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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 45. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ed_uk on June 24, 2005, at 17:53:58
Hello,
I'd like to hear from people who've had ECT. I'm not considering ECT myself but I've got a couple of friends who's pdocs have recommended ECT.
If you've had ECT, how were the electrodes placed...
1. Right unilateral
2. Left unilateral
3. Bitemporal
4. BifrontalHow often did you have ECT during the initial phase? How many treatments did you have? Did you recieve continuation or maintenance ECT? How often?
Why were you given ECT? eg. depression, schizophrenia etc.
Were you forced to have ECT or did you choose to have it?
How were you treated by your 'shock doc', did they provide you with good information? Did they undermine your side effects?
Did you tell your family/friends/boss that you were having ECT?
Before ECT, were you given a premedication?
Do you have any idea which anesthetic you received? eg. propofol (Diprivan), methohexital (Brevital), thiopental (Pentothal), etomidate (Amidate) etc.
How did you feel when you came around from the anesthetic? If you remember!!! :-O
Was ECT effective in reducing your depression/psychotic symptoms??
Do you regret having ECT........would you have it again?
What side effects did you have from ECT? eg. anterograde amnesia, retrograde amnesia. Did you ever regain your lost memories? Do you feel that you have suffered permanent cognitive damage?
After ECT, what medication did you receive to prevent relapse? eg. nortriptyline, lithium etc. If you relapsed, how quickly?
Do you believe that your ECT restored the efficacy of a 'pooped out' antidepressant?
If your course of ECT was not effective, would you consider having a different type of ECT in future? eg. bilateral instead of unilateral or high-dose unilateral instead of low-dose unilateral.
If your ECT was effective but caused substantial amnesia, would you consider having a different type of ECT in future? eg. right unilateral instead of bilateral or bifrontal instead of bitemporal.
~Ed
Posted by Nezirov on June 24, 2005, at 18:29:00
In reply to Lets talk about ECT........., posted by ed_uk on June 24, 2005, at 17:53:58
I think this procedure should be outlawed. How on earth could electrocuting someones brain and inducing forced seizures be good for them long-term? It probably produces some short-term benefits by inducing amnesia and disrupting cognition sufficiently to interrupt depressive thought patterns. But people generally get worse long-term.
Posted by Mr.Scott on June 24, 2005, at 19:03:24
In reply to Lets talk about ECT........., posted by ed_uk on June 24, 2005, at 17:53:58
This is a repost from above...Let me just add this...
I volunteer for it on an outpatient basis, and the shock doc is both kind and funny. I joke around with him before they knock me out with thiopental. I initially received 1 bilateral which I would never do again because it definately threw me for a cognitive loop! Then I received 5 additional right unilateral. I thought I was cured...4 months later I got depressed again so I received 3 right unilaterals and now I receive 1 right unilateral a month. My family, my girlfriend, and one close friend know...Otherwise I don't bother to try and explain to everyone else. I don't even discuss meds with anyone else though. Why bother?I have struggled literally hundreds of times worse with either med side effects or med withdrawals than I ever suffered from ECT. I think because of its improper use in the past, it is far underutilized today. I would not ever do it unless I consented, and I will only consent to unilateral. Forced anything for a regular old depressive or bipolar 2 who's not psychotic should be outlawed and in fact it probably is. What should really be outlawed is the loopholes by which drug companies manage to suppress data on the side effects or lack of efficacy of their products...of which every SSRI manufacturer and benzodiazepine maker is surely guilty!
----
Hello!
I have never not worked because of my depression or anxiety. I've made some poor choices possibly, and took a lot of my paid days off however. Also, ECT has never interfered with my work which has always involved working in a fast paced business environment. The first time I got it I received 6 treatments. Mon Wed Fri for two weeks. At that point I obviously needed to take 2 weeks off. Now with maintenance I go in late once a month, or take a planned sick day.
My psychologist could not believe at first that I would actually have ECT! She said that the people she has seen get it are usually in awful shape (I've had several docs tell me this), and I am without trying to brag...a high functioning nutcase (with true gratitude!) I could live in this world as my father does and be perfectly fine except very unhappy most of the time. I make jokes with the anesthesiologists before they knock me out, because I get it once a month. If I go more than 4 weeks I tend to slip into a depression that is as I mentioned probably workable, but totally unnecessary. I benefited from SSRI's for years until I developed 'odd' side effects from zoloft to say the least. I basically dealt with my depression for 4 years trying every cocktail you ever dreamed of, with only minor results and always yucky side effects.
