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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Spriggy on February 12, 2005, at 23:00:41
I blacked out again today- this time i hit my head pretty badly (blood all over) and hurt my wrist.
I spent the evening in Urgent Care and they believe I need to see a neurologist and have a CT scan done. They will be doing that next week.
Has anyone else experienced any of these kind of side effects coming off of medication?
I am soooo tired of this. I am in such a mental fog that I don't feel real. I feel like I'm just existing anymore.
I look at my kids' and feel so guilty because I can't even enjoy them and yet I long to so badly. I can't enjoy life at all at this point.
I don't want to live but am scared to die.
So what to do?
Posted by HappyGirl on February 12, 2005, at 23:56:47
In reply to CAT scan and neurologist, posted by Spriggy on February 12, 2005, at 23:00:41
Hi:
VERY sorry to read your current/up-to-date situation, ....having spent in the evening at Urgent Care.Regarding a Nurologist, ... it sounds to me like the doc. in the Urgent care suspected you of having 'seizure problem,' not because of the WB. Somewhere on the Internet, some of Bp have 'dual-dx,' Bp with Seizure/milder form of Epilepsy. From what I know about this disorder, I NEVER read/heard the Seizure started after the discontinuation of any psycho.-med.
Hopefully, everything going WELL next week along with finding a proper med. combo.(by a new pdoc.) that alleviates the negative symptoms soon.
H.G.
Posted by ed_uk on February 13, 2005, at 8:09:19
In reply to Re: CAT scan and neurologist, posted by HappyGirl on February 12, 2005, at 23:56:47
Hi,
I'm sorry to hear about your ordeal. Did you ever 'black out' before you first took any psychiatric medication?
Will you be having an EEG?
Ed.
Posted by Spriggy on February 13, 2005, at 12:15:51
In reply to Re: CAT scan and neurologist, posted by ed_uk on February 13, 2005, at 8:09:19
No, I have never blacked out before.. I felt a little dizzy a few times ON the meds but never blacked out until after they were discontinued.Yes, I do believe they said EEG as well.
I don't know what else to think but this is all related to the meds messing up my brain chemistry.
I never dealt with ANY of this stuff until after being put on the medication.
Is it possible it has caused some permenant damage or will it just take time for my chemistry to get back in place?
I am so clueless anymore.
Posted by ed_uk on February 13, 2005, at 12:47:01
In reply to Re: CAT scan and neurologist, posted by Spriggy on February 13, 2005, at 12:15:51
Hi,
>I don't know what else to think but this is all related to the meds messing up my brain chemistry.
>I never dealt with ANY of this stuff until after being put on the medication.What problems did you have before you took your first psych drug? Presumably you had some psych symptoms for you to be prescribed a medication in the first place. What symptoms did you have? I think you should consider not taking any psych drugs for several months- if your recent illness was induced by Lexapro you should start to feel better soon. What psych symptoms do you have at the moment? When did you take your last dose of Lexapro?
>I do believe they said EEG as well.
I would imagine that they are looking for signs of epilepsy.
When did you take Wellbutrin? What effects did it have?
Ed.
Posted by Spriggy on February 13, 2005, at 22:43:36
In reply to Re: CAT scan and neurologist » Spriggy, posted by ed_uk on February 13, 2005, at 12:47:01
ed,
I had a panic attack ( a total of 3 my whole life) because my father is dying. I was at the hospital with my dad when I had the attack so they saw me in ER. I had high blood pressure at the time (but I was freaking out over my dad- I never have high blood pressure). So because of that my doctor recommended I try an AD to help me deal with my father's death.I said, "fine." I took Wellbutrin XL for a few days but it gave me a bad headache. I read side effects and discontinued after finding out anxiety was ONE of the side effects listed.
Here's the weird thing; after taking Wellbutrin twice, the day after I stopped it, I went 3 days without any sleep or eating. I could not stop my thoughts from racing.
So I went back to dr. who then put me on Lexapro. I did fine the first few weeks on Lexapro- felt pretty much back to "normal" when WHAM about 2-3 weeks into Lexapro I began totally wiggin' out.
I would go from feeling euphoric to feeling so bizarre (unreal) and then completely and utterly depressed/suicidal. This happened several times through the day until eventually it turned into just the bizarre, head fog/restless feeling and depression.
I stayed on Lexapro for 5 weeks until finally my husband said, " That is it, this medicine is making you nuts." We've been married 7 years and he's never seen me act this way ( I've never seen me act this way!).
