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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 7 to 31 of 31. Go back in thread:
Posted by Ritch on December 31, 2004, at 18:12:59
In reply to Wellbutrin and Rage!, posted by ed_uk on December 31, 2004, at 11:19:58
Yep, WB, Buspar, and Remeron (and oddly..Zonegran) were the worst offenders for me. Anything that is yohimbine like (alpha-2 antagonism) really flips me out.
Posted by ed_uk on December 31, 2004, at 18:26:44
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and Rage! » ed_uk, posted by Ritch on December 31, 2004, at 18:12:59
Hi Ritch!
What happened when you took Remeron?
What happened when you took Buspar?
Zonegran also made you aggressive?Thank you,
Ed.
Posted by yellowbrickroad on December 31, 2004, at 22:47:49
In reply to Wellbutrin and Rage!, posted by ed_uk on December 31, 2004, at 11:19:58
I was on meds for five years. Tried Prozac, Paxil, and Celexa long-term. They helped but made me sooooooo stupid. Paxil worked the longest until I started sleeping 12+ hours/day and still felt exhausted.
I started Wellbutrin. It was the first thing that allowed me to remember my SAT words and didn't kill my sex drive (on Prozac..."Men? what men? no, I wouldn't do THAT with a man, would I? you're joking, surely"...On Celexa, "what were we talking about?...look, I have HANDS!!!").
However, I started having crying jags while on Wellbutrin alone, so my doctor added lithium. Worked like magic.
Two years later, I started thinking that my neighbors were all talking about me, especially if they had the irritating habit of conversing in a language I didn't speak. Even strangers on the Metro MUST be talking about me, looking at me, laughing at me, thinking bad things about me.
I had a friend who'd also taken it, and about the third time she mentioned having been kept up at night by the "people who were trying to break into her apartment", it occurred to me that the Wellbutrin might have a hand in my own paranoid fantasies. I researched this problem on the net and found that some people do get a little nutty on the drug.
I told my doctor. He was dismissive. I said I would take myself off of it cold turkey or he could help me find a safer approach. He let me cut my dose to 150 (I had been on 300), and the paranoia WENT AWAY. But the crying came back.
I switched doctors. We went up to 200, and I found my magic bullet again. Enough to keep me stable but not enough to make me nutty. Again, I think it's worth noting that I was taking lithium together with the Wellbutrin. Lithium is said to boost the effectiveness of antidepressants, even for the non-bipolar, when taken together.
I should also mention that my friend and I that had the psychosis problems with the drug are both diagnosed with atypical depression, which in both our cases means that our doctors aren't sure if we have Bipolar II or not. I've never been manic under observation...but I HAVE baked every item in the Better Homes and Gardens Cook Book in a two week period. Hmmm.... And my friend has had some truly interesting shopping and raging experiences. Hmmm....
I'm not on meds at the moment. If I ever have to go back on them, I will consider Wellbutrin before other antidepressants because it is the only one that doesn't seem to lower my IQ or make me completely asexual. But I'm not a brand loyalist. I know that what works one time may not work the next. What works for one person may not work for another. And, if I haven't tried a particular therapy (medication), how do I know that it won't help me?
I like to keep an open mind with medications. And talking to others on those drugs and KEEPING A WRITTEN RECORD of my experiences in invaluable.
Alright, I've made my (very long) contribution.
Hope someone gets something out of it.
YBR
Posted by yellowbrickroad on December 31, 2004, at 22:52:50
In reply to I LOVE to talk about Wellbutrin » ed_uk, posted by yellowbrickroad on December 31, 2004, at 22:47:49
Also,
Happy New Year!!!
YBR
Posted by anastasia56 on January 1, 2005, at 0:29:47
In reply to Re: I LOVE to talk about Wellbutrin, posted by yellowbrickroad on December 31, 2004, at 22:52:50
wellbutrin made me very irritable. my personality on wellbutrin reminded me of when i was in college years ago and taking birth control pills for the first time. Back then they were still the full strength birth control pills so you would get the side effects...or i did anyway...depression, rage, anger, pissiness. wellbutrin brought all that back. not a way i would choose to relive the past so now i avoid wellbutrin.
anastasia
Posted by Ritch on January 1, 2005, at 10:25:28
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and Rage! » Ritch, posted by ed_uk on December 31, 2004, at 18:26:44
> Hi Ritch!
>
> What happened when you took Remeron?
> What happened when you took Buspar?
> Zonegran also made you aggressive?
>
> Thank you,
> Ed.Remeron? Just became very hateful and mean, intolerant. The same with the other two. Road rage is probably the best way to describe it, except I wasn't driving. Lots of continuous ruminating hostile thoughts. Zonegran was a surprise. I took 100mg before bedtime and got up the next day (after a lot of weird dreams) and just went off all day long and into the next day.. very odd paradoxical reaction. I had something like that happen from valium, but not clonazepam, lorazepam, etc.
