![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 42 to 66 of 66. Go back in thread:
Posted by Maxime on April 2, 2005, at 18:50:16
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » barbaracat, posted by Phillipa on April 2, 2005, at 16:40:21
Um, Phillipa. "In my book" is often used as an expression. I don't think Barbara has actually written one. But if she has I will run out and buy it. :)
Maxime
> Barbaracat, What is the name of your book? I didn't realize you were an author. I knew you knew your stuff, but didn't know the extent. I've fought with endocrinologists, etc for years and as long as "your complete thyroid panel is WNL" you're okay. As I've said in previous Threads, one of the things that struck me when I worked as a psych RN in the hospital, were the number of pts who had thyroid problems. They were getting blamed for being noncompiant with meds, complainers, etc. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on April 2, 2005, at 18:57:52
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me, posted by Maxime on April 2, 2005, at 18:50:16
Oh Maxime, I have to blame it on the pain from the surgery. I'm trying to stay busy but I can't concentrate. I'm blown up like a balloon. I think my head will blow away, or pop! If she didn't write a book, maybe she will now. Sorry Barbaracat. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by barbaracat on April 2, 2005, at 19:52:42
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » barbaracat, posted by Phillipa on April 2, 2005, at 16:40:21
Phillipa,
Ah, my Dear, I'm flattered, but I don't have a book, at least not published as of yet (although working on it). I probably said something like 'in my book, this is what I'd do blah blah' as a figure of speach.But there are a few good books out there that address this thyroid epidemic. A good one is "Thyroid Power" by Richard and Karolee Shames, whom I know personally and can vouch for their dedication in this field. Another is the website www.thryoid.about.com, which is a wealth of information, simply great. Most docs I've talked to don't even know about this site, which they definitely should.
What's true is that most docs stop at the TSH numbers and don't go further on to test free T4, free T3, reverse T3, and thyroiditis autoimmune antibodies. TSH simply measures the feedback of how much T4 is floating around in the blood, NOT how well its being converted to T3 and used inside the cell. But then, extra tests cost money and time so unless you specifically know what you want and make a pest of yourself until you get what you deserve, you're at the mercy of the status quo.
Another overlooked contributor is pesticides, heavy metal toxicity, and surprise surprise, flouride! Flouridated water is a tragic misconception that it's doing a great thing. It replaces calcium in the teeth and bones and competes for thyroxine hormone. My husband and I are actively involved in preventing a statewide injunction to flouridate all drinking water. If you want flouride for teeth, get it topically, not systemically. Such folly!
> Barbaracat, What is the name of your book? I didn't realize you were an author. I knew you knew your stuff, but didn't know the extent. I've fought with endocrinologists, etc for years and as long as "your complete thyroid panel is WNL" you're okay. As I've said in previous Threads, one of the things that struck me when I worked as a psych RN in the hospital, were the number of pts who had thyroid problems. They were getting blamed for being noncompiant with meds, complainers, etc. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on April 2, 2005, at 20:10:19
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » Phillipa, posted by barbaracat on April 2, 2005, at 19:52:42
Barbaracat, Oh well you had your moment of fame! Hopefully this will spur you on to finish that dissertation I believe you are trying to work on. Or, maybe it was a message telling you, you should write a book. Since I have had an elevated ANA for years, I was lucky enough that they tested me for Hashimotos Thyroiditis and that's what I have. In the past 8 years, I've only had to change doseages one time when my anxiety went sky high and my TSH was 22. I always make them do a complete thyroid panel. Since I've been treated by the Head of Infection Control at Pitt Memorial Hospital in Greenville, NC for chronic lymes disease he is quite through. He is a true detective and it seems that he is doing the opposite of other doctors. He is always trying to find something wrong! When we told him our insurance was running out, he ordered an endocrinologist consult, as well as a neurologist consult. I never knew who was coming to see me when I got myself admitted to the hospital to find a new pdoc. Thanks for the website. I will visit it later as my head is blown up like a balloon from the surgery. Fondly, Phillipa PS I had a little savings that I decided to use as you only live once!
