrity... they talk about vasospasm being a root cause of ADD, very interesting since the animal model of ADD is the spontaneously hypertensive rat. anyways as i said i cannot concentrate or think right now, what's other people's take on this?
Posted by linkadge on November 5, 2005, at 14:52:45
In reply to VASOSPASM in psych/neuro disorders?, posted by iforgotmypassword on November 5, 2005, at 0:37:07
I have read about some of these models of ADD in the spontainiously hypertensive rat.
Supposedly they elevated levels of brain norepinephrine. Which is funny, because we sometimes treat ADD with NRI's
Linkadge
Posted by iforgotmypassword on November 5, 2005, at 15:50:11
In reply to Re: VASOSPASM in psych/neuro disorders?, posted by linkadge on November 5, 2005, at 14:52:45
i don't understand how norepinephrine works anyways... we seem to block some of it's receptors for anti-depressant response. is this like the 5HT2 in serotonin receptors?
funnily enough, i've also read opinions stating that block alpha2 recptors MIMICKS ADHD. confusing.
Posted by linkadge on November 5, 2005, at 19:17:16
In reply to Re: VASOSPASM in psych/neuro disorders?, posted by iforgotmypassword on November 5, 2005, at 15:50:11
Yeah, most of the models I have read about, involve hyper-noradrenergic and hypo-dopaminergic function in the frontal cortex.
Norepinephrine may increase alertness, but not focus. I don't know exactly.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on November 5, 2005, at 21:15:24
In reply to Re: VASOSPASM in psych/neuro disorders?, posted by linkadge on November 5, 2005, at 19:17:16
I interpret the article to say that when one has problems with blood flow to the brain that this creates the listed problems. A headache is a constriction in blood flow to the brain. I can't fathom the others being inplicated. That would mean anyone with decreased bloodflow to the carotid arteries that lead to the brain as having psychiatric problems and that's not true. And if someone had carotidectomy there sympoms would disappear. It's narrowing of the blood arteriew to the brain. And this happens most often in older people. A stetescope to the neck can reveal dimisnished blood flow. Fondly, Phillipa PS caroidectomy is spelled wrong
Posted by fuchsia on November 6, 2005, at 0:22:55
In reply to Re: VASOSPASM in psych/neuro disorders?, posted by Phillipa on November 5, 2005, at 21:15:24
What you're saying makes sense Phillipa but the way I'm reading it it could be that a pattern of blood vessels within the brain itself is affected. If so the result would not be as even and generalized as you would get in the case of the carotid artery being constricted.
I did read you can get psychiatric symptoms as part of the aura of the migraine. Maybe this is something like that.
Posted by zeugma on November 6, 2005, at 8:28:30
In reply to Re: VASOSPASM in psych/neuro disorders?, posted by linkadge on November 5, 2005, at 19:17:16
> Yeah, most of the models I have read about, involve hyper-noradrenergic and hypo-dopaminergic function in the frontal cortex.
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> Norepinephrine may increase alertness, but not focus. I don't know exactly.
>
> LinkadgeNorepinephrine improves, roughly speaking, where your attention goes: to inner or outer experience? The locus coeruleus fires rapidly when a novel stimulus is presented, but then slows when an animal is directing attention to itself, e.g. when it is grooming itself.
Dopamine contibutes focus and degree to which you are awake. it is highly involved in perception. I can discriminate colors on high doses of Ritalin, but can't see them at all on anything else.
On Strattera I was able to direct attention to the outside world. That is how it helps inattentive ADHD IMO. You don't become as lost in your own thoughts.
Spontaneously hypertensive rats are an interesting animal model. They have peculiar responses to many drugs, not just ADHD-like symptoms.
-z
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Posted by linkadge on November 6, 2005, at 9:34:54
In reply to Re: VASOSPASM in psych/neuro disorders?, posted by zeugma on November 6, 2005, at 8:28:30
I guess I am wondering why we have a drug like clonidine, which lowers noradrenergic neurotransmission, as an effective treatement for ADHD.
Linkadge
Posted by zeugma on November 6, 2005, at 10:11:10
In reply to Re: VASOSPASM in psych/neuro disorders?, posted by linkadge on November 6, 2005, at 9:34:54
> I guess I am wondering why we have a drug like clonidine, which lowers noradrenergic neurotransmission, as an effective treatement for ADHD.