I get ECT once a month usually on a Friday at a University hospital that has a department specializing in ECT. I go in at 630am. By 7:00am I'm out cold. By 11:00am I take 600mg of Advil for a headache and go to work. The only side effects I have are muscle aches and a headache of which ibuprofen readily takes care of. I experience no memory loss whatsoever. In fact I experienced more when I had my wisdom teeth out, and far more from many of the psychotropic drugs I been prescribed including SSRI's! I'm a touch foggy until the anesthesia wears off, but nothing time and coffee don't fix.
Keep in mind I receive right unilateral ECT, not bilateral of which I did receive one time. That was a different experience! Perhaps because my depression is not psychotic or so terrible that I want to kill myself impulsively I respond very well to the right unilateral.
ECT makes a huge difference in my life. I am a total self-absorbed *sshole when I'm depressed and I'm angry, and I misinterpret everything because I'm so sensitive and negative and anxious.
The ECT really works for me, and because it has such a bad rap from the past it is probably underutilized today. The experience is scarry at first, but I can't tell you enough that after so many years of pills and therapy and misery it seems to do the trick.
Obviously it doesn't cure my character defects, but it does allow me to work on them productively instead of complaining endlessly to my psychotherapist or arguing my rights to misery.
I finally have a life (pray it lasts) that is generally fulfilling, interesting, includes love, and ambition.
Feel free to ask any specifics and I'll be happy to answer! If you're depressed and have tried lots of meds or can't tolerate them, find out who is the best in the area with ECT (usually Universities in US). The results have been far better for me than was the misery.
Sincerely,
Scott
> Hi Scott,
>
> Can I ask you if you are working or have been working prior to having your ECT?
>
> I've been thinking about having ECT for a while now as Seroxat is no longer working very well and I have 0 sex drive which is a sign of my depression more than anything else. Was going to go on the sick from work to have it but have just been made redundant.
>
> Now I'm worried because I don't even have the motivation to apply for another job, the fact that I was made redundant didn't bother me too much but the fact that I'm depressed does and the fact that it was probably my depression and my consequential behaviour that played a part in my being made redundant.
>
> Thinking of having ECT still but just worried that it won't work, I'll have memory loss and will end up with neither the memory or the motivation to apply for a job.
>
> I guess it's just a chance you have to take though.
>
> Kind Regards........Denise
Posted by bipolarspectrum on June 24, 2005, at 20:17:28
In reply to Lets talk about ECT........., posted by ed_uk on June 24, 2005, at 17:53:58
Hi,
I had 5 unilateral and 5 bilateral ECT sessions for depression.. it didnt work... i had difficult remembering events around the ect.. i was on break from school... I wouldnt dissuade anyone from having ECT.. i hear if it works, it works really well
bps
Posted by ed_uk on June 25, 2005, at 22:41:50
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT......... » ed_uk, posted by Mr.Scott on June 24, 2005, at 19:03:24
Hi Scott!
I'd like to ask a few more questions, is that OK???
Kind regards
~Ed
Posted by Denise1966 on June 26, 2005, at 9:57:50
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT........., posted by bipolarspectrum on June 24, 2005, at 20:17:28
Bipolarspectrum,
Just wondering where you had ECT?
Denise
Posted by Denise1966 on June 26, 2005, at 9:58:05
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT........., posted by bipolarspectrum on June 24, 2005, at 20:17:28
Bipolarspectrum,
Just wondering where you had ECT?
Denise
Posted by Mr.Scott on June 26, 2005, at 13:14:00
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT......... » Mr.Scott, posted by ed_uk on June 25, 2005, at 22:41:50
Of course. Shoot!
Posted by ed_uk on June 26, 2005, at 16:37:46
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT......... » ed_uk, posted by Mr.Scott on June 26, 2005, at 13:14:00
Hi Scott,
Thanks for answering my questions :-)
>Keep in mind I receive right unilateral ECT, not bilateral of which I did receive one time.
Did you receive bifrontal or (traditional) bitemporal?
>I am a total self-absorbed *sshole when I'm depressed and I'm angry, and I misinterpret everything because I'm so sensitive and negative and anxious.
You actually seem like a different person, so much happier :-)
Before you embarked on maintenance ECT (a few months ago?), did you receive bi-weekly treatments for a while?
Do you have any concerns about continuing maintenance ECT on a long term basis?
Kind regards
~Ed
Posted by bipolarspectrum on June 26, 2005, at 18:10:32
In reply to Re: Bipolarspectrum - Where did you have ECT?, posted by Denise1966 on June 26, 2005, at 9:57:50
> Bipolarspectrum,
>
> Just wondering where you had ECT?
