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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by FredPotter on April 3, 2005, at 23:54:18
In reply to Re: ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS » paulbwell, posted by Phillipa on April 3, 2005, at 22:28:23
Hey Phillipa same here except it's coming up to 41 years! Nyaaah! First Librium, then Valium, Ativan, Oxazepam and finally Xanax. Have come off when I needed to. I think I may have built resistance though. It's difficult to know as I don't have panic attacks any more only more general anxiety
Fred
Posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 0:03:55
In reply to Re: ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS » Phillipa, posted by FredPotter on April 3, 2005, at 23:54:18
> Hey Phillipa same here except it's coming up to 41 years! Nyaaah! First Librium, then Valium, Ativan, Oxazepam and finally Xanax. Have come off when I needed to. I think I may have built resistance though. It's difficult to know as I don't have panic attacks any more only more general anxiety
> FredHI Ya Fred
1963 you got put on a benzo?-Wow valiums introduction!
What advice would an 'expert' on these meds-like you-have for some one whos been on em' for 2 years?-me.
Whats worked the best for you? a combo of several Benzos?
A high dose of 1?
Do you feel after 41! years you have been harmed by them-or protected from the ravages of anxiety?
Any feedback great.
Cheers
Posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2005, at 0:23:12
In reply to Re: ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS » paulbwell, posted by Maxime on April 3, 2005, at 23:32:30
I was once in a W/D unit for a few days when my thyroid went out of wack and they didn't know what it was. The pdocs I worked with liked me so they "hid " me out over the weekend. The added bonus was they withdrew me from xanax and alchol [when I used to drink] with valium in decreasing doseages. In 4 days I was on my last dose of 5mg of valium and felt great. So, like a jerk I went back to my old pdoc and he put me back on xanax. But what I saw when I was there were the people had l or 2 bad days using the valium and then were fine. Most were chronic abusers and one girl was drinking a fifth and taking 8mg of xanax at a time, daily. She had a rough time and was still there when everyone else left. The others went into a 28day program for addicts. They certainly aren't like the horror stories I've read here about coming off AD's. Now that I think of it I haven't taken remeron in about 5 days, and didn't even notice it. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2005, at 0:30:09
In reply to Phillipa, posted by paulbwell on April 3, 2005, at 23:18:15
Paulbwell, Thank-you for starting the best Thread I've been able to relate to in a long time. Dry alcholic my ***. Just because alchol and benzos target GABA doesn't mean they're the same. The only people who need beware are those whose chemistry is prone to addiction. What will happen to us when all the older pdocs are gone? And Fred, nice to meet someone who must be at least my age on PBabble! Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Ritch on April 4, 2005, at 10:45:39
In reply to ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS, posted by paulbwell on April 3, 2005, at 21:06:46
> Please, PB's
> I am looking for reasurance and advice from any long term 15-20+ year Regular anxiety medication users,-benzos, for a multiply diagnosed,(several specialists) sever medical condition, to help form part of treatment for this condition.
>
> I'm Sick of hearing the benzo 'horror stories'.of withdrawal hell etc..
> do benzos continue to be usefull over many years?,
> or have you found they exhasabate the problem.
>
> We are talking about a sever life-effecting condition, GAD, others, since late teens.If withdrawal from anxiety medication was acheived, what would be the point?, if the condition persists and interfers with QOL
>
> Any feed back from revelant persons greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks to all.I took Ativan and then Valium or Librium for about ten years and I never needed more than 5mg twice daily of Valium when I was on it (usually 2.5mg twice daily chronically was my dose). I was then off benzos and on Prozac for several more years (and endured panic attacks). I've been on clonazepam since the late '90's .5-1.0mg and it effectively blocks panic despite continued usage-no tolerance to the therapeutic symptoms it's designed to treat. I don't like taking 1.0mg though-I get a little stupid and depressed if I stay at that dosage. Fortunately, I don't need to for more than a few days at a time.
Posted by FredPotter on April 4, 2005, at 15:42:07
In reply to Hi Fred, posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 0:03:55
Hi there It was actually 1964 and the first one was Librium. Which didn't do much. None of them did much for my anxiety states until Xanax, and that may be because I believed in it. No I don't believe they've harmed me, but who knows?