Posted by stresser on January 1, 2005, at 11:56:19
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and Rage! » ed_uk, posted by Ritch on January 1, 2005, at 10:25:28
This is all coming together now for me....thank you for the information from everyone. My daughter is also taking Wellbutrin, and I have noticed that she is behaving very oddly lately. Other than being 16, she is hateful, mean, and just seems to have it in for everyone around her these days. She is also getting the sweats as she did when she took wellbutrin before. I think this drug is making her intolerant as well, and I didn't consider that maybe it was more than just being a teenager and the basic mood swings that are normal. Wellbutrin must affect both of us in the same way......and why not? We are both VERY much alike. I do like Wellbutrin because it is weight neutral, and there are no sexual side-effects (for me). What else is there that would be comperable to that?-L
Posted by Ritch on January 1, 2005, at 14:14:05
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and Rage!, posted by stresser on January 1, 2005, at 11:56:19
> This is all coming together now for me....thank you for the information from everyone. My daughter is also taking Wellbutrin, and I have noticed that she is behaving very oddly lately. Other than being 16, she is hateful, mean, and just seems to have it in for everyone around her these days. She is also getting the sweats as she did when she took wellbutrin before. I think this drug is making her intolerant as well, and I didn't consider that maybe it was more than just being a teenager and the basic mood swings that are normal. Wellbutrin must affect both of us in the same way......and why not? We are both VERY much alike. I do like Wellbutrin because it is weight neutral, and there are no sexual side-effects (for me). What else is there that would be comperable to that?-L
I wished I knew, so I could try it. The only thing that comes to mind, that would fit that desired side effect profile might be moclobemide (the reversible MAOI), or possibly one of the less porkogenic TCA's (maprotiline?). It might be much easier to find a lowered dose of WB that still works (ybr's solution). Perhaps Stratterra? I lost weight on that one-but you might not like it-I didn't get any temper fits that are directly attributable to that one. Classical stimulants never bothered me much that way either.
Posted by ed_uk on January 1, 2005, at 17:21:31
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and Rage! » stresser, posted by Ritch on January 1, 2005, at 14:14:05
Hi Everyone!
It seems like Wellbutrin really is aggression in pill form!
Regards,
Ed.
Posted by stresser on January 1, 2005, at 20:03:35
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and Rage! » stresser, posted by Ritch on January 1, 2005, at 14:14:05
Is strattera an anti-depressant?-L
Posted by Optimist on January 2, 2005, at 6:27:54
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and Rage!, posted by ed_uk on January 1, 2005, at 17:21:31
> Hi Everyone!
>
> It seems like Wellbutrin really is aggression in pill form!
>
> Regards,
> Ed.I'm on 450mg of Wellbutrin SR a day and notice no aggression what so ever. If anything I'm less aggressive than before I'd say. due to there being less depression. I haven't noticed any irritability from it either.
Posted by ed_uk on January 2, 2005, at 11:11:47
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and Rage! » ed_uk, posted by Optimist on January 2, 2005, at 6:27:54
Hi Brian!
I didn't mean for EVERYONE :-)
Regards,
Ed.
Posted by Ritch on January 2, 2005, at 11:31:01
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and Rage! » Ritch, posted by stresser on January 1, 2005, at 20:03:35
> Is strattera an anti-depressant?-L
It's a selective norephinephrine reuptake inhibitor that's used for ADHD. I find it helps my bipolar depressions. I haven't heard much about others having a lot of success using it as an AD however.
Posted by Optimist on January 2, 2005, at 23:12:01
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and Rage! » Optimist, posted by ed_uk on January 2, 2005, at 11:11:47
> Hi Brian!
>
> I didn't mean for EVERYONE :-)
>
> Regards,
> Ed.I know... I just wanted to make sure people weren't scared away from an otherwise good drug. :)
Posted by banga on January 3, 2005, at 1:40:13
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and Rage! » ed_uk, posted by Ritch on January 1, 2005, at 10:25:28
Shows how different we all are. On trials of Wellbutrin, I did not feel agitation or violent. However, on 20 mg Lexapro, I developed very aggressive thoughts--Im not kidding even towards babies! it was really really disturbing, I am usually pretty meek interpersonally so it was SO different from what I am. It subsided when I dropped the Lexapro lower. One reason I am shying away from SSRIs in my case.
Posted by ed_uk on January 3, 2005, at 17:11:13
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and Rage! » ed_uk, posted by Optimist on January 2, 2005, at 23:12:01
>I just wanted to make sure people weren't scared away from an otherwise good drug. :)
Hi Brian!
Sorry :-)
Ed.