Posted by barbaracat on April 2, 2005, at 20:33:22
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » barbaracat, posted by Maxime on April 2, 2005, at 18:47:46
> Right now, for me to find an OB-Gyn is next to impossible. There are not enough in Montreal to go around. Really. Actually we have such a crisis on our hands here. There are thousands of Montrealers who cannot get a GP. As a result the ERs are always full. The ERs are so full that patients lie in gurneys in the halls.
**Jeez, I didn't realize it was so bad. We hear all about the wonders of socialized medicine like you folks have, but it sure doesn't seem like the answer. It sounds like what's happening is you're so strapped for doctors, quality is being sacrificed. That's why I put my health in the capable hands of naturopaths (had to search around till I found a good one). They consider the whole person, use superior testing methods, and usually are associated with some good docs to get hooked up to. I pay for it out of pocket which I can ill afford, but I can't afford the bullsh*t I get from the idiot healthcare system either. Again, you may need to forget about free care and take a trip down south or find a alternative doc practicing outside of this disgraceful system. I'd be hapy to help out with suggestions to find someone if you want to go this route.
>
> My pdoc wants me to have ECT. There is no way I will ever have it. But can you imagine if I said "yes" and all my problems were endocrine? Jolting my body with an electrical current isn't going to help things.**No, especially if your adrenals are already fried. I'm not surprised at the incredibly lame response you go from your endo. It only shows his ignorance and ego. If he got over his hubris, he'd realize how crucial a part the adrenals play in our overall health. They produce cortisol, the stress hormone, for Pete's sake! They're the primary producer of sex hormones after menopause. They become enlarged from a contstant onslaught of cortisol production and simply poop out. A no brainer, in my estimation, however, because I am not an endo, endos usually pat me on the head and smile indulgently. I smile sweetly (they don't like uppity) and say "I understand you expected better results from your treatment, however, I appear to not be feeling better. I dont't feel as though I'm improving on this protocol. How can we work together on improving this? (notice the 'we'. They don't like that, but it sends a clear message). My current OB-GYN said that most endos she knows like to wear fussy bow ties and as a rule, feel it's beneath them to work with hypothyroid patients and would rather do the 'real stuff', like radiate and operate on a thyroid glad.
If you haven't yet come across "Adrenal Fatigue" by J. Wilson, highly recommended.
ECT may not be out of the question and could help to reset the switch, but only in a system that can take the juice. Getting zapped in a depleted system, well, your intuitive hit seems right on.
But one thing I'm not clear on at this point, Maxine, what are your TSH numbers? what's the state of your endocrine health as you know it, and how do you suspect you have an endocrine imbalance? It may not just be your thyroid, although thyroid is interrelated with all the hormones. Have you had your estrogen/progesterone/DHEA/testosterone levels checked? This might be asking too much of the Canadian health care system, but there are ways of testing these things yourself through online sources. You may need to say 'screw these doctors' and blaze your own trail. I can't tell you how many of my acquaintences and myself have had to do this. Thank God for the internet! (despite what your endo thinks).
If along the way you bump into a really talented and dedicated healer, then bless them. So, my own very basic formula, the foundation on which everything else rests is HORMONAL BALANCE. No amount of lithium, SSRI's ECT or anything will hold for long without this basic foundation. Whatever you have to do, out of pocket, internet magicians, whatever, don't let Cro-Magnon medicine keep you stuck. - Barbara
>
> I know more about the thyroid than I do the adrenal glands. I see my endo on the 11 so I have until then to learn all I can. I told the endo I thought I might have a conversion problem. He just laughed. He asked me if I had read about it on the internet. I said "no I read about it in one of the 6 books I have read about the thyroid and hypothyroidism". Do they expect to remain in the dark? Don't they want us to be informed?
>
> Thanks for listening.