Posted by FredPotter on April 4, 2005, at 15:49:19
In reply to Re: Phillipa, posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2005, at 0:30:09
Hi Phillipa yes I'm ancient (58 actually). After several years I discovered alcohol took away my terrible anxiety attacks completely - for a while. It became a big problem over the years and eventually I went to a rehab unit for 5 weeks based on 12 steps. I was told Xanax was like solid alcohol. What nonsense I thought. Alcohol gives a buzz. What sort of high can people get from a benzo? Beats me. I gave up booze 2 years ago. I'm generally much better, but no drug seems to properly control the anxiety
Fred
Posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2005, at 17:00:00
In reply to Re: Phillipa » Phillipa, posted by FredPotter on April 4, 2005, at 15:49:19
Well we're the same age. Librium didn't do anything for me either. I believe I took it a short while. That's probably when my Dad went on it for anxiety. He was a beer drinker. Later in life, before motrin was over the counter, his doc told him he wouldn't Rx it for him unless he stopped drinking. He did, and He died a couple of years later. I too, felt much better when I used to drink beer. It makes you wonder, they take away all your fun, you become depressed, and then life is not worth living. So are the benzos the answer or should be go back further to ETOH. BTW, I had no trouble giving up beer. I just don't see any point in going to a party or out to eat if you can't join in with everyone else. The docs scared me so badly about stopping breathing when I was asleep, that I'm terrified of a beer now. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 18:32:11
In reply to Re: Hi Fred » paulbwell, posted by FredPotter on April 4, 2005, at 15:42:07
> Hi there It was actually 1964 and the first one was Librium. Which didn't do much. None of them did much for my anxiety states until Xanax, and that may be because I believed in it. No I don't believe they've harmed me, but who knows?
Hi Fred,
Thanks very much for replying!
I'v heard one persons report of Librium -"like walking on air"
No benzos did much for you?- even if the dose was higher?-i'd imagine you *may* have been tried on some high doses to address this? and still no?
If these earlier benzos failed to help MUCH? then did you receive threapy with Barbiturates? or other anxiolytics? did this help?
surely something must have helped? especially back in the far more benevelent, prescribing 1960s?
After only 2 years, some Docs have tried to get me to community Drug and Alc organisations for "detox/weening", from-my medical use of medications-designed to treat the medical conditions-specialists have said I ail from.--crazy--
Has this been pushed/sugessted for you?.I have been perscribed Xanax, in the past, but only in low doses: 0.25mcg 3x day it sure does have a fast and short action!, maybe a higher/frequent dose would be more threaputic?
I'd rather take some minor memory impairment,(Benzos) than health damaging Anxiety anyday, or zombie numbness of most ssri's
Thanks.
Cheers P
Posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 19:07:10
In reply to Re: Hi Fred, posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 18:32:11
Hi!
Just out of interest, have you ever tried Nardil for your anxiety?
Ed.
Posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 19:11:30
In reply to Re: Hi Paul » paulbwell, posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 19:07:10
no
would it be usefull for ADHD. mood?anything like Imipramine?
Have you
Posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 19:44:02
In reply to Re: Hi Paul, posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 19:11:30
Hi P!
I just wondered whether you tried it because you said that you still suffer from anxiety despite the diazepam. What sort of anxiety do you suffer from? Do you have a diagnosis? What makes you anxious? What do you worry/panic about? What symptoms do you have? (Sorry!!!)
>would it be usefull for ADHD. mood?
It's often effective as an antidepressant. It might be somewhat effective for ADHD, Parnate might be better than Nardil. Combining MAOIs with stimulants can sometimes cause severe hypertension. Other people don't experience this effect however and can combine them quite happily. If you were on an MAOI, you'd initially have to take a *very* low dose of a stimulant, you blood pressure would need to be carefully monitored.
>anything like Imipramine?
No, it's nothing like imipramine- a TCA. Nardil and Parnate are MAOIs, hence the special diet- no cheese etc. Have you tried imipramine?
>Have you?
No. I just wondered whether you'd benefit since you mentioned that you'd tried a few SSRIs with no success. Nardil is often very effective for anxiety. What other treatments have you tried for your anxiety? eg. BuSpar etc.
Ed.
Posted by jerrympls on April 4, 2005, at 20:25:38
In reply to ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS, posted by paulbwell on April 3, 2005, at 21:06:46
> Please, PB's
> I am looking for reasurance and advice from any long term 15-20+ year Regular anxiety medication users,-benzos, for a multiply diagnosed,(several specialists) sever medical condition, to help form part of treatment for this condition.
>
> I'm Sick of hearing the benzo 'horror stories'.of withdrawal hell etc..
> do benzos continue to be usefull over many years?,
> or have you found they exhasabate the problem.
