![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by shellypup on May 14, 2005, at 23:50:02
I have been reading all of your posts with great interest since I have been taking Ambien for chronic insomnia and am now trying Lunestra for the second night, since it was recommended to me. One thing I have noticed is that I have a little different experience with generiic Ambien (zolipidem) than name brand Ambien. Has anyone else found that? One thing I found very interesting is that I had a long talk with the pharmacist about Ambien and Lunestra (I've been going to the same neighborhood pharmacy for a long time). I asked her about Lunestra being designed for long term insomnia and Ambien being designed as a short term treatment for insomnia. She told me that the difference is actually based on the way the companies get FDA approval. She gave me a long complicated answer, but the gist of it was that the company that manufactures Ambien only sought approval as a short term treatment drug, but Lunestra sought approval for being used as a long term sleep aid. Has anyone else heard this? Also, I have heard of Ambien addiction, but how would you know if you are addicted to Ambien? I mean if you had insomnia before you start taking it and then insomnia came back after you stopped taking it, how can that be addiction? I'm just confused on that. By the way, sorry for all the questions, but I don't know anyone else who sufferes from chronic insomnia(by the way, mine is from hypothyroidism and hypoadrenalism). Thanks in advance for any answers and/or help!
Posted by 4WD on May 15, 2005, at 16:47:06
In reply to Ambien and Lunestra, posted by shellypup on May 14, 2005, at 23:50:02
> I have been reading all of your posts with great interest since I have been taking Ambien for chronic insomnia and am now trying Lunestra for the second night, since it was recommended to me. One thing I have noticed is that I have a little different experience with generiic Ambien (zolipidem) than name brand Ambien. Has anyone else found that? One thing I found very interesting is that I had a long talk with the pharmacist about Ambien and Lunestra (I've been going to the same neighborhood pharmacy for a long time). I asked her about Lunestra being designed for long term insomnia and Ambien being designed as a short term treatment for insomnia. She told me that the difference is actually based on the way the companies get FDA approval. She gave me a long complicated answer, but the gist of it was that the company that manufactures Ambien only sought approval as a short term treatment drug, but Lunestra sought approval for being used as a long term sleep aid. Has anyone else heard this? Also, I have heard of Ambien addiction, but how would you know if you are addicted to Ambien? I mean if you had insomnia before you start taking it and then insomnia came back after you stopped taking it, how can that be addiction? I'm just confused on that. By the way, sorry for all the questions, but I don't know anyone else who sufferes from chronic insomnia(by the way, mine is from hypothyroidism and hypoadrenalism). Thanks in advance for any answers and/or help!
Hi Shellypup,I think the issue with ambien addiction is that when you stop it after long term use, the insomnia becomes even worse than it was before you started taking it. That gradually eases as you withdraw but you'd be in for some really long nights for a while. You might also find yourself anxious for a while after stopping it.
Marsha
Posted by Phillipa on May 15, 2005, at 21:51:14
In reply to Re: Ambien and Lunestra, posted by 4WD on May 15, 2005, at 16:47:06
Nothing helps my insomnia I'm conviced now. Last night in desperation I took 10mg of ambien that I had with the l0mg valium I always take for sleep. Would you believe it didn't help at all? If my husband takes it he is like a drunk the next morning. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Toni on May 31, 2005, at 12:56:37
In reply to Ambien and Lunestra, posted by shellypup on May 14, 2005, at 23:50:02
I have been taking Ambien for about a year.
I am told that it is safe to take every night,
but still it doesn't feel like a good solution and now mspeppa is abed at 10 up at 2 and 4 for an
additional nibble of the stuff (careful not to
exceed the 10mg dose, of course). Is it any wonder then
that the Lunesta butterfly looks like a friend?
Tell me, is the stuff any good?
Posted by volleygym on July 18, 2005, at 14:29:40
In reply to Re: Ambien and Lunestra, posted by Toni on May 31, 2005, at 12:56:37
> I have been taking Ambien for about a year.
> I am told that it is safe to take every night,
> but still it doesn't feel like a good solution and now mspeppa is abed at 10 up at 2 and 4 for an
> additional nibble of the stuff (careful not to
> exceed the 10mg dose, of course). Is it any wonder then
> that the Lunesta butterfly looks like a friend?
> Tell me, is the stuff any good?
Hello, I have been taking Ambien for years. Just recently my doc switched me to Lunestra. In answer to your question of Lunesta being safe. . . from my experience, yes, safe. However, the norm dose is 1, 2 or 3 mg. It takes a min of 4 to work at all. Also, and this is BIG, the horrible taste it leaves does not go away for days. Due to that, I got severe food poisoning, coz I couldn't taste the food had gone bad coz of the horrible aftertast of the Lunestra. In my opinion, if Ambien is working for you, stay with it. Hope that helped.