>
> Maxime
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hypothyroid can most definitely cause anxiety, panic, shakyness, hot flashes. Weird when you think that it also can cause tiredness, sluggishness, coldness. Basically, it shuts down the cells' mitochrondria from producing energy and that can take the form of so many symptoms, depending on what cells are involved. Thyroid is needed for the whole estrogen pathway and estrogen is required to make neurotransmitters. It shuts down digestion. It's needed for regulation of the temperature sensor in the hypothalamus, so sometimes you're hot, others cold. It's all interconnected in ways that are tailor made for our private hells.
> >
> > The highest my TSH ever got was 18 and I can't believe how awful I felt. Deep joint pains, an inner damp chill and cold sweats, panic and depression, everything seeming overwhelming, fuzzy thinking, chronic constipation. This is not a good thing for someone prone to bipolar depression. It doesn't take much to swing me into a bleak frenzied despair and hypothyroidism is a very good stressor.
> >
> > Even if your TSH is now showing in the low range and you're still have symptoms, basic thyroidology tells us that there may be a dysfunction in the cells' ability to convert T4 to the active T3, so yes, there may be enough T4 in the blood due to Synthroid, but the cells are not making the best use of it. Enter Cytomel! Made all the difference to me.
> >
> > You also need to consider your adrenals. Many conventional doctors poo-poo adrendal fatigue, but it's a very real condition. Stress over a long time can cause the adrenals to overproduce cortisol which leads to all kinds of problems down the line including damage to the adrenal glands themselves. These glands are the secondary producers of the sex hormones and thyroid. Word has it that if the adrenals are not brought back to a decent functioning order, the rest of the the hormones are going to falter.
> >
> > Maxine, it sounds to me that you are in a loop of clueless doctors and are going around in fruitless circles. I'm totally unaware of the Canadian health system, but I would hope you could jettison these jerks and find someone else. Getting cancelled at the last minute two times would be quite enough for me, thank you very much, and said putz would receive a very pointed letter informing him of my feelings.
> >
> > A TSH of 25 calls for immediate action, like serious hup-to-it wow! let's get moving! Your posts and sense of desperation that comes through is very typical of someone in the throes of a serious thyroid imbalance. I am not taking this lightly. I have walked in your shoes and I quite simply urge you to find and demand better care. You need to stop wasting your precious energy trying to convince these people who seem to be missing the basic rudiments of Endocrinology 101, especially your endo.
> >
> > I totally agree with Tamara. An OB-Gyn may be your best bet. The one I've recently found has been a treasure. She understands hormones, all of them, she understand how absolutely crucial it is to have them in balance. Otherwise, all the pills we take to make us sane are just a waste of money. In other words, you DO NOT need an endo. I think you'll find alot of concurrence that endos are pretty worthless for standard thyroid problems. I don't know why this is, I think if you have thryoid cancer, or some extreme desease state, an endo is your man - they can operate and radiate. But for the rest of us, all they can seem to do is prescribe Synthroid.
> >
> > In my book, two basic things are needed for life - 1. energy, 2. hope. If you don't have enough life force, energy, everthing is hard and you lose hope. So put that brilliant mind to work to get yourself a good health team and kiss these jokers goodbuy.
> >
>
>
Posted by barbaracat on April 2, 2005, at 20:40:26
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » barbaracat, posted by Phillipa on April 2, 2005, at 20:10:19
Thanks for your encouragement to get my book finished. You know how it is. Everything else takes precidence.
I believe I have hashimoto's as well, but my docs all say there's no difference in treatment. Have you found this to be the case? Doesn't elevated ALA point to possible Lupus or rheumatoid issues? Have you had this checked into?
BTW, did you get vision laser surgery or did you really treat yourself and now have 16 year-old eyelids? If so, I'm jealous! - Barbaracat
, Oh well you had your moment of fame! Hopefully this will spur you on to finish that dissertation I believe you are trying to work on. Or, maybe it was a message telling you, you should write a book. Since I have had an elevated ANA for years, I was lucky enough that they tested me for Hashimotos Thyroiditis and that's what I have. In the past 8 years, I've only had to change doseages one time when my anxiety went sky high and my TSH was 22. I always make them do a complete thyroid panel. Since I've been treated by the Head of Infection Control at Pitt Memorial Hospital in Greenville, NC for chronic lymes disease he is quite through. He is a true detective and it seems that he is doing the opposite of other doctors. He is always trying to find something wrong! When we told him our insurance was running out, he ordered an endocrinologist consult, as well as a neurologist consult. I never knew who was coming to see me when I got myself admitted to the hospital to find a new pdoc. Thanks for the website. I will visit it later as my head is blown up like a balloon from the surgery. Fondly, Phillipa PS I had a little savings that I decided to use as you only live once!
