![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 59. Go back in thread:
Posted by SLS on June 20, 2005, at 6:31:35
In reply to Re: Down and out » Maxime, posted by 4WD on June 20, 2005, at 0:59:31
> Hi.
>
> I'm very depressed right now. I haven't even bothered taking my Parnate. Just fed up I guess.Yeah. I really do know how you feel. You don't have to do anything you don't want to do, but I would encourage you to stick to the plan as long as it isn't hurting you. This bad time will pass. When it does, you don't want to look back with regret at how much time you will have lost in following your treatment algorithm.
It seems that you are always just on the verge of burn-out. These bad times will probably come and go frequently because you have very little reserve positive energy to get you through trial after trial. It might be a good idea to begin looking for ways to increase positive energy and avoid negative energy.
"Gee, Scott. How do I do THAT?"
Give me some time to think about it. Increasing positive energy reserves will mean different things to different people. Some people go on vacations to new and distant places if they are capable of it. Some people just go for walks and pay attention to the small joys that the world offers. Some people engage in more rigorous exercise if they can. Read anything other than Psycho-Babble posts. I don't know.
Here's what we can do. Why don't you begin a list of things that bring you even the smallest amount of joy. What do you like to do? What things can you do to distract yourself and for a short while be anything other than your depression. You will still be biologically depressed doing these things, but at least for a little while you can be something other than your depression.
YOU ARE NOT YOUR DEPRESSION.
Don't let it fool you. You are Maxime. You are all of the wonderful things that you think, feel, and do inside and out. You are not depression.
Do something nice for yourself today. Do not get caught-up in how your depression gets in the way of enjoying it completely. Just experience the good feelings that it *does* give you. Put your depression away for a little while. It will be there when you get back.
So...
What are you going to do nice for yourself today?
I'm going to go for a walk and listen to some Jethro Tull along the way. I'm going to put a really cool aquarium computer screen-saver on my mother's machine. She will really like it. I will feel joy for watching her reaction for having done such a simple thing.
What are you going to do nice for yourself today?
I await your answer.
I might be away from my computer for awhile. I have to pick up my mother from the hospital, but I'll be thinking about you and will remain very curious as to what you come up with. In the meantime, start making that list.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on June 20, 2005, at 9:10:29
In reply to Down and out, posted by Maxime on June 19, 2005, at 22:53:21
Posted by Maxime on June 20, 2005, at 12:54:03
In reply to Re: Down and out » Maxime, posted by 4WD on June 20, 2005, at 0:59:31
> > Hi.
> >
> > I'm very depressed right now. I haven't even bothered taking my Parnate. Just fed up I guess.
> >
> > There is some babble-mail that I haven't responded to yet ... I'm sorry. I'll do my best to respond tomorrow (if my computer works).
> >
> > Maxime
>
> I'm so sorry, Maxime. Please try to just keep doing the next right thing. Take your meds. Even if you feel taking them won't help, try to remember that NOT taking them isn't likely to help either. I get that like sometimes, so I understand. When is your next appointment with your pdoc?
>
> MarshaI see him tomorrow. He will just say the same thing he always does. I don't know why I bother going.
Maxime
Posted by Maxime on June 20, 2005, at 13:03:20
In reply to Re: Down and out » 4WD, posted by SLS on June 20, 2005, at 6:31:35
Hi Scott.
I went for a bike ride. That was one good thing I did for myself. Well it was suppose to be. But I still had negative thoughts as I cycled. So I got some exercise. Yesterday I hiked 15 miles.
I don't know how to tell the negative voices to shut up. They are very loud. They put me down all the time.
I hope your mom is okay.
Maxime
> > Hi.
> >
> > I'm very depressed right now. I haven't even bothered taking my Parnate. Just fed up I guess.
>
> Yeah. I really do know how you feel. You don't have to do anything you don't want to do, but I would encourage you to stick to the plan as long as it isn't hurting you. This bad time will pass. When it does, you don't want to look back with regret at how much time you will have lost in following your treatment algorithm.