Posted by Fugly on August 6, 2005, at 14:32:06
In reply to Re: Ambien and Lunestra, posted by 4WD on May 15, 2005, at 16:47:06
Ambien addiction withdrals? I had been taking Ambien for two years prior to "cold turky-ing" it a few months ago; and just got a prescription for Lunestra. Ambien was (operative term "was") allowing me to sleep for more than the typical 3 hours I had been getting on a GOOD night before ever taking it. Anyways.....about the addiction thing. I suppose I became dependent on making the dosing part of my night time routine, and I did notice a tolerance to the dose I was taking (10mg) develop after the first year. Eventually, I was back to sleeping less than 4 hours (still an improvement mind you) when I did quit taking it on my own. My prescription had run out, and one for Lunestra was on order...but not in supply until 3 months later. The withdrawal was not nice. I was "buggy", jumpy, on edgde, could not sleep more than what seemed a few minutes for like almost 2 weeks, a constant headache at migraine level, and on an emotional roller coaster. More than just a little anxious. Most unpleasant, as those around me would tell you. After about 2 weeks, I as back to "normal" napping for about 3-4 hours on "good" nights, (STILL an improvement!), Since being off Ambien for about 3 months, I finally got my Lunestra in, and have taken it for about a week. I take the 2mgs, and it worked on the third day...umm, night without my feeling weirded any. On that night I do not actually remember going to bed (did not set alarm, grrrr!), but I'm pretty sure I slept 7 hours as I do remember the time I took the pill. And yes, I have noticed the taste problem. I thought it was the ice machine in the cafeteria where I work, but noooo...bottled water, watermelon, food in general is icky, which really does not help matters in one way, and in another...it does cuz I want to lose weight, hah hah hah. Maybe it will get better if I took it every night and my tastebuds adjusted,but I am worried about getting psychologically or emotionally dependent on something AGAIN. Ambien was good for me, and helped me get my head back on fairly (for me) straight. There were problems of my own making when I was taking it, and of the nature of the beast when I quit. Overall, nothing in comparison to chronic insomnia for whatever reasons. I'm hoping I won't have the memory, or behavioural issues I had on Ambien with Lunestra (here's a factoid: Ambien has certain "aphrodiciac" qualities...but hey, maybe that was just me). Lunestra has been marketed to be OK with long term...and if it has simular problems. Your pharmacist is right about the approval thing. The withdrawal seemed pretty harsh at the time, did not last that long, and I think it was worthwhile for me. I do worry about repeating the same cycle with Lunestra though, and the next magic bullet after that, and so on. I switched because I was worried about things I was doing that may or may not have anything to do with the Ambien, the percieved loss of effectiveness with the product, and all the noise I hear about how bad the stuff is for me. My insomnia did rebound for a bit after stopping Ambien, leveled out, and I'm back where I was before, albiet a little wiser for the experience; and with a different med.
Posted by ed_uk on August 6, 2005, at 15:45:26
In reply to Re: Ambien and Lunestra, posted by Fugly on August 6, 2005, at 14:32:06
See the posts about Rozerem.
~ed
Posted by utopizen on August 7, 2005, at 8:37:54
In reply to Re: Ambien and Lunestra, posted by Fugly on August 6, 2005, at 14:32:06
There is no such thing as "insomnia rebound."
You wouldn't take Ambien unless you had insomnia to begin with.
Ambien is suppose to be part of a comprehensive, temporary treatment approach to help you adjust as you encompass more comrpehensive treatments like behaviorial therapy, relaxation techniques, self-hypnosis on your iPod, Eastern breathing and meditation instruction, and so on.
Of course, if you think insomnia is intrinsic to your mental pathology, you're basically hypnotizing yourself into not sleeping without a drug.
If you think I don't know how horrid it feels to have insomnia for over a year's time, I would think that over again. I had a psychiatrist a switched to that wouldn't give in to my demands for Ambien, which forced me to actually experiment with Yoga, excercise daily on my bike for 2 hours a day, and learn to stop obsessing over my meds and sleep schedule like I was conducting my own clinical research trial.
You should try it sometime. Most people who can't sleep tend to lay in bed staring at the wall for over 30 minutes instead of getting out of bed before the 30 minute mark hits. Otherwise, you enter a non-sleeping trance all night long.
Take a sedating SNRI like Remeron, or some Seroquel, or something else.
Posted by volleygym on August 7, 2005, at 10:18:16
In reply to Re: Ambien and Lunestra, posted by utopizen on August 7, 2005, at 8:37:54
> There is no such thing as "insomnia rebound."
>
> You wouldn't take Ambien unless you had insomnia to begin with.
>
> Ambien is suppose to be part of a comprehensive, temporary treatment approach to help you adjust as you encompass more comrpehensive treatments like behaviorial therapy, relaxation techniques, self-hypnosis on your iPod, Eastern breathing and meditation instruction, and so on.
>
> Of course, if you think insomnia is intrinsic to your mental pathology, you're basically hypnotizing yourself into not sleeping without a drug.