So, doctor sent me to a pdoc thinking I was bipolar, and pdoc said, " No bp just having a bad reaction to SSRI's." She had me wean off and I've been off of Lexapro totally for 13 days now.I STILL feel bizarre- as if I am going insane. Can't keep my mind from feeling so restless and agitated but at the same time feel like I'm in a brain fog or coma.
I cry (more like weep) at least three times a day and feel like I want to die.
SO... if this is from the Lexapro, why isn't it going away??? I've been off of it almost 2 weeks now.
My concern is that I will go back to doc and be put on yet another medicine that will wig me out even more.
I am SOOOO at my wit's end here.
Any ideas??
Posted by Maxime on February 13, 2005, at 23:46:03
In reply to CAT scan and neurologist, posted by Spriggy on February 12, 2005, at 23:00:41
((( Spriggy)))
I have blacked out from withdrawal before. I did several times from Adderall XR.
I guess some of us react differently. I had a CAT scan and everything was fine.
Hang in there and keep us posted on everything, okay?
Maxime
> I blacked out again today- this time i hit my head pretty badly (blood all over) and hurt my wrist.
>
> I spent the evening in Urgent Care and they believe I need to see a neurologist and have a CT scan done. They will be doing that next week.
>
> Has anyone else experienced any of these kind of side effects coming off of medication?
>
> I am soooo tired of this. I am in such a mental fog that I don't feel real. I feel like I'm just existing anymore.
>
> I look at my kids' and feel so guilty because I can't even enjoy them and yet I long to so badly. I can't enjoy life at all at this point.
>
> I don't want to live but am scared to die.
>
> So what to do?
>
>
Posted by Maxime on February 13, 2005, at 23:54:18
In reply to Re: CAT scan and neurologist, posted by Spriggy on February 13, 2005, at 22:43:36
Yes. Just say no to drugs for now. I think you would benefit more from therapy at this point if your father's illness was the catalyst to your panic attacks. Grrrr. I am so angry at that doctor who put you on meds right away.
Ask for help. See a social worker. No more meds for now. Get as much sleep as possible and eat as well as you can.
I'm sorry about your father. I had to go through the same thing and it's hell. My thoughts are with you.
Maxime
> ed,
> I had a panic attack ( a total of 3 my whole life) because my father is dying. I was at the hospital with my dad when I had the attack so they saw me in ER. I had high blood pressure at the time (but I was freaking out over my dad- I never have high blood pressure). So because of that my doctor recommended I try an AD to help me deal with my father's death.
>
> I said, "fine." I took Wellbutrin XL for a few days but it gave me a bad headache. I read side effects and discontinued after finding out anxiety was ONE of the side effects listed.
>
> Here's the weird thing; after taking Wellbutrin twice, the day after I stopped it, I went 3 days without any sleep or eating. I could not stop my thoughts from racing.
>
> So I went back to dr. who then put me on Lexapro. I did fine the first few weeks on Lexapro- felt pretty much back to "normal" when WHAM about 2-3 weeks into Lexapro I began totally wiggin' out.
> I would go from feeling euphoric to feeling so bizarre (unreal) and then completely and utterly depressed/suicidal. This happened several times through the day until eventually it turned into just the bizarre, head fog/restless feeling and depression.
> I stayed on Lexapro for 5 weeks until finally my husband said, " That is it, this medicine is making you nuts." We've been married 7 years and he's never seen me act this way ( I've never seen me act this way!).
> So, doctor sent me to a pdoc thinking I was bipolar, and pdoc said, " No bp just having a bad reaction to SSRI's." She had me wean off and I've been off of Lexapro totally for 13 days now.
>
> I STILL feel bizarre- as if I am going insane. Can't keep my mind from feeling so restless and agitated but at the same time feel like I'm in a brain fog or coma.
>
> I cry (more like weep) at least three times a day and feel like I want to die.
>
> SO... if this is from the Lexapro, why isn't it going away??? I've been off of it almost 2 weeks now.
>
> My concern is that I will go back to doc and be put on yet another medicine that will wig me out even more.
>
> I am SOOOO at my wit's end here.
>
> Any ideas??
Posted by ed_uk on February 14, 2005, at 8:52:52
In reply to Re: CAT scan and neurologist, posted by Spriggy on February 13, 2005, at 22:43:36
Hi Spriggy,
>Here's the weird thing; after taking Wellbutrin twice, the day after I stopped it, I went 3 days without any sleep or eating. I could not stop my thoughts from racing.