Posted by Phillipa on April 2, 2005, at 22:14:25
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » Phillipa, posted by barbaracat on April 2, 2005, at 20:40:26
Yes, they treat it the same. Synthroid. They like to keep my level at the low end of normal [TSH] as it is supposed to help with depression. Let's put it this way I plead temporary insanity. I had the whold job done. Right now I'm unable to chew or make the left side of my mouth smile. I hope he didn't damage a nerve. The eyes also. Like I said you only live once, and what good is money in the bank if you die of a heart attack! And I've tested negative for Lupus, RA, and Sjornes, Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on April 2, 2005, at 22:34:42
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » Maxime, posted by barbaracat on April 2, 2005, at 20:33:22
All I know is that my TSH was 1.2 at my last appointment and my endo was happy with that. Sigh. I have blood requisition test form and I have to get it drawn this week for my appointment on 11th. All he ticked off was TSH and Free T4 - grrrrr. Not even my Free T3!!! It's not even option on the form.
I have never had an extensive panel done by him. I was on Synthroid when my TSH went to 25 but that was because of the Dilantin.
I had an extensive panel of testing done when I lived out west in Calgary. I remember the doctor saying I had weird things going on with thyroid. That I could swing either way etc. Unfortunately I moved back to Montreal before we could start treatment. My dad had passed away. So I told my GP in Montreal ( I live in Calgary for 7 years but I am from MOntreal). She did some blood tests and put me on Synthroid. At that time I wasn't as proactive about my health as I am now so I just assumed she did the necessary tests. Besides nothing seemed to matter since my dad had died.
I tried to find her 6 months ago. She is not working in Calgary anymore. I was hoping I could get those blood test results.
Can you babble-mail me on how to do stuff online?
Thanks.
Maxime
> But one thing I'm not clear on at this point, Maxine, what are your TSH numbers? what's the state of your endocrine health as you know it, and how do you suspect you have an endocrine imbalance? It may not just be your thyroid, although thyroid is interrelated with all the hormones. Have you had your estrogen/progesterone/DHEA/testosterone levels checked? This might be asking too much of the Canadian health care system, but there are ways of testing these things yourself through online sources. You may need to say 'screw these doctors' and blaze your own trail. I can't tell you how many of my acquaintences and myself have had to do this. Thank God for the internet! (despite what your endo thinks).
Posted by Phillipa on April 2, 2005, at 23:27:31
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me, posted by Maxime on April 2, 2005, at 22:34:42
Well, I looked up my TSH. in Dec 04 is was l.39, May of 02 it was 2.17, April 02 2.88, March 01 2.30. and May 2000 4.60. The T4 in Dec 04 was 9.4.Normal ranges for TSH are 0.35-5.50 and T4 4.5-l0.9. I wonder why my TSH keeps going down? Fondly,Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on April 3, 2005, at 0:40:00
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » Maxime, posted by Phillipa on April 2, 2005, at 23:27:31
> Well, I looked up my TSH. in Dec 04 is was l.39, May of 02 it was 2.17, April 02 2.88, March 01 2.30. and May 2000 4.60. The T4 in Dec 04 was 9.4.Normal ranges for TSH are 0.35-5.50 and T4 4.5-l0.9. I wonder why my TSH keeps going down? Fondly,Phillipa
A lot of things affect your TSH level. Your TSH is lower in the morning, so when you have your blood test can make a difference. Your hormones can affect it. Now 5.50 is considered too high and most endos like to see a reading between 2-3. At least you are having the proper blood tests done. I think you are in good hands.