>
>
> Denise
Hey,
I had ECT at Toronto General..
bps
Posted by ben on June 26, 2005, at 23:50:03
In reply to Re: Bipolarspectrum - Where did you have ECT?, posted by bipolarspectrum on June 26, 2005, at 18:10:32
Can you take your medication along with ECT, like lithium or Effexor?
Posted by Mr.Scott on June 27, 2005, at 1:43:45
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT......... » Mr.Scott, posted by ed_uk on June 26, 2005, at 16:37:46
No prob!
I have only have received temporal. Only a single bilateral which I did not like (confused and memory shot for a day or two, but it came back). Never needed more than 6 in a row (3x a week for two weeks). After that it didn't take much to get the boat floating after a dip. I have no concerns about long-term ECT maintenance, although no doctor I have ever spoken to seems to have a patient who required it for more than 2 years. The brain seems to get retrained according to the 3 docs I consulted with prior to having it done. I have more concerns about daily usage of ssri's or the depression itself to be totally honest!
I wish Scientology or Religion or CBT or even 20mg of Prozac did the trick...But it didn't... I have friends who used hard drugs like crack/meth, and alcohol for long periods of time and while they were far gone for awhile...eventually with abstinence they came back. I'm not worried, and if I start to lose some functioning I have too many people around me who will let me know! Plus I trust this doc. He believes in aggressive treatment, but he's got a lot of experience and isn't reckless. He was actually reticent about ECT for me at first because he's an expert pharmacologist not a shocker by trade. But when we went down the list of meds I've tried he said okay lets do what works. He advised me to go slowly with the treatments to avoid too much disruption in my life saying eventually the brain would get with the program whether I did them back to back or spaced out over time.
I still have my moments, but they are usually with anger not depression. Anger is much easier for me to treat for me and very temporary.
Scott
> Hi Scott,
>
> Thanks for answering my questions :-)
>
> >Keep in mind I receive right unilateral ECT, not bilateral of which I did receive one time.
>
> Did you receive bifrontal or (traditional) bitemporal?
>
> >I am a total self-absorbed *sshole when I'm depressed and I'm angry, and I misinterpret everything because I'm so sensitive and negative and anxious.
>
> You actually seem like a different person, so much happier :-)
>
> Before you embarked on maintenance ECT (a few months ago?), did you receive bi-weekly treatments for a while?
>
> Do you have any concerns about continuing maintenance ECT on a long term basis?
>
> Kind regards
>
> ~Ed
Posted by Mr.Scott on June 27, 2005, at 1:51:07
In reply to Meds along with ECT?, posted by ben on June 26, 2005, at 23:50:03
Generally nothing is taken the morning of the treatment. Anticonvulsant & LiC03 dosages are frequently reduced temporarily although I'm not on them and can't speak from personal experience. Everything else remains the same. People frequently comment that the meds work better, or that in some cases they can be reduced and in other cases discontinued entirely over time.I'm down to a tiny dose of zoloft (12.5mg), clonazepam (.75mg), and adderall XR (40mg).
Scott
Posted by ed_uk on June 27, 2005, at 11:01:24
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT......... » ed_uk, posted by Mr.Scott on June 27, 2005, at 1:43:45
Hi Scott,
Are you having 'high dose' unilateral? eg. how 'high' is the shock compared with your seizure threshold?
>I have only have received temporal. Only a single bilateral which I did not like (confused and memory shot for a day or two, but it came back).
If right unilateral 'pooped out', would you try bifrontal? It's supposed to cause a less memory impairment than bitemporal.
Kind regards
~Ed
Posted by Mr.Scott on June 28, 2005, at 1:28:24
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT......... » Mr.Scott, posted by ed_uk on June 27, 2005, at 11:01:24
Hi!
Thanks for the links. I'm not entirely sure about the current to seizure stuff, but I will ask. The guy I let run the show is truly an expert and for the first time in my life I am able to leave the details of doctoring in his hands meaning I finally feel comfortable with a doc who I'm confident in. But I will ask just for my own info, and I'll get back to you. Won't be until July 18th though.
I would try anything to avoid the illness, which lets face it kills 15% of the folks who have it, and ruins the lives of god knows how many others.
I think people need to have the willingness to go to any length necessary. Unfortunately stigma, fear and misunderstanding often get in the way.