Posted by darkhorse on January 4, 2005, at 8:51:44
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and Rage! » ed_uk, posted by Mr.Scott on December 31, 2004, at 14:28:58
> No psychiatric drug has ever caused my so many problems of anxiety, anger, and awful despair then Wellbutrin! I tend towards those problems myself and Wellbutrin worsened all of them.
>
> ScottI can not agree more except adding Reboxetine,Milnacipran and Sibutramine to the list of pro-aggression/depression medication.
Darkhorse.
Posted by Sebastian on January 4, 2005, at 18:42:46
In reply to Re: I LOVE to talk about Wellbutrin, posted by yellowbrickroad on December 31, 2004, at 22:52:50
Posted by broken on January 7, 2005, at 15:12:56
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and Rage! » ed_uk, posted by Optimist on January 2, 2005, at 23:12:01
Just wanted to add in my experience so far. I am on 450mg Welbutrin since August/September and no aggression that I could tell. I spoke to my wife, and she said she wasn't seeing any either.
Different people, different constitutions, different side effects.
> > Hi Brian!
> >
> > I didn't mean for EVERYONE :-)
> >
> > Regards,
> > Ed.
>
> I know... I just wanted to make sure people weren't scared away from an otherwise good drug. :)
Posted by LynneDa on January 10, 2005, at 16:25:49
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and Rage! » Optimist, posted by broken on January 7, 2005, at 15:12:56
Just chiming in about Wellbutrin. I'm on 350mg SR per day. I went on it to counteract the sleepiness (and possibly weight gain) from 20mg of Lexapro. I started it alone (tapered off Lex) cuz my doctor wanted to see how I'd react. I did notice I was more out-going and actually spoke more honestly about my opinions on work-related issues. That was a good thing. I also lost 8 lbs. effortlessly (OK, maybe I wasn't craving as many carbs??). That was also a good thing.
After a month, the crying jags and depression came back so I went back on 5mg Lexapro. That seems to be a good mix, except I think I'm getting really sleepy & foggy-brained again - maybe from the Lex? I don't know what to do about that and it is affecting my work again. I used to drink one cup of coffee per day just for the taste of it, now I need 2 in the morning and a caffeinated soda in the afternoon! Not good.
Any opinions on sleep-inducing SSRIs and possible remedies would be appreciated! Thanks for reading this looooonnngg post to anyone who made it through! :-)
~ Lynne
****************************************Just wanted to add in my experience so far. I am on 450mg Welbutrin since August/September and no aggression that I could tell. I spoke to my wife, and she said she wasn't seeing any either.
>
> Different people, different constitutions, different side effects.
>
>
>
>
>
> > > Hi Brian!
> > >
> > > I didn't mean for EVERYONE :-)
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Ed.
> >
> > I know... I just wanted to make sure people weren't scared away from an otherwise good drug. :)
>
>
Posted by yellowbrickroad on January 10, 2005, at 20:20:14
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and Rage!, posted by LynneDa on January 10, 2005, at 16:25:49
Hey,
My only contribution is that Wellbutrin is NOT an SSRI.
Well, and...I highly doubt that the Wellbutrin has anything to do with your sleepiness, but...I'm not an expert.
What does your doctor say?
YBR
Posted by LynneDa on January 11, 2005, at 8:51:59
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and Rage! » LynneDa, posted by yellowbrickroad on January 10, 2005, at 20:20:14
Hi! I meant the Lexapro when I said SSRI. It's the Lex that makes me sleepy so my p-doc put me on the Wellbutrin because it is more activating and he thought it would counteract the sleepiness the Lex brought on. It certainly did at first. I've been on this WB & Lex combo since Sept. I guess I've given it enough time to see what it can do. Emotionally I'm not the rollercoaster I was & I think the WB helped with that, but I can't kick the fog! I guess I do need to call my doc to discuss. Thanks for your reply!!
~ Lynne
**********************************Hey,
>
> My only contribution is that Wellbutrin is NOT an SSRI.
>
> Well, and...I highly doubt that the Wellbutrin has anything to do with your sleepiness, but...I'm not an expert.
>
> What does your doctor say?
>
> YBR
Posted by stresser on January 11, 2005, at 21:10:30
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and Rage!, posted by LynneDa on January 11, 2005, at 8:51:59
I'm really happy to hear the wellbutrin is working well for you. Medications work differently for everyone, you are quite lucky this one is for you.-L
Posted by David Koppman on June 19, 2005, at 12:15:13
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and Rage!, posted by stresser on January 11, 2005, at 21:10:30
WooHoo. I love the part on the Rx Info Sheet that says "Wellbutrin MAY cause people who cause mania in people who have a tendency to be manic. First three days I took it, I called my Doc & told them they need to change that to "Most Definitely Will." I had to move my 1200mg of lithium from all@night to all@wake-up. I tried moving only 1/2 of it (2x300mg) to the morning, and had no luck in keeping me from be-bopping all over til odd hours of the next day.Even with the lithium in the mornings, after about a year and a half, it appears I'd not re-uptake'd enough dopamine to the point where I was manic daily.