>
> We are talking about a sever life-effecting condition, GAD, others, since late teens.If withdrawal from anxiety medication was acheived, what would be the point?, if the condition persists and interfers with QOL
>
> Any feed back from revelant persons greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks to all.HI Paul
I've been on and off benzos for 13 years. They have ALWAYS worked and I have NEVER EVER EVER had withdrawl from them. I've grown tolerant to their sedating effects, but they continue to quell my anxiety.
Jerry
Posted by jay on April 4, 2005, at 20:33:02
In reply to ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS, posted by paulbwell on April 3, 2005, at 21:06:46
> Please, PB's
> I am looking for reasurance and advice from any long term 15-20+ year Regular anxiety medication users,-benzos, for a multiply diagnosed,(several specialists) sever medical condition, to help form part of treatment for this condition.
>
> I'm Sick of hearing the benzo 'horror stories'.of withdrawal hell etc..
> do benzos continue to be usefull over many years?,
> or have you found they exhasabate the problem.
>
> We are talking about a sever life-effecting condition, GAD, others, since late teens.If withdrawal from anxiety medication was acheived, what would be the point?, if the condition persists and interfers with QOL
>
> Any feed back from revelant persons greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks to all.You can count me and my Dad in on this. We are both around our 11th year. I've taken all kinds, highest to lowest doses, stopped right away...never had ANY problems. I think what people call 'withdrawl' is when they just use only a benzo, get depressed on it (as is a normal side effect), and don't know what to do or to turn to when they stop it cold turkey. Anyhow..people will hate me for saying that...but I believe it's the truth.
Best,
Jay
Posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2005, at 20:39:15
In reply to Re: ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS » paulbwell, posted by jay on April 4, 2005, at 20:33:02
If a person has panic attacks and GAD that are with them 24/7, then I don't feel benzos are a cause of depression. They relieve the anxiety so you can resume your life. Panic can paralyze you. If you take a benzo and don't really need one than I feel it might depress you. Klonopin is known to depress some people me included. While for others is a fine medication. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 21:40:34
In reply to Re: Hi Paul » paulbwell, posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 19:44:02
> Hi P!
>
> I just wondered whether you tried it because you said that you still suffer from anxiety despite the diazepam. What sort of anxiety do you suffer from? Do you have a diagnosis? What makes you anxious? What do you worry/panic about? What symptoms do you have? (Sorry!!!)
>
> >would it be usefull for ADHD. mood?
>
> It's often effective as an antidepressant. It might be somewhat effective for ADHD, Parnate might be better than Nardil. Combining MAOIs with stimulants can sometimes cause severe hypertension. Other people don't experience this effect however and can combine them quite happily. If you were on an MAOI, you'd initially have to take a *very* low dose of a stimulant, you blood pressure would need to be carefully monitored.
>
> >anything like Imipramine?
>
> No, it's nothing like imipramine- a TCA. Nardil and Parnate are MAOIs, hence the special diet- no cheese etc. Have you tried imipramine?
>
> >Have you?
>
> No. I just wondered whether you'd benefit since you mentioned that you'd tried a few SSRIs with no success. Nardil is often very effective for anxiety. What other treatments have you tried for your anxiety? eg. BuSpar etc.
>
> Ed.Man you are 1 f**king knowledgeable dude for a 20yo!!!!.
but i would have been to if this internet thing had been around since the early 1990s.do you freak your frends/acquantances out with pb stuff?
All i knew at 20 was that there was something different bout me, where I tried to live like my m8s but suffered for it, and had terrible anxiety, and difficulty keeping a job. I was constantly searching for the reason why I was like I was. I SUFFERED for MANY years untreated, while my life stalled.
I was put on Xanax by a Psydoc over 2 years ago for GAD-panic.
I prefered the sedation from the Diazepam thought-more predictable, thought as stated ED, I'm tolarant to the sadation now.Nothing MAKES me anxious or panic-well Flying maybe.
I tried Imipramine-gained 8kgs in 4 weeks and fainted twice.
I hope I answered you, forgotten the rest.
You obviously have an interest in Pharmacy/Medication/drugs---like me, follow it, my frend, you will be unhappy doing anything else, i think.
Til nxt time
Posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 21:44:53
In reply to Re: ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS » paulbwell, posted by jay on April 4, 2005, at 20:33:02
I seem to have something of a habit of starting long threads. I wonder if this is good or not.
p
Posted by jerrympls on April 4, 2005, at 22:00:52
In reply to Above for ED-UK, posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 21:44:53
> I seem to have something of a habit of starting long threads. I wonder if this is good or not.