For me...life isn't worth living if you can't reap the rewards. The days of watching it pass me by while I lay in misery and tinker with ssri's are behind me. I consulted several physicians (Experts) before making my decision. And I would do the same should any changes to the current regimen be required. Whatever it takes is all I need to know these days. Luckily I finally found a doc who is as good as they come, who I trust, and who I know has my best interest at heart. (That wasn't easy by the way :-))
Scott
Posted by Mr.Scott on June 28, 2005, at 1:39:51
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT......... » Mr.Scott, posted by ed_uk on June 27, 2005, at 11:01:24
Hey Ed,
One more thing...I did speak to the doc about electrode placement. He said it really comes down to side effects not efficacy, and that since I don't have any, other than the thiopental there is no need to change anything. He also said most patients rarely need maintenance beyond 1.5 years. He mentioned one guy who hasn't had a treatment in 2 years without any recurrence.
Also...his opinion is that receiving 1 unilateral treatment a month is not likely to produce ANY long-term unexpected side effects. In fact he believes that what will be revealed in 10 or twenty years about meds currently being prescribed has him more concerned. The only risk he felt relavent was the anesthesia which always has an inherent risk. However where I get it done each patient has 4 people at one time on them (psych, anesthesiologist, cardiologist, nurse). It's a whole department with people literally lined up waiting to get in (I'm not kidding!). I've seen men in their 80's waiting (for Parkinson's and/or depression). I always see the same staff so I feel very comfortable.
Scott
Posted by ed_uk on June 28, 2005, at 2:50:51
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT......... » ed_uk, posted by Mr.Scott on June 28, 2005, at 1:39:51
Hi Scott,
>I'm not entirely sure about the current to seizure stuff, but I will ask.
Thank you :-) I think it's common to dose RUL ECT at 6 x the seizure threshold.
>I did speak to the doc about electrode placement. He said it really comes down to side effects not efficacy, and that since I don't have any..........
I dont't think you'll need to change :-) I just thought I'd mention bifrontal ECT in case RUL unexpectedly pooped out.
Btw, how long does it take for you to 'orient' yourself after ECT??
Kind regards
~Ed
Posted by Denise1966 on June 28, 2005, at 9:55:35
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT......... » ed_uk, posted by Mr.Scott on June 28, 2005, at 1:39:51
Sorry, hope this doesn't sound like a stupid question it's just that there is a lady who lives round the corner from me who has had ECT and talks a bit childishly, without wanting to be derogatory, she sounds slow, sort of half soaped. Anyway, my mum has spoken to her and she has also spoken to another lady who talks in exactly the same way who has also had ect.
I didn't pay too much attention to this until today I spoke to this man on the phone who'd had it and he talks in exactly the same way.
Is this something that ECT can do or it is just a symptom of people who suffer from depression, I know I don't tend to talk like this just occassionally when I'm really bad a bit flat and monotone.
Thanks Denise.
Posted by Sebastian on June 28, 2005, at 18:58:15
In reply to Lets talk about ECT........., posted by ed_uk on June 24, 2005, at 17:53:58
> Hello,
>
> I'd like to hear from people who've had ECT. I'm not considering ECT myself but I've got a couple of friends who's pdocs have recommended ECT.ECT is the strongest med out there.
>
> If you've had ECT, how were the electrodes placed...
>
> 1. Right unilateral
> 2. Left unilateral
> 3. Bitemporal
> 4. BifrontalThey did not tell me.
>
> How often did you have ECT during the initial phase? How many treatments did you have? Did you recieve continuation or maintenance ECT? How often?I had ECT probably every day for about a month.
>
> Why were you given ECT? eg. depression, schizophrenia etc.They did not tell me that either.
>
> Were you forced to have ECT or did you choose to have it?They forced me.
>
> How were you treated by your 'shock doc', did they provide you with good information? Did they undermine your side effects?They draged me out of bed unexpectidly and gave me the ECT. After the ECT memory was nothing. The only thing I came to expect was a heavy dose of morfine (spelling). and then I would pass out.
>
> Did you tell your family/friends/boss that you were having ECT?I was jobless and in hospital.
>
> Before ECT, were you given a premedication?They gave me lots of medications at the time, no I don't know what they were giving me.
>
> Do you have any idea which anesthetic you received? eg. propofol (Diprivan), methohexital (Brevital), thiopental (Pentothal), etomidate (Amidate) etc.morphine is what they told me.
>
> How did you feel when you came around from the anesthetic? If you remember!!! :-OLike my brain was dead, compleatly fried. Probably the effects of ECT. Often I woke up not knowing what had happened. Once I even thought I was just born and in an alien world, because I did not reconize anything that I was looking at. Which after a while I decided it was a radio.