I think I will tell me endo that my doctor wants me to have ECT and I would really like him to help me by checking that everything is okay with my hormones etc. before I consent to having ECT (which I won't). Maybe it will boost his ego. He can "save" me.
God this is so f*cked up.
Maxime
Posted by Phillipa on April 3, 2005, at 15:42:45
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » Phillipa, posted by Maxime on April 3, 2005, at 0:40:00
Good idea! Flatter him. And if he thinks you want ECT, he will surely do the testing. It's a shame we have to "trick" these pdocs. But, I just don't understand why they ignore women. Except I don't think they know all that much about hormones as demonstrated by the panic with HRT. After all women weren't supposed to live past menopause. Now maybe a whole new subspecialty will form just for older women and their unique problems. But, I won't hold my breath! Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by barbaracat on April 3, 2005, at 20:26:45
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me, posted by Maxime on April 2, 2005, at 22:34:42
> All I know is that my TSH was 1.2 at my last
**That's a good number and makes me wonder if something else is going on, like adrenals or other hormones.
> Can you babble-mail me on how to do stuff online?
**Here you go. This lab does the most extensive home testing I'm aware of. I'm not 100% sure but I don't think you need a Dr. script for any of them.
http://www.salivatest.com/index.html
>
** Sorry about your Dad. I know how that can knock you over. My Mom was hit by a car two Christmas's ago and I still get hit by waves of grief on a regular basis.
>
Posted by barbaracat on April 3, 2005, at 20:50:04
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » Maxime, posted by Phillipa on April 3, 2005, at 15:42:45
**Those HRT tests were a joke, a stinkin' lousy travesty. They used conjugated horse piss estrogens and synthetic progesterones and OF COURSE the results were scary. The bioidentical hormone camp has been saying for years that these conjugated and synthetic hormones are poison. Pregnant horse urine contains very potent estrogens that are foreign to women's bodies and get concentrated into the bad kind that contribute to breast and uterine cancers. And then the dumb sh*t examiners make a blanket scare statement based on the results of this pharmaceutical crap and never mention that there are alternatives, namely bioidentical hormones and tests to measure exactly how much are needed. I'd like to give the dumb sh*ts the benefit of the doubt that they're not aware there are alternatives. But no matter, it's tragic that women are now afraid to get hormonal support during the hell that menopause can be. Ooooh, don't get me started.
>>Except I don't think they know all that much about hormones as demonstrated by the panic with HRT. After all women weren't supposed to live past menopause. Now maybe a whole new subspecialty will form just for older women and their unique problems. But, I won't hold my breath! Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on April 3, 2005, at 22:01:01
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » Maxime, posted by barbaracat on April 3, 2005, at 20:26:45
I know my TSH is a good number. I take 175 mcg of synthroid. But is my body using it? Like you said there are other tests that should be done my Free T3 etc.
Thanks for the link. I will take things into my own hands. I only hope I can afford it.
Maxi
> > All I know is that my TSH was 1.2 at my last
>
> **That's a good number and makes me wonder if something else is going on, like adrenals or other hormones.
>
> > Can you babble-mail me on how to do stuff online?
>
> **Here you go. This lab does the most extensive home testing I'm aware of. I'm not 100% sure but I don't think you need a Dr. script for any of them.
>
> http://www.salivatest.com/index.html
> >
> ** Sorry about your Dad. I know how that can knock you over. My Mom was hit by a car two Christmas's ago and I still get hit by waves of grief on a regular basis.
> >
>
Posted by TamaraJ on April 3, 2005, at 22:22:44
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me, posted by Maxime on April 3, 2005, at 22:01:01
Maxime,
FYI - all from this website: http://www.modern-psychiatry.com/thyroid.htm
T4 and T3 have been shown to make anti-depressants work more quickly and to work in cases where the medication alone was not being effective. At least one study has found that a combination of both T3 and T4 worked best on mood. Actually, this is what occurs in nature and what occurs when physicians give the traditional dessicated thyroid. However, a recent small double-blind study of non-depressed hypothyroid patients did not find any benefit for using both medications.
