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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by darkhorse on August 14, 2005, at 12:05:42
In reply to Re: Amitriptyline is ok » KaraS, posted by ed_uk on August 14, 2005, at 9:20:27
Hi ED :
> I've always believed that amitriptyline was probably more effective. It's a much more potent serotonin and NE reuptake inhibitor than doxepin. It's a better established AD. It's probably more likely to cause tachycardia though........ but not much as desipramine.Me too. In my opinion Doxepin is a powerful anti-histamine medican, with very mild 5ht/ne uptake as a bonus!
However I agree that Amit. is a potent NE/5ht,5ht2 antagonist,and anti- histaminic as a bonus!
Yes, desipramine gave me the 2nd worst tachycardia ever (after the pro-aggression/depressive Sibutramine).
Posted by KaraS on August 14, 2005, at 15:50:06
In reply to Re: Amitriptyline is ok » KaraS, posted by ed_uk on August 14, 2005, at 9:20:27
> Hi K,
>
> >Probably but what's the advantage over doxepin?
>
> I've always believed that amitriptyline was probably more effective. It's a much more potent serotonin and NE reuptake inhibitor than doxepin. It's a better established AD. It's probably more likely to cause tachycardia though........ but not much as desipramine.
>
> Ed xx
Thanks. Maybe someday I'll try it again. Right now, since it is more likely to cause tachycardia, then I think I'll stay away from it. I don't want to be combining it with the Dex.K xx
Posted by KaraS on August 14, 2005, at 15:54:34
In reply to Re: Amitriptyline is ok » ed_uk, posted by darkhorse on August 14, 2005, at 12:05:42
> Hi ED :
>
> > I've always believed that amitriptyline was probably more effective. It's a much more potent serotonin and NE reuptake inhibitor than doxepin. It's a better established AD. It's probably more likely to cause tachycardia though........ but not much as desipramine.
>
> Me too. In my opinion Doxepin is a powerful anti-histamine medican, with very mild 5ht/ne uptake as a bonus!
> However I agree that Amit. is a potent NE/5ht,5ht2 antagonist,and anti- histaminic as a bonus!
> Yes, desipramine gave me the 2nd worst tachycardia ever (after the pro-aggression/depressive Sibutramine).
>
Yes, doxepin's anti-histamine effect has been great for me for a number of reasons.I'm surprised that you're calling sibutramine "pro agression/depressive". I know of two people who have mentioned recently that they really want to try it as an AD (one of them being SLS).
k
Posted by KaraS on August 14, 2005, at 17:45:33
In reply to Re: Amitriptyline is ok, posted by KaraS on August 14, 2005, at 15:54:34
Posted by Phillipa on August 14, 2005, at 18:28:48
In reply to Re: Amitriptyline is ok, posted by KaraS on August 14, 2005, at 15:54:34
Hi Kara, Just wondering if you'd heard from Scott SLS. Last time I saw a post he wasn't doing well at all with his trileptal. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by KaraS on August 14, 2005, at 18:36:32
In reply to Re: Amitriptyline is ok » KaraS, posted by Phillipa on August 14, 2005, at 18:28:48
> Hi Kara, Just wondering if you'd heard from Scott SLS. Last time I saw a post he wasn't doing well at all with his trileptal. Fondly, Phillipa
Hi,He posted a couple times recently further down on the board. You may have seen his posts already by the time you read this.
K
Posted by darkhorse on August 15, 2005, at 7:09:37
In reply to Re: Amitriptyline is ok, posted by KaraS on August 14, 2005, at 15:54:34
> I'm surprised that you're calling sibutramine "pro agression/depressive". I know of two people who have mentioned recently that they really want to try it as an AD (one of them being SLS).
>
> kHello Kara :
When Sibutramine came out,I was so excited by it: a theoraticaly AD (5ht/Ne/Da action)+ Weight loss!Sadly I tried it several times and for relativly long periods with diff. doses (10-15-20-30),but all I got from the 2nd day onwards is an increase in hostility,aggresion and agitation.I was frowning all the time.
I tried to tame this by adding Fluoxetine& benzoz but to no avail.
I could have tolerated the Tachycardia and the sweating and insomnia,but this aggressive effect was too much for me and everybody else who came my way.When I stopped it I felt such a huge relief.
I also asked 2 other people who had no psyc. history and tried it to lose weight and told me they could not tolerate it because of its hostile irritable depressive effect.