>
> It seems that you are always just on the verge of burn-out. These bad times will probably come and go frequently because you have very little reserve positive energy to get you through trial after trial. It might be a good idea to begin looking for ways to increase positive energy and avoid negative energy.
>
> "Gee, Scott. How do I do THAT?"
>
> Give me some time to think about it. Increasing positive energy reserves will mean different things to different people. Some people go on vacations to new and distant places if they are capable of it. Some people just go for walks and pay attention to the small joys that the world offers. Some people engage in more rigorous exercise if they can. Read anything other than Psycho-Babble posts. I don't know.
>
> Here's what we can do. Why don't you begin a list of things that bring you even the smallest amount of joy. What do you like to do? What things can you do to distract yourself and for a short while be anything other than your depression. You will still be biologically depressed doing these things, but at least for a little while you can be something other than your depression.
>
> YOU ARE NOT YOUR DEPRESSION.
>
> Don't let it fool you. You are Maxime. You are all of the wonderful things that you think, feel, and do inside and out. You are not depression.
>
> Do something nice for yourself today. Do not get caught-up in how your depression gets in the way of enjoying it completely. Just experience the good feelings that it *does* give you. Put your depression away for a little while. It will be there when you get back.
>
> So...
>
> What are you going to do nice for yourself today?
>
> I'm going to go for a walk and listen to some Jethro Tull along the way. I'm going to put a really cool aquarium computer screen-saver on my mother's machine. She will really like it. I will feel joy for watching her reaction for having done such a simple thing.
>
> What are you going to do nice for yourself today?
>
> I await your answer.
>
> I might be away from my computer for awhile. I have to pick up my mother from the hospital, but I'll be thinking about you and will remain very curious as to what you come up with. In the meantime, start making that list.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by ed_uk on June 20, 2005, at 16:21:39
In reply to Re: Down and out » 4WD, posted by Maxime on June 20, 2005, at 12:54:03
Dear Maxi,
>I see him tomorrow.
Are you going to ask for Dexedrine Spansules or Provigil?
Love,
Ed xx
Posted by Racer on June 20, 2005, at 18:16:13
In reply to Re: Down and out » 4WD, posted by Maxime on June 20, 2005, at 12:54:03
>
> I see him tomorrow. He will just say the same thing he always does. I don't know why I bother going.
>
> MaximeUm, maybe because you still have enough hope to keep you going, just a little further? Nothing wrong with that, it beats the alternatives.
Here's a half-formed thought: if you think that he's going to say the same thing, maybe you need to make sure you *don't* say the same things you usually say? Does that make sense? If you change the way you approach him, it may force him to change the way you responds to you. (I'm thinking about how I finally got out of some bad ruts with my mother. {shrug} Worked with her...)
If you haven't tried Provigil, it's worth a try. For some people, it's not fun at all, but for others -- like me -- it's a good augmenting agent for antidepressants. Even on its own, it tends to boost my mood a bit. Also, it doesn't affect my sleep -- actually, strike that. I think I started sleeping a lot better when I started taking it...
Right now, for what it's worth, I'm experimenting with not taking it, because I'm way too overstimulated with Provigil and Wellbutrin, and I need the Wellbutrin. Cross your fingers for me, eh?
xoxo
Posted by Phillipa on June 20, 2005, at 19:31:33
In reply to Re: Down and out, posted by Racer on June 20, 2005, at 18:16:13
Maxime, I knew something was wrong. It's not like you not to be on Babble. You answered one post and that's all I think. Why do you stop the parnate. It was helping some. That was some hike you took yesterday! Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on June 20, 2005, at 21:47:16
In reply to Re: Down and out » Maxime, posted by ed_uk on June 20, 2005, at 16:21:39
> Dear Maxi,
>
> >I see him tomorrow.
>
> Are you going to ask for Dexedrine Spansules or Provigil?
>
> Love,
> Ed xxProvigil I think.