----------
T-3 Helps Tricyclics Work Faster: A meta-analysis of 5 imip and 1 amitrip studies from the 70’s found not only a higher percentage of responders but also a more rapid rate of response, esp for females. Dosages ranged from 20-25 micrograms/d. AJP 01;158:1617
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Thyroid Adjunct Helps: T-3 may accelerate (Altshuler ’01) and Augment (Joffe ’93, Aronsen ’96) tricyclic action. T-4 helpful for rapid cycling (Stancer ’82, Bauer ’86). T-4 for 3-5 years at 250-500 microg/d adjunct thought helpful. One case increased lithium tremor due to T-4. Low rate of side-effects with supraphysiol dose compared to that of thyroid disorder patients. Four studies have found no bone demineralization with T-4 at supraphysiol doses. Recommens long-term only for refractory patients. Bauser ’02 Neuropsychopharm 27:620-8.
-----------
**** Abnormal T3-RU levels are rather uncommon in outpatient depression and do not correlate with the response to antidepressant treatment or lack thereof. MGH, Int J Psychiatry Med 2001;31(4):367-73; T3 blood levels and treatment outcome in depression. Iosifescu DV, Howarth S, Alpert JE, Nierenberg AA, Worthington JJ, Fava M.; But: 65 patients in the depressed phase of bipolar I disorder who were enrolled in a larger ongoing study. A panel of thyroid measures, including thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH), thyroxine, triiodothyronine resin uptake, and free thyroxine index (FTI), were determined before initiation of algorithm-guided treatment. The effect of each thyroid measurement on time to remission was estimated by using the Cox proportional hazards model. RESULTS: Both lower values of FTI and higher values of TSH were significantly associated with longer times to remission, i.e., slower response to treatment. Outcomes were relatively poor unless patients had FTI values above the median and TSH values below the median. Patients with this optimal profile experienced remission 4 months faster than the remainder of the study group. CONCLUSIONS: This study provides further evidence that patients with bipolar disorder are particularly sensitive to variations in thyroid function within the normal range. Our results suggest that nearly three-quarters of patients with bipolar disorder have a thyroid profile that may be suboptimal for antidepressant response. Slower treatment response in bipolar depression predicted by lower pretreatment thyroid function. Cole DP, Thase ME, Mallinger AG, Soares JC, Luther JF, Kupfer DJ, Frank E. Am J Psychiatry 2002 Jan;159(1):116-21; UCLA, Does thyroid supplementation accelerate tricyclic antidepressant response? A review and meta-analysis of the literature. Altshuler LL, Bauer M, Frye MA, Gitlin MJ, Mintz J, Szuba MP, Leight KL, Whybrow PC.
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T3 = Lithium as TCA Adjunct: DBPC 2 weeks 50 outpatients, males and females, with unipolar, nonpsychotic major depression who had failed to respond to treatment with desipramine hydrochloride or imipramine hydrochloride. RESULTS: Both liothyronine and lithium were more effective than placebo in reducing scores on the Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression. However, the antidepressant augmenting effect of these two compounds did not differ from each other. When response was defined as a 50% or more reduction in the Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression scores and a final score less than 10, we found that 10 of 17 subjects responded to liothyronine, nine of 17 responded to lithium and three of 16 responded to placebo. Arch Gen Psychiatry 1993 May;50(5):387-93; A placebo-controlled comparison of lithium and triiodothyronine augmentation of tricyclic antidepressants in unipolar refractory depression. Joffe RT, Singer W, Levitt AJ, MacDonald C.