Sibutramine is not alone:
Milnacipran did the same,and it is supposed to be an official AD!
Also Bupropion had an irritable/dysphoric effect on me.
And last,but not least, Reboxetine,though did not make me hostile, within a couple of days I was the most miserable person on earth.
It triggered a terrible depression that rapidly makes you wondee if life is worth living.When I stopped Sibutramine,Milnacipran,Bupropion and Reboxetine, within a day or 2 I was back to normal.
I've tried many many ADs,but the ones mentioned stand out as being the worst ever,as they effect you in the opposite direction.
Just my experience.
P.S. note that Sibutramine , Milnacipran and Reboxetine are not popular medications,even though they are new,so there must be an explanation to this??
All the best!
Dark Horse.
Posted by ed_uk on August 15, 2005, at 7:19:36
In reply to Re: Amitriptyline is ok » KaraS, posted by darkhorse on August 15, 2005, at 7:09:37
Hi DH!
I know you like imipramine. How did desipramine and nortriptyline affect your mood?
~ed
Posted by darkhorse on August 15, 2005, at 8:15:46
In reply to Re: Amitriptyline is ok » darkhorse, posted by ed_uk on August 15, 2005, at 7:19:36
Hi ED!
>
> I know you like imipramine. How did desipramine and nortriptyline affect your mood?
>
> ~edI still think that imipramine is the most balanced AD ever, with 50+ years of proven efficacy for Major depression,PD,GAD ..etc.
I took desipramine only with sertraline and later with Fluoxetine. I do not think it made a difference,except tachycardia.
Nortriptyline is different.When I took the first few doses,I felt everything was more colourful (vision-wise)really!- Nefazodone did the same but with headeache and apathy-.Anyway,after a few days this effect was overcome by more concentration,but not so much anxiolytic effect.I just stopped it since I did not feel great benefit from it,but at least had some effect,unlike desipramine.
BTW, I notice that Venlafaxine is talked about a lot in PB.There is a lot of talk about its withdrawal . I do not know, but I think that Venlafaxine was a very very good medication for me,and,except sweating, it was a clean drug.I have not experienced the withdrawal at all!
I rank it aon top of best AD (along with imip.,Amit,&fluox).Also it is very different from the other so-called SNRIs :
- Milnacipran is a totally different one with pro aggresive action.
-Duloxetine is totally the opposite with full-blown apathy,but Venlafaxine has the same anxiolytic effect of SSRIs + better concentration and a little activation,even in a tiny dose (25mg a day).
Opinion?Dark Horse
Posted by KaraS on August 15, 2005, at 10:03:56
In reply to Re: Amitriptyline is ok » KaraS, posted by darkhorse on August 15, 2005, at 7:09:37
Good to know. You're probably right - if it were such a great AD and well as weight loss drug, then it would probably be a lot more popular by now.
K
Posted by ed_uk on August 15, 2005, at 11:01:45
In reply to Re: Amitriptyline is ok/Venlafaxine/SNRIs » ed_uk, posted by darkhorse on August 15, 2005, at 8:15:46
Hi DH!
>I do not think it made a difference,except tachycardia.
It's interesting that it didn't make you depressed or agressive like reboxetine - another NRI.
>Nortriptyline is different.When I took the first few doses,I felt everything was more colourful (vision-wise)really!- Nefazodone did the same but with headeache and apathy........
They both block 5-HT2 receptors, perhaps that could have something to do with it. Do you get the same 'colour' effect from other 5-HT2 antagonists, like amitripyline?
>Venlafaxine
It was very similar to an SSRI for me. The withdrawal wasn't too bad.
>Duloxetine is totally the opposite with full-blown apathy.......
It's interesting how many babblers switched from Effexor to Cymbalta, expecting Cymbalta to cause less apathy....... and then it caused more!
>Milnacipran
It sounds like sibutramine!
mfg :-)
~ed
Posted by SLS on August 15, 2005, at 18:09:14
In reply to Re: Sibutramine » darkhorse, posted by KaraS on August 15, 2005, at 10:03:56
> Good to know. You're probably right - if it were such a great AD and well as weight loss drug, then it would probably be a lot more popular by now.
>
> K
Peter Mueller, MD (one of the discoverers of seasonal affective disorder) swears by sibutramine. I still have it on my list of things to try.
