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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SLS on September 12, 2005, at 8:26:15
I am considering the use of vigabatrin (Sabril) as a mood-stabilizer / antidepressant.
Any comments?
Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by EERRIICC on September 12, 2005, at 14:22:22
In reply to Vigabatrin (Sabril) - Anyone plan on trying it?, posted by SLS on September 12, 2005, at 8:26:15
jrbecker would more than likely know. I hope one of these drugs helps you Scott. Phenibut is really interesting too you might want to check it out, you have to buy the powder though, and I needed a high dose, 5mg. Also it did not work til the second day of dosing at this level. It's AD effect was unlike anything else I have ever experienced. I diden't re-order because the small number of authorities out there said it created quick tolerence (like a couple weeks) and most importantly I had other more solid options. I'll go back to it if other things fail, maybe a "rolling dose" would stop tolerance. What do you think of low dose Ketamine, there's the one study and I've heard some great anecdotal evidence?
I have a few facts about Lyrica but I'd prefer you e-mai me at eric_dittmar@hotmail.com.
Good Luck,
Eric
Posted by Tom Twilight on September 12, 2005, at 16:21:03
In reply to Re: Vigabatrin (Sabril) - Anyone plan on trying it? » SLS, posted by EERRIICC on September 12, 2005, at 14:22:22
Hello again Scott
To me Vigabatrin sounds more interesting than Pregabalin
I've never taken it sadlyAs you probably know it has been used to treat cocaine addiction
http://cocaine.org/vigabatrin/It does also apparently have some anti-anxiety effects, although they haven't been well studied, from what I can gather.
Phenibut is an interesting substance, as Eric said
It did more for me than Pregabalin in the long term, it feels a bit like GHB, but not as powerful or addictive, and longer lasting
Unfortunatly tollerance built up quickly for me, but its quite cheap, so perhapse worth a try.
Posted by Phillipa on September 12, 2005, at 18:29:54
In reply to Re: Vigabatrin (Sabril) - Anyone plan on trying it?, posted by Tom Twilight on September 12, 2005, at 16:21:03
Everyone or a lot of posters bring up HGB. Isn't that the date rape drug? Just asking Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Chairman_MAO on September 13, 2005, at 8:44:59
In reply to Vigabatrin (Sabril) - Anyone plan on trying it?, posted by SLS on September 12, 2005, at 8:26:15
If you decide to do this, PLEASE follow up with an opthamologist who is familiar with the drug. It has caused IRREVERSIBLE derangement of the visual field in a relatively large percentage of those who've taken it.
Posted by SLS on September 13, 2005, at 9:43:53
In reply to Re: Vigabatrin (Sabril) - Anyone plan on trying it » SLS, posted by Chairman_MAO on September 13, 2005, at 8:44:59
> If you decide to do this, PLEASE follow up with an opthamologist who is familiar with the drug. It has caused IRREVERSIBLE derangement of the visual field in a relatively large percentage of those who've taken it.
Thanks C_M.
I was aware of that, but I didn't know it was in such a large percentage of people. Thanks. I think I'll stay away from it.
:-)
It is too bad that felbamate produces aplastic anemia and hepatotoxicity. I believe the NIMH reviewed its psychiatric effects and discovered that it can be stimulating and activating like lamotrigine. There is even a report of it inducing mania.
It's always something with these drugs.
- Scott
Posted by Tom Twilight on September 13, 2005, at 13:09:11
In reply to Re: Vigabatrin (Sabril) - Anyone plan on trying it » Chairman_MAO, posted by SLS on September 13, 2005, at 9:43:53
The visual problems that can be caused by Vigabatrin are really annoying.
However I don't think there is a huge risk of this in short term usage, none of the patients in the cocain study had a problem, although it was a small scale study.
Having said that I don't know a great deal about the drug or the risks!
Posted by Chairman_MAO on September 13, 2005, at 14:09:04
In reply to Re: Vigabatrin (Sabril) - Anyone plan on trying it » Chairman_MAO, posted by SLS on September 13, 2005, at 9:43:53
You may wish to try gastrodin, a drug from gastrodia elata tuber extract. It is a GABA-T/SSADH inhibitor with nootropic, anti-ischemic, and I believe antioxidant properties. It is used for all sorts of things in many countries around the world, esp. China.
When I said that there is a large % of visual field defects, I said that it was RELATIVE to the dangers of taking other drugs. I am not sure what the absolute risk is, but I've read a little about it and it seems to be far from trivial, such as the risk of cataracts from seroquel, etc.