-----------T3 Helped TCA-T4 Non-responders in Open Trial: T3 augmentation therapy for eight depressed patients who had not responded to an adequate antidepressant drug trial and who were receiving T4 therapy for thyroid disease. T3 was prescribed in open-label fashion, and response was judged by the clinician, whose assessment was supplemented by the use of standardized rating scales. RESULTS: Seven of the nine patients were judged to respond to T3 augmentation. U Toronto, T3 augmentation of antidepressant treatment in T4-replaced thyroid patients. Cooke RG, Joffe RT, Levitt AJ. J Clin Psychiatry 1992 Jan;53(1):16-8
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T3 Helps Desipramine Rx: 38 depressed patients, we observed an increased response to antidepressant treatment with the addition of triiodothyronine but not equivalent doses of thyroxine (T4). The finding is consistent with the decreases in plasma T4 levels which accompany an antidepressant response to desipramine. U Toronto, Antidepressants and thyroid hormone levels. Joffe RT, Singer W. Acta Med Austriaca 1992;19 Suppl 1:96-7
Tamara
Posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 8:05:55
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » Phillipa, posted by barbaracat on April 3, 2005, at 20:50:04
Hi!
Just out of interest... Is a controlled release formulation of T3 marketed in the US? We've just got the immediate release T3 here- Tertroxin.
Ed.
Posted by barbaracat on April 4, 2005, at 18:24:16
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » barbaracat, posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 8:05:55
I don't know of any brands, just the ones formulated by a compounding pharmacy. I believe things have improved from a few years ago when I tried it. I experienced a dump all at once instead of sustained release and just went back to Cytomel twice a day.
> Just out of interest... Is a controlled release formulation of T3 marketed in the US? We've just got the immediate release T3 here- Tertroxin.
>
> Ed.
Posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 18:32:58
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » ed_uk, posted by barbaracat on April 4, 2005, at 18:24:16
Hi B!
>....just went back to Cytomel twice a day.
And it worked :-)
Ed.
Posted by barbaracat on April 4, 2005, at 19:02:18
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » barbaracat, posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 18:32:58
Yes, it seems to work better than straight T4. Although 10mg T3 isn't all that much it seems to kick start the T4 into behaving. The synthetic combo also works better than the dessicated liver Armour brand because it had too high a T3 ratio for me. As well as T1 and T2 that no one seems to know much about.
> Hi B!
>
> >....just went back to Cytomel twice a day.
>
> And it worked :-)
>
> Ed.
>
Posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 19:11:43
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » ed_uk, posted by barbaracat on April 4, 2005, at 19:02:18
Hi B!
>The synthetic combo also works better than the dessicated...........
Yes, I like the idea of being able to adjust the doses of T3 and T4 individually- it provides a greater flexibility.
Ed.
Posted by reefer on April 7, 2005, at 18:45:43
In reply to My doctor can't help me, posted by Maxime on March 29, 2005, at 12:50:41
Have you tried any opiods for your depression? I take non-prescribed buprenorphine at 0.2/mg 3x daily and it lifted my depression from day one. I've been on the same dose since december. So tolerance doesn't seem to be a problem with this drug.
Posted by Maxime on April 8, 2005, at 10:40:22
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me, posted by reefer on April 7, 2005, at 18:45:43
> Have you tried any opiods for your depression? I take non-prescribed buprenorphine at 0.2/mg 3x daily and it lifted my depression from day one. I've been on the same dose since december. So tolerance doesn't seem to be a problem with this drug.
No I have never tried opiods. I don't think my pdoc would go for it. He might ... but I really doubt it. Although it is something I wish I could at least try.
Thanks for the suggestion!
Maxime
Posted by barbaracat on April 8, 2005, at 12:45:15
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me, posted by reefer on April 7, 2005, at 18:45:43
> > Have you tried any opiods for your depression? I take non-prescribed buprenorphine at 0.2/mg 3x daily and it lifted my depression from day one. I've been on the same dose since december. So tolerance doesn't seem to be a problem with this drug.
>
** Do you take bupe sublingually? I hear that's the optimum way.There was a regular poster to this board, Elizabeth, extremently brilliant and offered very helpful advice to all who asked. I think she left for medical school. She is sorely missed. Anyhow, she had very treatment resistant depression and the only thing that truly helped was buprenorphine which she took on an ongoing basis. I think at last count she was looking at taking it as a nasal spray to cut down on tolerance issues.
