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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by paulbwell on April 13, 2005, at 22:11:25
In reply to Re: Side effects of zopiclone » ed_uk, posted by Phillipa on April 13, 2005, at 21:25:51
You are very lucky to benefit so much from this older, mostly benign med, how long have you been taking it?
I know you take 15mgs T.I.D, no increases thou correct?
Do you take it as needed or on a timed schedule reguardlesss of your circumstances
One of the reasons I have so much, is because I'm prescribed it to replace Klonopin, and seem to take less, than is so complicatedly daily prescribedCheers
Posted by Phillipa on April 13, 2005, at 22:28:18
In reply to Re: Side effects of zopiclone » Phillipa, posted by paulbwell on April 13, 2005, at 22:11:25
No I take a total of l5mg a day. 5mg in the am and l0mg at bedtime. I took it the first time over 30years ago. I believe the dose was 5mg TID. I also took meprobamate 450mg with it. I gave up the mepro one day with no side effects. I gradually cut down the valium to 5mg once a day or every other day. Then I was going through a divorce, raising 3kids and running an aerobic dance program, and going to nursing school. I guess somewhere in there I started to see a pdoc again and I think I was on low doses of ativan for a while. Then after working a few years and moving to VA Beach, I had a rough time and took valium again for a awhile. Then when a relative stole a new Rx of it I asked for xanax not knowing it was considered a "street or party" drug. I took this for years also at low doses. Then when my thyroid became hypo, I required more xanax and my first AD. Finally now I am again on valium. It doesn't provide me with that AAAhhh feeling it used to but I don't seem to need any more than this. Oh I was on l.5-2mg klonopin when I started the valium and didn't ever like the klonopin. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by paulbwell on April 14, 2005, at 0:32:44
In reply to Re: Side effects of zopiclone » paulbwell, posted by Phillipa on April 13, 2005, at 22:28:18
>it was considered a "street or party" drug.
so is Valium- thou how is beyond me
no ahhh here either
Posted by Phillipa on April 14, 2005, at 0:41:25
In reply to Re: Side effects of zopiclone » Phillipa, posted by paulbwell on April 14, 2005, at 0:32:44
I've never figured out how any of he benzos affect people that way. I once met a girl in a detox unit.[I worked in psych] who took 6mg of xanax, and drank a fifth of liquor with it and it did nothing for her anxiety any more. It was really sad. She had such a hard time with detox. She was given enormous amts of valium to detox and was always shaking and in tears. She in no way used the drug for partying, just trying to relieve her anxiety. I often wonder what happened to her. She is always a reminder to me not to take any more than you are rx'd. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by paulbwell on April 14, 2005, at 0:49:09
In reply to Re: Side effects of zopiclone » paulbwell, posted by Phillipa on April 14, 2005, at 0:41:25
> I've never figured out how any of he benzos affect people that way. I once met a girl in a detox unit.[I worked in psych] who took 6mg of xanax, and drank a fifth of liquor with it and it did nothing for her anxiety any more. It was really sad. She had such a hard time with detox. She was given enormous amts of valium to detox and was always shaking and in tears. She in no way used the drug for partying, just trying to relieve her anxiety. I often wonder what happened to her. She is always a reminder to me not to take any more than you are rx'd. Fondly, Phillipa
Its
hope
hope
hope
the next pill
the next drink,
will do 'it' something for the pain, the bordem, the anxiety,"tell me it'l be allright"--Ozzy in (Perry Mason)
Posted by Maxime on April 14, 2005, at 12:35:50
In reply to Symptoms on Lunesta withdrawal?, posted by ed_uk on April 13, 2005, at 18:03:30
That is really interesting! I have taken immovane before. I took it in the 90's. It's available in Canada but not in the US. I would wake up with awful taste in my mouth.
It actually caused "rebound" insomnia for me. I would plan to take it for 3 nights (to try and get into a sleep pattern). The first night I would sleep. The second night it would take much longer and the third night I wouldn't sleep at at. They gave it to me in the hospital as well and I told them not to ... but they didn't listen. I didn't know I could say "no". I would be up all night and they would do their 30 minute checks and I would wave to the nurse every time she flashed the flashlight in my face. What the f*ck do they do that?
Now I am not so excited about Lunesta anymore. Yay, more balloons to let go!
Thanks for the info Ed.
xxxx
Maxi> Americans should not be surprised if they suffer worse withdrawal symptoms from Lunesta than from Ambien!!!!