>
> If you think I don't know how horrid it feels to have insomnia for over a year's time, I would think that over again. I had a psychiatrist a switched to that wouldn't give in to my demands for Ambien, which forced me to actually experiment with Yoga, excercise daily on my bike for 2 hours a day, and learn to stop obsessing over my meds and sleep schedule like I was conducting my own clinical research trial.
>
> You should try it sometime. Most people who can't sleep tend to lay in bed staring at the wall for over 30 minutes instead of getting out of bed before the 30 minute mark hits. Otherwise, you enter a non-sleeping trance all night long.
>
> Take a sedating SNRI like Remeron, or some Seroquel, or something else.
>
>
>
>
Remeron, Seroquel or any other class of anti-psychotic drugs is fine if your insomnia is related to that. In some cases, insomnia is just insomnia. And in those cases, yoga, behaviorial therapy, relaxation techniques, self-hypnosis on your iPod, Eastern breathing and meditation instruction, and so on; do not work. You name the techniques, treatments, old-wives tales, etc. they do not work.You are correct about getting out of bed and doing something before the 30-minute mark; however, when this goes on for weeks at a time with no sleep (not even 10 minutes) and you have tried all the treatments in the work; have seen all the docs and sleep specialists...it's just insomnia. Unfortunately, for some of us, it runs in the family.
Posted by toni on August 7, 2005, at 11:11:18
In reply to Re: Ambien and Lunestra » utopizen, posted by volleygym on August 7, 2005, at 10:18:16
"Rational" thinking tells me I should not take Ambien every night to sleep. Indeed, I should
jump out of bed when it becomes apparent that
sleep once again eludes me and continue to do
this after every little nap I struggle to attain. Without medication, I am basically up for two days (fighting to stay awake so can sleep on night two). I get lots of exercise and do everything I know to relax, but I remain hyper. At the end of the day I am physically tired and weary of life. I don't want another struggle. I want sleep, plain and simple.
My physician assures me that it's okay to take
10mg of Ambien nightly. He says it is unhealthy
to go without sleep. I believe this, but in my
heart I believe I should bite the bullet and
do without the medication. Why I beat myself
up for this, I don't know. How is my problem
different from other chronic problems like
diabetes, high blood pressure, major depression, etc? My insomnia is chronic, physically detrimental and mentally agonizing. There is
a drug which alleviates the problem.
For right now why not just let myself off the
hook?
Posted by volleygym on August 7, 2005, at 11:31:21
In reply to Re: Ambien and Lunestra, posted by toni on August 7, 2005, at 11:11:18
> "Rational" thinking tells me I should not take Ambien every night to sleep. Indeed, I should
> jump out of bed when it becomes apparent that
> sleep once again eludes me and continue to do
> this after every little nap I struggle to attain. Without medication, I am basically up for two days (fighting to stay awake so can sleep on night two). I get lots of exercise and do everything I know to relax, but I remain hyper. At the end of the day I am physically tired and weary of life. I don't want another struggle. I want sleep, plain and simple.
> My physician assures me that it's okay to take
> 10mg of Ambien nightly. He says it is unhealthy
> to go without sleep. I believe this, but in my
> heart I believe I should bite the bullet and
> do without the medication. Why I beat myself
> up for this, I don't know. How is my problem
> different from other chronic problems like
> diabetes, high blood pressure, major depression, etc? My insomnia is chronic, physically detrimental and mentally agonizing. There is
> a drug which alleviates the problem.
> For right now why not just let myself off the
> hook?
>
Exactly! I totally agree. My insomia is also chronic. I've been an insomniac all my life. I've bitten the "bullet" and have tried everything under the sun, all to no avail. There is a drug that helps and works and I sleep. So forget "rational" thinking and let yourself off the hook.
Posted by Declan on August 11, 2005, at 20:40:14
In reply to Re: Ambien and Lunestra » toni, posted by volleygym on August 7, 2005, at 11:31:21
That's right Tony,I wouldn't worry too much about Ambien 10mg, but if you do you can always take half a tablet. Which is what I do.
Declan
Posted by davexxxx on October 13, 2005, at 3:36:32
In reply to Ambien and Lunestra, posted by shellypup on May 14, 2005, at 23:50:02
I have been taking Ambien for about 15 years. 10 mg does the job. If I drink a lot of alcohol, then 10 mg is marginal, so I take 15 mg. In the earlier years, I broke them in half and only took 5 mg. The amount needed may increase slightly over the years. Lunestra(sp?) is much more expensive even though Ambien is expensive. I have to pay it all. Anyway, Ambien still works well over all these years, despite the "short term" claims. One thing on Ambien I learned is that your sleep time starts 20 minutes after you take it. It will keep you asleep for 8 hours and then wake you up, not groggy! If you take it and stay up for 4 hours, then you will only get 4 hours of sleep! Good luck, sir! Dave
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.