Maxime
Posted by Maxime on June 20, 2005, at 21:50:21
In reply to Re: Down and out, posted by Phillipa on June 20, 2005, at 19:31:33
> Maxime, I knew something was wrong. It's not like you not to be on Babble. You answered one post and that's all I think. Why do you stop the parnate. It was helping some. That was some hike you took yesterday! Fondly, Phillipa
I stopped the Parnate because I wasn't feeling good enough on it and then I just got pissed off. It was helping some, but nothing like before and I just want to give up.
Maxime
Posted by Maxime on June 20, 2005, at 21:51:38
In reply to Re: Down and out, posted by Racer on June 20, 2005, at 18:16:13
> >
> > I see him tomorrow. He will just say the same thing he always does. I don't know why I bother going.
> >
> > Maxime
>
> Um, maybe because you still have enough hope to keep you going, just a little further? Nothing wrong with that, it beats the alternatives.
>
> Here's a half-formed thought: if you think that he's going to say the same thing, maybe you need to make sure you *don't* say the same things you usually say? Does that make sense? If you change the way you approach him, it may force him to change the way you responds to you. (I'm thinking about how I finally got out of some bad ruts with my mother. {shrug} Worked with her...)
>
> If you haven't tried Provigil, it's worth a try. For some people, it's not fun at all, but for others -- like me -- it's a good augmenting agent for antidepressants. Even on its own, it tends to boost my mood a bit. Also, it doesn't affect my sleep -- actually, strike that. I think I started sleeping a lot better when I started taking it...
>
> Right now, for what it's worth, I'm experimenting with not taking it, because I'm way too overstimulated with Provigil and Wellbutrin, and I need the Wellbutrin. Cross your fingers for me, eh?
>
> xoxo*fingers crossed*
Maxime
Posted by 4WD on June 20, 2005, at 23:15:13
In reply to Re: Down and out » 4WD, posted by Maxime on June 20, 2005, at 12:54:03
> > > Hi.
> > >
> > > I'm very depressed right now. I haven't even bothered taking my Parnate. Just fed up I guess.
> > >
> > > There is some babble-mail that I haven't responded to yet ... I'm sorry. I'll do my best to respond tomorrow (if my computer works).
> > >
> > > Maxime
> >
> > I'm so sorry, Maxime. Please try to just keep doing the next right thing. Take your meds. Even if you feel taking them won't help, try to remember that NOT taking them isn't likely to help either. I get that like sometimes, so I understand. When is your next appointment with your pdoc?
> >
> > Marsha
>
> I see him tomorrow. He will just say the same thing he always does. I don't know why I bother going.
>
> Maxime
What is it he always says? Just keep doing what you're doing?There's got to be something else to try. Does he know how bad you're feeling? Tell him. I feel so bad for you. I wish there were something you could take other than the Dexedrine. I just feel like the crash from that isn't worth it.
Marsha
Posted by Maxime on June 21, 2005, at 13:41:34
In reply to Re: Down and out » Maxime, posted by 4WD on June 20, 2005, at 23:15:13
Hi
My appointment was a little different this time. We did more therapy than usual. He has this exercise that I must do all the time (CBT). I have a very poor view of myself and he says that has to change to help the meds work better for me.
I have script for Provigil. I can't fill it until next week because I don't have any money.
We will see how it goes.
Maxime
Posted by ed_uk on June 21, 2005, at 13:53:19
In reply to Re: Down and out, posted by Maxime on June 21, 2005, at 13:41:34
Hi Maxi,
>My appointment was a little different this time. We did more therapy than usual. He has this exercise that I must do all the time (CBT).
I think that's excellent, I'm glad you're appointment was a little different. I am very hopeful for you.
>I have script for Provigil.