>
> Eszopiclone (Lunesta) is the active component of the older sleeping drug zopiclone (Imovane, Zimovane). Zopiclone has been widely prescribed in the UK since the 1980s.
>
> Zopiclone (Imovane etc) may cause greater 'rebound symptoms' than zolpidem (Ambien)............
>
> J Int Med Res. 2001 May-Jun;29(3):163-77.
>
> A double-blind comparative study of zolpidem versus zopiclone in the treatment of chronic primary insomnia.
>
> Tsutsui S; Zolipidem Study Group.
>
> Department of Psychosomatic Medicine, Toho University Medical School, Omori Hospital, Japan.
>
> Zolpidem (10 mg/day) and zopiclone (7.5 mg/day), administered at night, were compared in a 14-day, double-blind, equivalence trial on 479 chronic primary insomniacs (zolpidem, 231; zopiclone, 248) throughout Japan, with a 1-week follow-up to assess rebound. The primary endpoint was the investigators' rating of global improvement of sleep disorders. A total of 32 patients in the zolpidem group (13.9%) and 45 patients in the zopiclone group (18.1%) withdrew from the study before the end of the treatment. In the zolpidem group, 67.9% (142/209) of patients were rated at least 'moderately improved' versus 61.6% (135/219) with zopiclone, zolpidem being at least as effective as zopiclone (90% confidence interval: -1.7, 14.3). With zolpidem, sleep onset latency improved in significantly more patients (85.8% versus 77.5%) and significantly fewer patients showed aggravated sleep onset latency relative to baseline at follow-up (4.5% versus 15.4%). Significantly fewer patients receiving zolpidem experienced drug-related adverse events (31.3% versus 45.3%), with bitter taste representing 5.8% (six of 104) of such complaints with zolpidem compared with 39.9% (69/173) with zopiclone. In conclusion, zolpidem was at least as effective as zopiclone, ****showed significantly less rebound on discontinuation**** and was better tolerated.
>
> It is hypothesised that zolpidem (Ambien) may be less likely to cause physical dependence (tolerance and withdrawal symptoms) than the benzodiazepines because it is more selective for the omega-1 receptor. Zopiclone is less selective for the omega-1 receptor than zolpidem (Ambien) and so it might be expected to be associated with a higher incidence of physical dependence. Eszopiclone (Lunesta) appears to be almost virtually identical to zopiclone, I cannot imagine that it has any true clinical advantages over zopiclone.
>
> Ed.
Posted by ed_uk on April 14, 2005, at 12:41:27
In reply to Re: Symptoms on Lunesta withdrawal?, posted by Maxime on April 14, 2005, at 12:35:50
Hi Maxi!
>Now I am not so excited about Lunesta anymore.
You could get excited about a different treatment instead :-) Pramipexole, aripiprazole, tianeptine, isocarboxazid, moclobemide, T3 etc
Love Ed xxxx
PS. I know someone who had nightmares after he stopped taking zopiclone- he had only been on it for three days (nights)!
Posted by MidnightBlue on April 14, 2005, at 15:49:13
In reply to Re: Symptoms on Lunesta withdrawal? » Maxime, posted by ed_uk on April 14, 2005, at 12:41:27
I'm sticking to Ambien thank you! I do get used to it. I have been on it for about 10 years, but try to only take it a couple of times a week. As long as I don't take if every night it seems to work.
Posted by Maxime on April 14, 2005, at 20:51:25
In reply to Re: Symptoms on Lunesta withdrawal? » ed_uk, posted by MidnightBlue on April 14, 2005, at 15:49:13
> I'm sticking to Ambien thank you! I do get used to it. I have been on it for about 10 years, but try to only take it a couple of times a week. As long as I don't take if every night it seems to work.
That is the way it is suppose to be used. Some people take it every night. It's suppose to help you get back into a regular sleep pattern ... break the insomnia.
Maxime
Posted by yxibow on April 14, 2005, at 23:19:31
In reply to Re: Symptoms on Lunesta withdrawal? » MidnightBlue, posted by Maxime on April 14, 2005, at 20:51:25
Well I entered the brave new world of Lunesta last week; its a more subtle drug than Ambien. As for the taste, I can concur... I know when it is starting to hit me when I have a slight metallic taste in the mouth. Doesn't really bother me too much and doesnt last post-sleep. I'm not sure how long I'll continue this trial.
I had been taking Ambien 20mg for at least a year. It in combination with the Seroquel I also take tended to cause disconcerting orthostatic hypotension (low blood pressure) when the drug(s) started to hit -- i.e., standing up wasn't the most pleasant if I didnt hit the hay in time.