>
> pPaul-I think long-threads are the best - many people share their opinions & experiences and it helps when someone new is looking for a lot of "real" experiences...
Jerry
Posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2005, at 22:01:39
In reply to Above for ED-UK, posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 21:44:53
This is a Great Thread! It's good when you bring so many people out that have the same problem and concerns and let them know that they're not alone. I know I thought I was. It seems all you read about are the AD's and mood stabilizers. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 22:02:57
In reply to Re: Hi Paul, posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 21:40:34
Hi P!
>I tried Imipramine-gained 8kgs in 4 weeks and fainted twice.
Well... Nardil often causes weight gain. It sometimes causes fainting too. It's nothing like imipramine though so you might like it!
>All i knew at 20 was that there was something different bout me, where I tried to live like my m8s but suffered for it, and had terrible anxiety, and difficulty keeping a job. I was constantly searching for the reason why I was like I was. I SUFFERED for MANY years untreated, while my life stalled.
What was different about you? (Apart from your anxiety)
Ed.
Posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2005, at 22:05:52
In reply to Re: Hi Paul » paulbwell, posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 22:02:57
Hi Ed! Yes, you definitely like to stay up at night. Have you slept at all? It's early morning there right? And you have a big day ahead of you. Fondly Phillipa, J OOOOOO
Posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 22:12:30
In reply to Re: Hi Paul » ed_uk, posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2005, at 22:05:52
Hi P!
>Yes, you definitely like to stay up at night.
I woke up very late so I haven't really been awake for that long! My circadian rhythms are totally messed up atm!
Ed xxx
Posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 22:21:42
In reply to Re: Hi Paul » paulbwell, posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 22:02:57
> Hi P!
>
> >I tried Imipramine-gained 8kgs in 4 weeks and fainted twice.
>
> Well... Nardil often causes weight gain. It sometimes causes fainting too. It's nothing like imipramine though so you might like it!
>
> >All i knew at 20 was that there was something different bout me, where I tried to live like my m8s but suffered for it, and had terrible anxiety, and difficulty keeping a job. I was constantly searching for the reason why I was like I was. I SUFFERED for MANY years untreated, while my life stalled.
>
> What was different about you? (Apart from your anxiety)
>
> Ed.
I was biochemically imballenced for a long time, and didn't know what to do about it.I should have got medical help sooner. I tried
WE LIVE AND LEARN.
Posted by FredPotter on April 5, 2005, at 0:11:51
In reply to Re: Phillipa » FredPotter, posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2005, at 17:00:00
Hi Phillipa I'm much better off without ETOH but like you say going to a party or a bar is so boring. Last week I deliberately sat at the table where they were drinking too much. They were more fun to be with. Like smokers. I miss the fun of drinking more than anything
Fred
Posted by FredPotter on April 5, 2005, at 0:32:06
In reply to Re: Hi Fred, posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 18:32:11
Hi Paul there's something atypical about my anxiety in that it's very deep and emotional rather than jittery. So I don't suppose benzos ever really did much. All the ADs were tried and may have helped. I'm not convinced. Therapy didn't help much. I'm now washed up on the shores of late middle age with whatever was last prescribed for me. They may help or as I suspect may not. Viz Xanax, Celexa, Lithium and Imovane for sleep. I take L-Tyrosine to give me some energy, which may help, but the most energising thing for me is hard work and feeling part of a community. I think it's taken 58 years for me to grow up. A couple of key attitudes about really basic human things have done most good for me I think. And they weren't taught me by therapy either. Osmosis I think.
I used alcohol as an anxiolytic for decades and I think unfortunately it was the only drug that ever worked, for it eventually caused damage to me and my life and I had to give it up. That's done me a lot of good though, although it's a bit sensible and boring sometimes.
Yes they've tried to persuade me about the evils of benzos and when I went to hospital with alcohol poisoning they decided that was the time to force me off Xanax. Pretty dumb. I had a seizure and went unconscious for a couple of days. They found me outside in the hospital grounds in the rain with hypotension and hypothermia. I have a memory of the onset of the seizure but the rest is like a dream.
Sorry not to be more positive about drugs. I don't believe any of my present well-being has been caused by them. But neither do I feel any compulsion to stop them. I don't remember any memory loss (ha!)
All the best Paul - good thread Fred
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