I hope it gives you the energy you need :-)
Love,
Ed xxx
Posted by Phillipa on June 21, 2005, at 18:04:45
In reply to Re: Down and out » Maxime, posted by ed_uk on June 21, 2005, at 13:53:19
Maxime, I know you are familiar with CBT. You recently posted to me that I should start writing down your internal voice and come up with alternatives. You also mentioned the books by Dr. Burns. You said it helps with self-esteem. I know the process but it's hard to do when you don't feel well. Glad you had more time for therapy. And sorry about the money. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by 4WD on June 21, 2005, at 22:42:58
In reply to Re: Down and out, posted by Maxime on June 21, 2005, at 13:41:34
> Hi
>
> My appointment was a little different this time. We did more therapy than usual. He has this exercise that I must do all the time (CBT). I have a very poor view of myself and he says that has to change to help the meds work better for me.
>
> I have script for Provigil. I can't fill it until next week because I don't have any money.
>
> We will see how it goes.
>
> Maxime
>
>
I was thinking my meds would help my view of myself change but I can see how it could work in reverse as well. It's awfully hard to do an "attitude adjustment" when you are depressed, though. I mean, if you could just decide to do that, we'd all be well.I feel hopeful the Provigil will treat you better. I just feel like when all your stimulant type meds wear off (the Parnate and the Dex), you have a bad crash that's worse than no up at all.
Marsha
Posted by Maxime on June 22, 2005, at 0:01:58
In reply to Re: Down and out, posted by Phillipa on June 21, 2005, at 18:04:45
> Maxime, I know you are familiar with CBT. You recently posted to me that I should start writing down your internal voice and come up with alternatives. You also mentioned the books by Dr. Burns. You said it helps with self-esteem. I know the process but it's hard to do when you don't feel well. Glad you had more time for therapy. And sorry about the money. Fondly, Phillipa
Thanks for caring Phillipa. I appreciate it.
Maxime
Posted by Maxime on June 22, 2005, at 0:03:18
In reply to Re: Down and out » Maxime, posted by ed_uk on June 21, 2005, at 13:53:19
Dear Ed .... MUAH!
Maxime
> Hi Maxi,
>
> >My appointment was a little different this time. We did more therapy than usual. He has this exercise that I must do all the time (CBT).
>
> I think that's excellent, I'm glad you're appointment was a little different. I am very hopeful for you.
>
> >I have script for Provigil.
>
> I hope it gives you the energy you need :-)
>
> Love,
> Ed xxx
Posted by Maxime on June 22, 2005, at 0:05:58
In reply to Re: Down and out » Maxime, posted by 4WD on June 21, 2005, at 22:42:58
Hi Marsha. I agree with you. But if I work a little on it everyday, MAYBE something will sink in. If there was a pill for self-esteem I would take it.
I will let you know how the Provigil goes next week. I hope I don't crash.
Hugs.
Maxime
> > Hi
> >
> > My appointment was a little different this time. We did more therapy than usual. He has this exercise that I must do all the time (CBT). I have a very poor view of myself and he says that has to change to help the meds work better for me.
> >
> > I have script for Provigil. I can't fill it until next week because I don't have any money.
> >
> > We will see how it goes.
> >
> > Maxime
> >
> >
>
>
> I was thinking my meds would help my view of myself change but I can see how it could work in reverse as well. It's awfully hard to do an "attitude adjustment" when you are depressed, though. I mean, if you could just decide to do that, we'd all be well.
>
> I feel hopeful the Provigil will treat you better. I just feel like when all your stimulant type meds wear off (the Parnate and the Dex), you have a bad crash that's worse than no up at all.
>
> Marsha
>
Posted by Maxime on June 22, 2005, at 0:24:26
In reply to Re: Down and out » Maxime, posted by 4WD on June 21, 2005, at 22:42:58
The crappy part of my appointment.
My pdoc is big into exercising to fight depression. But he knows that when you are really down you can't motivate yourself to exercise. But I have been hiking and cycling every day. It hasn't helped yet. He keeps on stressing the exercise. I used to be a compulsive exerciser. I've told him this sevral times but I guess he has forgotten. So today he said try to exercise more. I just kept my mouth shut. At this point I figure what is the point?