Sepracor is rolling out a major TV campaign to counter Ambien's commercials. I think it can be a good sleep aid for people who havent been as dependent or exposed to as many benzo-related drugs, as I say the onset is subtle. But it does keep me asleep, for now anyway, so as an insomniac thats what counts.
Posted by ed_uk on April 15, 2005, at 10:06:41
In reply to Re: Symptoms on Lunesta withdrawal?, posted by yxibow on April 14, 2005, at 23:19:31
>Sepracor is rolling out a major TV campaign to counter Ambien's commercials.
I must admit that I find it very amusing that prescription psychiatric drugs are advertised on TV in some countries! There is something rather distastful about it!
Also, pdocs giving patients samples of drugs from drugs reps???? Hilarious! I can't imagine it ever happening here. It makes me think of that episode of Ally McBeal where the pdoc opens the draw full of drugs and tries to give her some Xanax :-D
Ed.
Posted by banga on April 15, 2005, at 10:16:55
In reply to Funny things happen in the USA!, posted by ed_uk on April 15, 2005, at 10:06:41
Have you ever seen the commercials? I imagine not....the best part is while they show pretty people having the time of their life (and you are supposed to think WOW if I take drug x I can feel and look that good?!?), a pleasant woman's voice quietly reads off a whole list of caveats and horrid potential side effects. But they have done a great job of having those seem like meaningless background noise. After all, THOSE pretty people obviously have no side effects, and aren't worried, why should then *I* worry about it? You should see the commercials for Viagra.....
I swear my pdoc sees as many drug reps a day as he does patients. When we have gone to a new medication, he is very apologetic that he has no free samples to give me!!
Posted by ed_uk on April 15, 2005, at 10:41:15
In reply to Re: Funny things happen in the USA! » ed_uk, posted by banga on April 15, 2005, at 10:16:55
Hi!
>Have you ever seen the commercials? I imagine not....
I've seen commercials for Paxil and Viagra. IMHO, the advert for Paxil was not in good taste!
Ed xxx
Posted by KaraS on April 15, 2005, at 14:50:16
In reply to Funny things happen in the USA!, posted by ed_uk on April 15, 2005, at 10:06:41
The commercials are definitely very tacky. No question about it. Business rules in the U.S. so I doubt that they'll go away anytime soon.
The samples, OTOH, are a good idea. Meds are SO EXPENSIVE here and not everyone has insurance. It would be criminal to have to pay for a month's supply of medication that you're not able to tolerate.
K
Posted by Maxime on April 15, 2005, at 15:09:01
In reply to Funny things happen in the USA!, posted by ed_uk on April 15, 2005, at 10:06:41
In Canada you are not allowed to have TV advertisements for drugs where you mention the name. But they have a really cute one for Viagra to the song "Good Morning" from Singing in the rain. The man is so happy as he goes to work. He jumps over hydrants and as gets to work and gets on the elevator the doors of the elevator close and it says "Viagra". But that's all. It's the only med that you can get away with doing such an ad for.
I have a warped mind and I have story-boards in my head for anti-depressant meds! LOL!> >Sepracor is rolling out a major TV campaign to counter Ambien's commercials.
>
> I must admit that I find it very amusing that prescription psychiatric drugs are advertised on TV in some countries! There is something rather distastful about it!
>
> Also, pdocs giving patients samples of drugs from drugs reps???? Hilarious! I can't imagine it ever happening here. It makes me think of that episode of Ally McBeal where the pdoc opens the draw full of drugs and tries to give her some Xanax :-D
>
> Ed.
Posted by Maxime on April 15, 2005, at 15:12:05
In reply to Re: Funny things happen in the USA! » ed_uk, posted by banga on April 15, 2005, at 10:16:55
Oh my god, I love the list of side effects. It's too funny. "Side effects are mild. Some people get an upper respiratory infection, or thrush ...." And it said in such a sing-song voice.
Or the booming voice for "NEXIUM"!
Maxime> Have you ever seen the commercials? I imagine not....the best part is while they show pretty people having the time of their life (and you are supposed to think WOW if I take drug x I can feel and look that good?!?), a pleasant woman's voice quietly reads off a whole list of caveats and horrid potential side effects. But they have done a great job of having those seem like meaningless background noise. After all, THOSE pretty people obviously have no side effects, and aren't worried, why should then *I* worry about it? You should see the commercials for Viagra.....
>
> I swear my pdoc sees as many drug reps a day as he does patients. When we have gone to a new medication, he is very apologetic that he has no free samples to give me!!