I have a source for buprenorphine and am going to give it a try. I found oxycontin and hydrocodone to be very helpful in lifing depression and I've heard that buprenorphine is even better for this. Plus, I just like how opiods make me feel and I have never, not ever developed any addiction problems or otherwise when I had a ready supply for fibromyalgia pain. I doubt I'd abuse it because I never have before. Now that I've got better health and wits about me, no need to now. I doubt I'd do it more than infrequently and when needed because the constipation thing was always a self-limiting factor - but I've got a better understanding on how to deal with this.
In short, I find it distasteful to allow a med to have control over me, as long as I use it and it doesn't use me. I had an addiction to methedrine 30 years ago. It was bad and nothing like that has or will ever happen again.
For the ocassional rough spot, there's nothing like a nice opiod soothing glow. It is immediate relief and not sloppy or damaging like alcohol. Pain is pain, psychic or physical and I'm grateful we have substances that can take the sharp edge off it. I also know that I'm not always in pain and those are the times I don't want or need a pain med. I realize not everyone can take it or leave it and that seems to be the important deciding issue.
Like others who take it, it's rarely prescribed by our docs. It's usually the maveriks who decide to just try things and not seek permission. Im finding I need to explain myself here because of the criminal seedy element people associate with taking opiods 'on the lam'. I figure it's my life, I'm not hurting anyone, I have good common sense, and if I played the nice obedient girl who let her doctors make all her decisions, I'd still be a very crazy girl with no chutzpah. - Barbara
Posted by reefer on April 10, 2005, at 15:27:24
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » reefer, posted by barbaracat on April 8, 2005, at 12:45:15
I buy 8 mg sublingual tablets from opiate addicts, 7 pills go for $100. I then proceed to crush them up in a zip bag to a fine powder. I insufflate(snort) it instead of taking it sublingually(under the tounge) because the effect is felt faster this makes it much easier to dose properly. By now i know by eye how much i should take to make it 1 mg/day(divided in 3 doses). I guess you figured it out already but this makes 1 pill last me a week. So it's about $15 a week which i consider is a very low price to pay for the very high effectivity on anxiety and depression this drug has. I'll also explain why i think it's so much better than the other full opiod agonist drugs.
1. It doesn't cause tolerance unless you force a higher dose(i.e. you try to get high of it which wont work but will raise your tolerance).
2. It isn't sedating, maybe calming but rather than making you tired it can motivate and thus you could say in a way it energizes(not like stimulants).
3. It's very long acting.
4. It isn't as hard to discontinue as full agonists.
I guess theres a lot more to say but this is all that springs to mind at the moment.
Posted by barbaracat on April 10, 2005, at 15:49:12
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me, posted by reefer on April 10, 2005, at 15:27:24
Thanks for the info, Reefer. I plan to take 1/4 8 mg pill sublingually. Snorting it just reminds me too much of my meth days which I'd rather forget, and does nothing good for the sinuses.
> I buy 8 mg sublingual tablets from opiate addicts, 7 pills go for $100. I then proceed to crush them up in a zip bag to a fine powder. I insufflate(snort) it instead of taking it sublingually(under the tounge) because the effect is felt faster this makes it much easier to dose properly. By now i know by eye how much i should take to make it 1 mg/day(divided in 3 doses). I guess you figured it out already but this makes 1 pill last me a week. So it's about $15 a week which i consider is a very low price to pay for the very high effectivity on anxiety and depression this drug has. I'll also explain why i think it's so much better than the other full opiod agonist drugs.
>
> 1. It doesn't cause tolerance unless you force a higher dose(i.e. you try to get high of it which wont work but will raise your tolerance).
>
> 2. It isn't sedating, maybe calming but rather than making you tired it can motivate and thus you could say in a way it energizes(not like stimulants).
>
> 3. It's very long acting.
>
> 4. It isn't as hard to discontinue as full agonists.
>
> I guess theres a lot more to say but this is all that springs to mind at the moment.
This is the end of the thread.
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