I have to keep a mood journal for my pdoc. I plot my mood on a scale on 1-10 and then right in any situational factors that may have contributed to my mood.
This time across the top, I made some extra notations.
1 - My tiredness
2 - Some stuff I can't mention here
3 - How much I hate the way I look and feel about myself and how I want to be at low weight again.Re. # 3 - He said that if I exercise enough and eat properly I can reach my low weight again. HELLO MY LOW WEIGHT WAS 70 POUNDS!
I've talk to him before about my ED and my history with anorexia. I guess he forgets. I guess he sees a big fat person in front of him and doesn't worry about it. I take it as a green light to continue to starve myself. I am not thin enough for him to be concerned. Again, I just kept my mouth shut because I thought "are you a moron?" and "I am worthless fat nothing who doesn't deserve help". He probably doesn't believe me that I have a problem. But I have been given the go ahead to get back to low weight.
I also wish he could have thought of alternatives for the Parnate like taking the Manerix is super high dosages. Or increasing my Trileptal. I mentioned it (the trileptal) and he said no. He believes it cold be bringing my mood down. Well there is only one way to find out, right?
So that's the crappy portion of my appointment. Do I have the right to be angry over the low weight comment? Or am I over reacting?
Maxie, the beached whale
Posted by ed_uk on June 22, 2005, at 10:21:06
In reply to Re: Down and out, posted by Maxime on June 22, 2005, at 0:24:26
Hi Maxie, (like the new spelling?)
MUAH!
>I used to be a compulsive exerciser.
It sounds like he's focussing on your mood disorder at the expense of your ED. I think you said he specialises in mood disorders so that could be why. Perhaps he just doesn't know anything about AN. That's the problem with 'specialists' - they tend not to be very broad.
>I guess he sees a big fat person in front of him and doesn't worry about it.
You look really lovely on the photo I've got of you :-)
>Manerix is super high dosages........
What does he think of this idea? Maybe 900-1200mg?
>I mentioned it (the trileptal) and he said no. He believes it cold be bringing my mood down. Well there is only one way to find out, right?
I agree. SLS is finding Trileptal helpful for depression.
Love,
~Ed
xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Posted by Maxime on June 22, 2005, at 22:16:49
In reply to Re: Down and out » Maxime, posted by ed_uk on June 22, 2005, at 10:21:06
Hi, yes he does specialise in mood disorders. And yes, the psychopharmacologist said 1000-1200 mg of Manerix.
I don't think I look lovely at all. But thank you for the compliment. :-)
xxxx
Maxie> Hi Maxie, (like the new spelling?)
>
> MUAH!
>
> >I used to be a compulsive exerciser.
>
> It sounds like he's focussing on your mood disorder at the expense of your ED. I think you said he specialises in mood disorders so that could be why. Perhaps he just doesn't know anything about AN. That's the problem with 'specialists' - they tend not to be very broad.
>
> >I guess he sees a big fat person in front of him and doesn't worry about it.
>
> You look really lovely on the photo I've got of you :-)
>
> >Manerix is super high dosages........
>
> What does he think of this idea? Maybe 900-1200mg?
>
> >I mentioned it (the trileptal) and he said no. He believes it cold be bringing my mood down. Well there is only one way to find out, right?
>
> I agree. SLS is finding Trileptal helpful for depression.
>
> Love,
>
> ~Ed
>
> xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Posted by Maxime on June 22, 2005, at 22:29:13
In reply to Re: Down and out, posted by Maxime on June 22, 2005, at 0:24:26
How quickly one's life can change. I got a job offer today and I accepted it. I will be moving though to another province. ACK! I have so much to do! I had 3 interviews for this job. There were over 300 applicants for it! I am freaking out because I can't let my depression show or screw me up ... screw up this amazing opportuntity. It's my dream job. I keep thinking they made mistake or something.
So that means finding a new pdoc where I will be living. I am sure I will wait for months before I can see him or her. But first I will have to find a general practitioner and then get a referral to a pdoc. Yup, it will take months.