Posted by banga on April 15, 2005, at 15:18:40
In reply to Re: Funny things happen in the USA! » banga, posted by Maxime on April 15, 2005, at 15:12:05
> Oh my god, I love the list of side effects. It's too funny. "Side effects are mild. Some people get an upper respiratory infection, or thrush ...." And it said in such a sing-song voice.
it's even better when she says "a small amount of people get a serious rash and headaches......If you feel faint and have chest pains, call your doctor immediately...."HOw can she say things like that and make it sound almost *good*??
I would like to meet this woman and have a bit of a conversation...
Posted by Paulbwell on April 16, 2005, at 1:18:40
In reply to Re: Funny things happen in the USA!, posted by banga on April 15, 2005, at 15:18:40
> > Oh my god, I love the list of side effects. It's too funny. "Side effects are mild. Some people get an upper respiratory infection, or thrush ...." And it said in such a sing-song voice.
> it's even better when she says "a small amount of people get a serious rash and headaches......If you feel faint and have chest pains, call your doctor immediately...."
>
> HOw can she say things like that and make it sound almost *good*??
>
> I would like to meet this woman and have a bit of a conversation...She'll want her check first!
Drug xyz-showing happy rich people playing, then lovely lady, or micro words of SE's
drug xyz may cause lalalalalal-sore joints
-URI's
-tiredness
-Blurred vision
-Depression
-SUDDEN DEATHBut these won't happen to you right?
Posted by ed_uk on April 16, 2005, at 14:40:02
In reply to Re: Funny things happen in the USA!, posted by KaraS on April 15, 2005, at 14:50:16
Hi K!
>It would be criminal to have to pay for a month's supply of medication that you're not able to tolerate.
You could get two prescriptions, one for a few tablets and one for the rest of the months supply!
Ed xx
Posted by ed_uk on April 16, 2005, at 14:40:48
In reply to Re: Funny things happen in the USA! » ed_uk, posted by Maxime on April 15, 2005, at 15:09:01
Hi Maxi!
>I have a warped mind and I have story-boards in my head for anti-depressant meds!
Do tell.........
Ed xxx
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 16, 2005, at 14:56:44
In reply to Funny things happen in the USA!, posted by ed_uk on April 15, 2005, at 10:06:41
> Also, pdocs giving patients samples of drugs from drugs reps???? Hilarious! I can't imagine it ever happening here. It makes me think of that episode of Ally McBeal where the pdoc opens the draw full of drugs and tries to give her some Xanax :-D
>
> Ed.Sometimes it totally relieves the patient of a drug expense, though. I'm sure the companies write it off as a promotional expense, but I've had more than one occasion where it is the only way I would ever get the drugs I need.
I get an anti-IBS med, a highly-specific calcium channel blocker, totally through these sample packs. My doctor gets dozens of sample packs from the rep, just for me, and just hands them over.
Lar
Posted by MidnightBlue on April 16, 2005, at 15:55:11
In reply to Re: Funny things happen in the USA! » ed_uk, posted by Larry Hoover on April 16, 2005, at 14:56:44
Today I got enough Rhinocort to last a couple of months. A HUGE help! And I am usually much more willing to try a new med if I know I can try a sample rather than paying a $45 co-pay for something I might take twice. Buying a "few" pills instead of a month's worth can cost up to $4 or more a pill depending on what it is.
Posted by ed_uk on April 16, 2005, at 16:35:59
In reply to Re: Funny things happen in the USA! » ed_uk, posted by Larry Hoover on April 16, 2005, at 14:56:44
Hi,
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend. I just don't like to think of doctors' prescribing habits being so powerfully influenced by the pharmacetical companies.
Which drug(s) do you take for IBS?
Kind regards,
Ed.
Posted by ed_uk on April 16, 2005, at 16:37:10
In reply to Re: Funny things happen in the USA!, posted by MidnightBlue on April 16, 2005, at 15:55:11
Hi,
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend. I just don't like to think of doctors' prescribing habits being so powerfully influenced by the pharmacetical companies.
Kind regards,
Ed.
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 16, 2005, at 17:53:32
In reply to Re: Funny things happen in the USA! » Larry Hoover, posted by ed_uk on April 16, 2005, at 16:35:59
> Hi,
>
> I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend. I just don't like to think of doctors' prescribing habits being so powerfully influenced by the pharmacetical companies.No offense taken. Ya, it's all about influence, these drug reps.
> Which drug(s) do you take for IBS?
>
> Kind regards,
> Ed.Dicetel (pinaverium bromide).
Lar
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