- Scott
Posted by KaraS on August 15, 2005, at 22:01:29
In reply to Re: Sibutramine, posted by SLS on August 15, 2005, at 18:09:14
> > Good to know. You're probably right - if it were such a great AD and well as weight loss drug, then it would probably be a lot more popular by now.
> >
> > K
>
>
> Peter Mueller, MD (one of the discoverers of seasonal affective disorder) swears by sibutramine. I still have it on my list of things to try.
>
>
> - Scott
Hi Scott,I knew if I changed the title of the post to "Sibutramine" that I'd get a response from you and get a different opinion. :-)
Actually after I posted my response I thought about it some more and realized that any drug with significant NE reuptake or increase may be contraindicated for darkhorse given the list of meds that made that poster irritable and more aggressive. So my mind is open on this one again.
Kara
Posted by darkhorse on August 16, 2005, at 3:59:01
In reply to Re: Sibutramine » SLS, posted by KaraS on August 15, 2005, at 22:01:29
realized that any drug with significant NE reuptake or increase may be contraindicated for darkhorse given the list of meds that made that poster irritable and more aggressive. So my mind is open on this one again.
>
> KaraHi Kara :
I tried Desipramine,Nortriptyline and Maprotiline (The most selective NE inhibitor),and non of them made me irritable.
Dark Horse.
Posted by darkhorse on August 16, 2005, at 4:14:44
In reply to Re: Amitriptyline is ok/Venlafaxine/SNRIs » darkhorse, posted by ed_uk on August 15, 2005, at 11:01:45
> Hi ED
> It's interesting that it didn't make you depressed or agressive like reboxetine - another NRI.There must be something odd about Reboxetine.I'm sure of it!
>
> >Nortriptyline is different.When I took the first few doses,I felt everything was more colourful (vision-wise)really!- Nefazodone did the same but with headeache and apathy........
>
> They both block 5-HT2 receptors, perhaps that could have something to do with it. Do you get the same 'colour' effect from other 5-HT2 antagonists, like amitripyline?No.Maybe the strong antihistaminic effect makes ones vision more foggy than colourful!
>
> >Venlafaxine> It's interesting how many babblers switched from Effexor to Cymbalta, expecting Cymbalta to cause less apathy....... and then it caused more!
Yes,it is true.Duloxetine made me a vegetable from the 1st dose!but not Efexor.
DH
Posted by darkhorse on August 16, 2005, at 4:17:26
In reply to Re: Sibutramine, posted by darkhorse on August 16, 2005, at 3:59:01
> realized that any drug with significant NE reuptake or increase may be contraindicated for darkhorse given the list of meds that made that poster irritable and more aggressive. So my mind is open on this one again.
> >
> > Kara
>
> Hi Kara :
>
> I tried Desipramine,Nortriptyline and Maprotiline (The most selective NE inhibitor),and non of them made me irritable.
>All the best!
> Dark Horse.
>
>
Posted by ed_uk on August 16, 2005, at 5:52:37
In reply to Re: Amitriptyline is ok/Venlafaxine/SNRIs » ed_uk, posted by darkhorse on August 16, 2005, at 4:14:44
Hi DH!
>There must be something odd about Reboxetine. I'm sure of it!
I agree..... although Meri-Tuuli (on babble) is currently benefiting from it!
>Maybe the strong antihistaminic effect makes ones vision more foggy than colourful!
You could be right there!
Are you taking an AD at the moment? Or just bromazepam?
mfg!
~ed
Posted by KaraS on August 16, 2005, at 11:35:51
In reply to Re: Sibutramine, posted by darkhorse on August 16, 2005, at 3:59:01
> realized that any drug with significant NE reuptake or increase may be contraindicated for darkhorse given the list of meds that made that poster irritable and more aggressive. So my mind is open on this one again.
> >
> > Kara
>
> Hi Kara :
>
> I tried Desipramine,Nortriptyline and Maprotiline (The most selective NE inhibitor),and non of them made me irritable.
>
> Dark Horse.
>
>
Hmmm, that's interesting. I don't know why you reacted that way then. It's still not enough data for me to think that sibutramine won't be good for others.k
Posted by darkhorse on August 17, 2005, at 2:33:52
In reply to Re: Amitriptyline is ok/Venlafaxine/SNRIs » darkhorse, posted by ed_uk on August 16, 2005, at 5:52:37
> Hi ED
> Are you taking an AD at the moment? Or just bromazepam?