But people take pemoline and nefazodone w/o liver problems, so you could be fine. VISION seems like something I really wouldn't want to mess with, though.
BTW, memantine is activating (indirect dopamine releaser), as is amantadine. Have you tried either of those? There is also riluzole.
Posted by SLS on September 13, 2005, at 15:56:59
In reply to Re: Vigabatrin (Sabril) - Anyone plan on trying it » SLS, posted by Chairman_MAO on September 13, 2005, at 14:09:04
> BTW, memantine is activating (indirect dopamine releaser), as is amantadine. Have you tried either of those? There is also riluzole.
I've tried all three. Ain't that a bitch? Of the three, only memantine provided an antidepressant effect. Unfortunately, it was short-lived.
Thanks for brainstorming my case. I really appreciate it.
- Scott
Posted by Tom Twilight on September 13, 2005, at 16:34:01
In reply to Re: Vigabatrin (Sabril) - Anyone plan on trying it » SLS, posted by Chairman_MAO on September 13, 2005, at 14:09:04
> When I said that there is a large % of visual field defects, I said that it was RELATIVE to the dangers of taking other drugs. I am not sure what the absolute risk is, but I've read a little about it and it seems to be far from trivial, such as the risk of cataracts from seroquel, etc.
>
Hey ChairmanI wasn't try to rubbish your point at all
The risk of sight damage with Vigabatrin is very significant. Thats why it not a first or second line treatment in epillepsy
Going blind probably wouldn't help anyones anyones mood LOLPerhapse for a few people the benefits might outway the risks, I don't know.
I wish I could get hold of Gastrodin, but I haven't been able to find it so far.Have you tried Phenibut? Its an interesting drug
Posted by Chairman_MAO on September 16, 2005, at 10:51:59
In reply to Re: Vigabatrin (Sabril) - Anyone plan on trying it, posted by SLS on September 13, 2005, at 15:56:59
Ever considered that combination? Memantine potentiates opioids, buprenorphine is great for refractory depression (kappa antagonism and of course mu partial agonist), tranylcypromine releases DA, memantine releases DA, memantine helps attenuate psychostimulant tolerance, etc. etc. etc. Opioids disinhibit DAergic neurons in the nucleus accumbens.
See the logic here?
Posted by SLS on September 18, 2005, at 9:02:20
In reply to try buprenorphine + memantine + tranylcypromine » SLS, posted by Chairman_MAO on September 16, 2005, at 10:51:59
Hi C_M.
> Ever considered that combination? Memantine potentiates opioids, buprenorphine is great for refractory depression (kappa antagonism and of course mu partial agonist), tranylcypromine releases DA, memantine releases DA, memantine helps attenuate psychostimulant tolerance, etc. etc. etc. Opioids disinhibit DAergic neurons in the nucleus accumbens.
>
> See the logic here?
Absolutely.Maybe I should start working on my doctor to prepare him for the introduction of opioids into the mix. I have some left-over memantine. Perhaps I'll chuck some in there for a few days to see what happens. I did respond to it the first time I tried it. The response lasted for about a week.
Currently:
Lamictal 150mg
Parnate 80mg
nortriptyline 100mg
Abilify 10mg
Keppra 1000mg
- Scott
Posted by Chairman_MAO on September 21, 2005, at 13:48:34
In reply to Re: try buprenorphine + memantine + tranylcypromine » Chairman_MAO, posted by SLS on September 18, 2005, at 9:02:20
The first thing you should do IMHO is chuck the abilify and use a modern, FULL dopamine agonist instead (ropinirole, pramipexole, cabergoline). As for its 5ht2 antagonism, won't the nortryptiline do enough of that? It's an intuition of mine that if someone is on more than three psych drugs administered for psychoactive purposes, something is not working.
Cabergoline is affordable from www.mastersmarketing.com, and you only have to take it once per day. From case reports, it's my impression that the antidepressant augmentation dose is around 2.5mg/day. You can probably nix the lamictal when you add the memantine, and quite possibly nix the notryptiline when you add the bupe. I would also recommend working the tranylcypromine dose up to at least 120-150mg/day, maybe even 200mg/day; doses lower than 90-120 do not have the effects on 5ht2 density that phenelzine and higher TCP doses do, IIRC. At high enough TCP doses, its metabolites will probably give you enough NE uptake inhibition such that you will not need a TCA if you are taking bupe and memantine. All conjecture, of course.
This is the end of the thread.
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