>
> LinkadgeGood question. I am not sure if clonidine and guanfacine are not primarily effective in attentuating hyperactivity rather than directly improving the cognitive difficulties in ADHD. It would be interesting to know if clonidine is useful in inattentive ADHD.
-z
Posted by ed_uk on November 6, 2005, at 15:46:27
In reply to Re: VASOSPASM in psych/neuro disorders?, posted by linkadge on November 6, 2005, at 9:34:54
Hi Link
Clonidine can be sedating. It reduces hyperactivity and attenuates aggressive/impulsive behaviour. I can't imagine it improving attention.
Kind regards
Ed
Posted by linkadge on November 6, 2005, at 16:23:09
In reply to Re: VASOSPASM in psych/neuro disorders? » linkadge, posted by ed_uk on November 6, 2005, at 15:46:27
Quite a few of the studies at neurotransmitter.net seem to actually point to norepinephrine hyperactivity in attentional issues.
http://www.neurotransmitter.net/adhdgenetic.html
Linkadge
Posted by lunesta on November 6, 2005, at 16:26:28
In reply to VASOSPASM in psych/neuro disorders?, posted by iforgotmypassword on November 5, 2005, at 0:37:07
neurontin or nimodipine might be interesting choices to try. i know norep. is involved with gaba and the 'signal to noise' ratio, what information goes in that is relevant or not. if one is too low or too high the signal to noise gets messed up.
neurontin effects dopamine metabolism.
Posted by zeugma on November 6, 2005, at 16:50:14
In reply to Re: VASOSPASM in psych/neuro disorders?, posted by lunesta on November 6, 2005, at 16:26:28
> neurontin or nimodipine might be interesting choices to try. i know norep. is involved with gaba and the 'signal to noise' ratio, what information goes in that is relevant or not. if one is too low or too high the signal to noise gets messed up.
>this is exactly right. When I skipped Provigil for a day, I suddenly felt flooded by irrelavant information and had to force myself to concentrate on a task.
When I combined Provigil and Ritalin at a certain ratio (100 mg Provigil and 20 mg Ritalin) the signal to noise ratio was also messed up, this time in the opposite direction: I became hyperfocused and I had to force myself to pull my attention from a task, even if something else was an important stimulus.-z
> neurontin effects dopamine metabolism.
Posted by Phillipa on November 6, 2005, at 19:55:34
In reply to Re: VASOSPASM in psych/neuro disorders? » Phillipa, posted by fuchsia on November 6, 2005, at 0:22:55
Fuschia, an aura can be part of a migraine you're right. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by iforgotmypassword on November 6, 2005, at 20:45:02
In reply to Re: VASOSPASM in psych/neuro disorders?, posted by linkadge on November 6, 2005, at 16:23:09
what kind of cases outside chronic pain? how long and at what dose does neurontin help? i tried a dose and just felt wierd and stupider. i don' i cant find much good info on nimotop anywhere. :(
Posted by neuroman on November 7, 2005, at 21:18:28
In reply to Re: VASOSPASM in psych/neuro disorders?, posted by lunesta on November 6, 2005, at 16:26:28
Hi,
> neurontin effects dopamine metabolism
Do you know in what way? I've always believed this to be the case. I've taken it for chronic pain and despite being sedating it always gives me a libido boost. I know it mimics some of the effects of dopamine, such as blocking L-type calcium channels and opening K channels. It may also antagonize the NMDA receptor, albeit in a completely different manner than dopamine. I have a love hate relationship with this drug.
Paul
Posted by katekite on November 7, 2005, at 23:11:56
In reply to who does neurontin help? more info on nimotop?, posted by iforgotmypassword on November 6, 2005, at 20:45:02
Nimodipine?
Neurontin's used for anxiety and social phobia, for mild BP, for pain. I took it for anxiety, sedated first dose but after 3 days changed to a mild stimulant type of feeling, very fun, sadly wore off after a couple weeks (no not BP). The decrease in anxiety did help concentration, or maybe it was some other effect, but I was very focussed for a while. At some point after a month in, I just felt dull but mildly disinhibited, and eventually gave up on it.
Kate
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