>
> Was ECT effective in reducing your depression/psychotic symptoms??I didn't know what depression was after. In fact I didn't know what anything was.
>
> Do you regret having ECT........would you have it again?I would never do ECT again. I wish I had not had so many of them. After ECT it was like starting life over again. Not to mention my brain could not think or most importanly remember any thing.
>
> What side effects did you have from ECT? eg. anterograde amnesia, retrograde amnesia. Did you ever regain your lost memories? Do you feel that you have suffered permanent cognitive damage?Ten years later and I still have not regained some memories. Slowly over the years things would come back to me. And all the time my exgirlfreind of the time would and still does remind me of things I have only seen in dreams and some times don't remember.
>
> After ECT, what medication did you receive to prevent relapse? eg. nortriptyline, lithium etc. If you relapsed, how quickly?After ECT I refused to take any meds. So I went medless and would relapse and end up in hospital again.
Finaly I started taking zyprexa a year later. Since the zyprexa I have not needed any ECT. I took zyprexa for 7-8 years and now I'm switching to geodon which seems to work for the last 6 months.
>
> Do you believe that your ECT restored the efficacy of a 'pooped out' antidepressant?Before ECT I had not taken many or much medication. And aparently none was working. Meds that I had taken in hospital.
>
> If your course of ECT was not effective, would you consider having a different type of ECT in future? eg. bilateral instead of unilateral or high-dose unilateral instead of low-dose unilateral.Never again. I remember things much better when I smoke pot heavly for many years. I did reach a point when I quit pot and after 3 years the memories got bad again. And yes ECT did cross my mind. But instead I smoked a little pot and seem to have gotten over the whole idea.
>
> If your ECT was effective but caused substantial amnesia, would you consider having a different type of ECT in future? eg. right unilateral instead of bilateral or bifrontal instead of bitemporal.once again all I know is that I had ECT, it took many years to get that much information out of them.
>
> ~Ed
>
>
Posted by ed_uk on June 29, 2005, at 2:26:00
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT........., posted by Sebastian on June 28, 2005, at 18:58:15
Hi Ivan,
>They forced me.
>They draged me out of bed unexpectidly and gave me the ECT.How awful, I'm sorry you had to go through that.
>Like my brain was dead, compleatly fried.
It sounds like you probably had bitemporal ECT.
>Once I even thought I was just born and in an alien world, because I did not reconize anything that I was looking at.
That sounds very frightening.
Thank you for posting :-)
~Ed
Posted by ed_uk on June 29, 2005, at 7:12:43
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT......... » ed_uk, posted by Mr.Scott on June 28, 2005, at 1:39:51
Hi Scott,
Thanks for being so kind and answering my questions :-)
I remember you saying that you suffered from a lot of anxiety.
I wanted to ask.........
What effect has ECT had on your anxiety?? .......and what sort of anxiety do you suffer from?
Thank you :-)
Kind regards
~Ed
Posted by Mr.Scott on June 29, 2005, at 22:46:12
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT......... » Mr.Scott, posted by ed_uk on June 28, 2005, at 2:50:51
Hi.
I know it's not recommended, but I can drive a couple hours later without noticing much except muscle aches. I'd say 2 hours and I'm back to full functioning...Maybe 3 or 4 a couple times..
But nothing so bad I can't carry on a high level discussion even 30 minutes after waking up.
Scott
Posted by Mr.Scott on June 29, 2005, at 22:52:10
In reply to Re:Can ECT change the way you speak?, posted by Denise1966 on June 28, 2005, at 9:55:35
No worries on the question, but it made me smile.
I'd probably look more at depression and meds. Usually the average person getting it is pretty severely depressed. I am pretty animated and generally a type A personality unless depressed whereupon I am lethargic and perhaps monotone due to apathy and depression, but thats only at my worst which was probably two winters ago. You can call me anytime...I doubt you'll find me monotone today. If anything (particularly after drinking several cups of coffee) I'll sound quite gregarious and possibly even intense.
Scott
Posted by Mr.Scott on June 29, 2005, at 23:15:55
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT........., posted by Sebastian on June 28, 2005, at 18:58:15
Thats an awful story...What do you generally suffer from that requires Zyprexa?Scott
Posted by ed_uk on June 30, 2005, at 10:07:52
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT......... » ed_uk, posted by Mr.Scott on June 29, 2005, at 22:46:12
Hi Scott,
>I'd say 2 hours and I'm back to full functioning...
Wow :-) How long did it take after bitemporal?
~Ed
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