Yes :
Bromazepam 6mg
Venlafaxine 25mg
Amisulpride 50mg
That was for the last couple of weeks,but I'm planing to have a drug holiday soon.DH
>
> mfg!
>
> ~ed
Posted by darkhorse on August 17, 2005, at 2:41:54
In reply to Re: Sibutramine » darkhorse, posted by KaraS on August 16, 2005, at 11:35:51
It's still not enough data for me to think that sibutramine won't be good for others.
>
> k
>
>Hi Kara :
I believe that any medication can benefit some people,it is just a matter of general tolerability and marketing.I mean,Prozac was so popular,maybe because of marketing but I'm sure because a lot of people tolerate it.On the other side Valium is not marketed anymore and there is bad vibe about it in the media,but still it is the most frequently used benzo world wide.
But when a new "novel" medication comes out and does not sell well or make an impact,I think here one must be cautious about its tolerability and effectiveness for most people.
Just my opinion.Dark Horse.
Posted by KaraS on August 17, 2005, at 3:55:07
In reply to Re: Sibutramine » KaraS, posted by darkhorse on August 17, 2005, at 2:41:54
> It's still not enough data for me to think that sibutramine won't be good for others.
> >
> > k
> >
> >
>
> Hi Kara :
>
> I believe that any medication can benefit some people,it is just a matter of general tolerability and marketing.I mean,Prozac was so popular,maybe because of marketing but I'm sure because a lot of people tolerate it.On the other side Valium is not marketed anymore and there is bad vibe about it in the media,but still it is the most frequently used benzo world wide.
> But when a new "novel" medication comes out and does not sell well or make an impact,I think here one must be cautious about its tolerability and effectiveness for most people.
> Just my opinion.
>
> Dark Horse.
Maybe you're right. That was my first reaction. OTOH, maybe it wasn't marketed right or maybe people are afraid to take prescription diet drugs after Fen-Phen. It hasn't been approved as an antidepressant so that cuts down on the depression market. It seems like there are several other factors that could be involved.k
Posted by ed_uk on August 17, 2005, at 4:29:10
In reply to Re: Amitriptyline is ok/Venlafaxine/SNRIs » ed_uk, posted by darkhorse on August 17, 2005, at 2:33:52
Hi DH!
Any side effects from amisulpride? I can't rememeber when you've tried any other doses apart from 50mg. 12.5mg, 25mg, 75mg etc.
Kind regards
~ed
Posted by ed_uk on August 17, 2005, at 4:33:50
In reply to Re: Sibutramine » KaraS, posted by darkhorse on August 17, 2005, at 2:41:54
Hi DH,
Sibutramine was tested as an AD but was found to be ineffective. I wonder why?
Also, I've always wondered whether sibutramine, like SSRIs, Effexor and Cymbalta, might actually cause weight *gain* in the long run - at least in some people. I've known people to put on LOADS of weight on SSRIs and SNRIs!
Kind regards
~Ed
Posted by darkhorse on August 17, 2005, at 5:34:39
In reply to Re: Amitriptyline is ok/Venlafaxine/SNRIs » darkhorse, posted by ed_uk on August 17, 2005, at 4:29:10
> Hi DH!
>
> Any side effects from amisulpride? I can't rememeber when you've tried any other doses apart from 50mg. 12.5mg, 25mg, 75mg etc.
>
> Kind regards
>
> ~edHi ED,
I tried 50+50 within 24 hours,and no effect but also I did not notice a difference in both doses!
Sulpiride and Amisulpride at low doses nesrly do not have any side effect.
Posted by SLS on August 17, 2005, at 8:09:09
In reply to Re: Sibutramine » darkhorse, posted by ed_uk on August 17, 2005, at 4:33:50
> Hi DH,
>
> Sibutramine was tested as an AD but was found to be ineffective. I wonder why?I know it was developed as an antidepressant, but I'm not sure why the company dropped this indication in favor of obesity. Have you found any negative studies on the Net? I thought I had seen some a long time ago on Medline, but I can't find them right now.
- Scott
>
> Also, I've always wondered whether sibutramine, like SSRIs, Effexor and Cymbalta, might actually cause weight *gain* in the long run - at least in some people. I've known people to put on LOADS of weight on SSRIs and SNRIs!
>
> Kind regards
>
> ~Ed
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