[dopamine = cocaine, meth, crack & fooling the brain's reward system.] This is just a slow build-up rather than one massive dump. I can totally see the paranoia, the anxiety, the mania, the rage. It just takes a bit longer than if you were doing cocaine every day...
I'd say "rage" can border on the psychotic, as I had the realization that Dexedrine had caused my bi-polar disorder to be PERMANENT Schizo-affective disorder [as meth-induced psychosis mirrors schizophrenia, and if it quacks like a psychotic..]
Considering I was 11-15 when I was given those lovely dexies <cough> I became a tad upset. To the point I was ready to go across the street to the local shopping center and empty a few clips into some innocents to make me feel better. (and make it where I don't have to deal with the fact that something I'd thought was genetic, and has affected my whole life, and not for the better, was just brain damage caused by the pharmaceutical company.)[texas is a death penalty state and I was intending to waive my appeals..]
But, YAY! Now I can have kids without a 50-50 of them being completely screwed.
Still, I became quite upset after talking to a few attorneys about the fact that I have a slim window for a products lawsuit since I could not be reasonably expected to know dexedrine could cause harm when I was 11. Considering that's my whole life we're talking about here, fairly screwed off as I'm on total disability now.. I wanted to vent, and not in a good way.
I may be screwed up, but never desired to go on a random killing spree. Naturally, I went and talked it out with a friend and got myself calmed down, by venting on the cause of the initial anger (Dex & resulting damage), but I'm sure glad I don't already own a handgun.
I also question, if one of the reasons I like Wellbutrin as an anti-depressant is less for it's anti-depressant qualities as much as it gives me more dopamine, which dexedrine trained my brain to crave, even if the cravings were for amphetamine in order to GET the dopamine.
Mixing amphetamines and Wellbutrin is NOT recommended, simply because while I'm not going to test the theory, I think releasing massive amounts of dopamine into your brain, that the wellbutrin will block from re-uptake is a good way to have a stroke or a heart attack or some other nasty. (ie. don't mix it with cocaine or any of the other dopamine related stimulants either, adderall would probably be a VERY bad mix.)
Lithium "will" help in supressing the manic tendencies, but after a period of time, will become rather innefectual, and mania (and @ the high-end manic-psychosis ie. rage?) will be more and more likely as the brain builds up a level.
I also find my klonopins both helpful and dangerous at the same time. They tend to assist the lithium in the mood stabilization, as well as take care of this anxiety disorder I seem to have picked up along the way. However, that "I don't care" effect of the benzos, surely was helping me along the path to letting the high-end manic go full-blown and me being news.
I'd advise anyone on Wellbutrin to monitor their moods closely, and if you find yourself getting more and more, bouncy, bee-boppy, manic, call your doc.
I'm thinking since I'm only on 150mg, that I may see about taking it every other day. I didn't bother to call him about my desire to harm others that morning, as I can't afford to spend 30 days in the hospital at the moment, I'm moving state-state in 43 days & it wasn't pressing-danger, just a desire to cause mayhem.
Still, that's spooky, wouldn't you say? I HAD stopped taking it, but only for about 3 weeks. Then I went ahead and decided, SURELY, my dopamine levels can't be that high.. Well, 3 weeks worth of taking it again, made me more manic than ever before, although, admittedly, discovering your entire life has been re-directed due to stimulants given to you as a child would reasonably upset anyone, especially someone who's been getting $6500/yr to live off for the past 10 years. (GO SOCIAL SECURITY -- THANKS SOOOO MUCH.)
(Rent on my one-bedroom is $505 & I get $593.. Dallas. Hence the move, I MIGHT be able to afford middle of nowhere North Alabama. We'll just have to see.)
As for my credentials in writing this, I'm a bit more sane than your average crazy.. (chuckle) All of you crazy's who took offense at that, tuff. I spent 15-18 in in-patient psychiatric from the psychosis caused by the dexedrine, and then the past 16 years since in and out of institutions & outpatient. Only about, um, 6 hospitalizations, but about 1200+ hours of therapy time. So.. I have a grip on this. Love to all, be good.
- Dave [your resident nutjob playing psychologist]
Posted by TerraJo on June 19, 2005, at 22:56:01
In reply to Wellbutrin and Rage! lithium dexedrine (meth), posted by David Koppman on June 19, 2005, at 12:15:13
i dealt with wellbutrin rage for 4-6 weeks while just trying to get on it. it was terrible. i had ativan at the time. but it was by far the hardest med to get on i have ever tried. it was worth it, but the rage was just awful.
This is the end of the thread.
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