Maxime
Posted by Phillipa on June 22, 2005, at 23:03:15
In reply to Re: Down and out ... Now just overwhelmed, posted by Maxime on June 22, 2005, at 22:29:13
Congratulations Maxie! I knew you would get the job. And you kept telling me that you really didn't feel good. Well, you must put on a pretty good act! I know what you mean about moving and getting new docs and all. Right now Greg and I are looking at doing the same thing. There are no jobs here. What about your Mother? Will she go with you? Congratulations to you Congratulations to you! Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by 4WD on June 22, 2005, at 23:13:07
In reply to Re: Down and out, posted by Maxime on June 22, 2005, at 0:24:26
> The crappy part of my appointment.
>
> My pdoc is big into exercising to fight depression. But he knows that when you are really down you can't motivate yourself to exercise. But I have been hiking and cycling every day. It hasn't helped yet. He keeps on stressing the exercise. I used to be a compulsive exerciser. I've told him this sevral times but I guess he has forgotten. So today he said try to exercise more. I just kept my mouth shut. At this point I figure what is the point?
>
I understand completely. I don't have the exact situation but I told my pdoc when I first saw him that I couldn't take more than 10mg of Celexa because the muscle tension it causes in my neck and shoulders causes really intense pain. On my last visit, he told me to increase the Celexa to 20mg. Idiot! I mentioned it again and he just said try it again. Idiot! Idiot!> I have to keep a mood journal for my pdoc. I plot my mood on a scale on 1-10 and then right in any situational factors that may have contributed to my mood.
>
> This time across the top, I made some extra notations.
>
> 1 - My tiredness
> 2 - Some stuff I can't mention here
> 3 - How much I hate the way I look and feel about myself and how I want to be at low weight again.
>
> Re. # 3 - He said that if I exercise enough and eat properly I can reach my low weight again. HELLO MY LOW WEIGHT WAS 70 POUNDS!
>
> I've talk to him before about my ED and my history with anorexia. I guess he forgets. I guess he sees a big fat person in front of him and doesn't worry about it. I take it as a green light to continue to starve myself. I am not thin enough for him to be concerned. Again, I just kept my mouth shut because I thought "are you a moron?" and "I am worthless fat nothing who doesn't deserve help". He probably doesn't believe me that I have a problem. But I have been given the go ahead to get back to low weight.I also have an eating disorder - bulimia. I'm in remission but he (the pdoc) knows I've only been in remission for a few months. So what atypical does he prescribe? Zyprexa. Idiot!
>
> I also wish he could have thought of alternatives for the Parnate like taking the Manerix is super high dosages. Or increasing my Trileptal. I mentioned it (the trileptal) and he said no. He believes it cold be bringing my mood down. Well there is only one way to find out, right?
>
> So that's the crappy portion of my appointment. Do I have the right to be angry over the low weight comment? Or am I over reacting?
>
I'd have asked him whether he remembered you were anorexic. It's ridiculous that he told you to use exercise and diet to get to your "low weight." Stuff like that is why I think they don't have a clue who we are when we walk in their office until they look at our charts. ANd then they just glance in order to get our names and what med we're currently on. It makes me furious for you and for me and for all of us.> Maxie, the beached whale
Maxime, are you actually overweight or are you caught up in the negative body image thing?
Marsha
Posted by MidnightBlue on June 22, 2005, at 23:40:45
In reply to Re: Down and out ... Now just overwhelmed, posted by Maxime on June 22, 2005, at 22:29:13
Maxime,
This is the most AWESOME news! Didn't I tell you God would come through at the last minute!
Of course you can do this job. And of course they did NOT make a mistake giving it to you! You are smart, funny, and such a kind person. How could they not want YOU above all others?
I haven't posted for over a week, but you have lured me out of my silence! I am sure you will find the right doctors in your new province. Meanwhile keep posting here and we will help you keep it all together.
Many hugs and best wishes,
MidnightBlue
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.