Did you have these symptoms while you were still taking the Wellbutrin or only after you stopped? These symptoms do sound like mania to me but I can't be sure.
Did you feel excited, elated, energetic or euphoric? Were you very talkative?
Did you go without sleep because you didn't actually feel the need to sleep or was it more a case of desperately wanting to sleep but not being able to?
Please can you describe what you mean when you say your thoughts were racing? The reason that I ask is because different people mean different things when they use the term 'racing thoughts'.
Here is a link to a definition of the type of racing thoughts that can occur when someone is manic..........
http://bipolar.about.com/cs/faqs/f/faq_racethought.htmDoes this sound at all familiar?
Perhaps the neurologist will be able to explain the cause of your symptoms. An abnormal EEG might suggest epilepsy, which would explain your black-outs. I don't know whether your black-outs were related to Lexapro, did you have any black-outs while you were taking Lex or only after you stopped?
Like Scott (SLS) said, people with a family history of bipolar disorder are at increased risk of experiencing mania in response to antidepressants. If you stay away from antidepressants, it is possible that you may never experience a similar episode again.
>doctor sent me to a pdoc thinking I was bipolar, and pdoc said, " No bp just having a bad reaction to SSRI's
People who experience mania-like reactions to ADs are at increased risk of having spontaneous manic episodes in the future, it's not inevitable though by any means and so many pdocs feel that bipolar disorder shouldn't be diagnosed unless a person has experienced at least one spontaneous manic or mixed episode. (spontaneous = not in response to medication).
>I would go from feeling euphoric to feeling so bizarre (unreal) and then completely and utterly depressed/suicidal. This happened several times through the day until eventually it turned into just the bizarre, head fog/restless feeling and depression.
This sounds like a mixed episode to me. Please can you describe in a bit more detail how you felt when you were euphoric?
>She had me wean off and I've been off of Lexapro totally for 13 days now.
Do you still have the same symptoms that you had while you were taking the Lexapro or have your symptoms changed since stopping the Lex?
>I'm in a brain fog or coma.
What do you mean by that? Do you mean that you can't think clearly?
>SO... if this is from the Lexapro, why isn't it going away??? I've been off of it almost 2 weeks now.
Lexapro often causes withdrawal symptoms. People who experience manic or mixed states while taking ADs often have similar reactions after stopping an AD. Two weeks isn't very long (although I'm sure it felt like a very long time), your symptoms should improve over the next few weeks. I really hope you feel better soon.
>My concern is that I will go back to doc and be put on yet another medicine that will wig me out even more.
I wouldn't recommend taking any antidepressants in the near future. Your symptoms will almost certainly improve over the next few weeks. If they don't, your doctor might suggest taking an anti-manic drug for a few weeks or months. Since your symptoms were drug-induced, I doubt that your doctor would want you to take an anti-manic drug on a long term basis. Depakote, Tegretol and Trileptal are examples of drugs that your pdoc might suggest. These drugs are also used to treat epilepsy.
Have you ever taken any other psychiatric drugs other than Wellbutrin and Lexapro. I think you mentioned taking Ativan and not liking it.
Have you ever taken Prozac, Paxil, Effexor or Zoloft? If you have, how did they affect you? Were they prescribed for anxiety or depression? Did you have any symptoms similar those that you had while taking Lexapro?
Best Regards,
Ed.PS. Are you feeling any better today? Have you been to the neurologist? Sorry for asking soo many questions, I'm just trying to help :-)
Posted by Bill LL on February 14, 2005, at 9:05:48
In reply to Re: CAT scan and neurologist » Spriggy, posted by Maxime on February 13, 2005, at 23:54:18
Did you feel ok before your father's illness? If you did, then I agree with Maxime. You should probably stop with the antidepressants and try talk therapy with a doctor or clergy.
If you also felt "in a fog" before your father's illness, it sounds like an ADD drug would be reasonable to try. Maybe Ritalin or Adderall.
Posted by Spriggy on February 14, 2005, at 12:12:18
In reply to Re: CAT scan and neurologist, posted by Bill LL on February 14, 2005, at 9:05:48
thank you all so much for your replies. I appreciate all your info and input.
Ed, thank you for asking these questions- maybe it will help me figure this out!
Here are my answers;
>>Did you have these symptoms while you were still taking the Wellbutrin or only after you stopped? <<
* I felt them only after I stopped the Wellbutrin. No, I did not feel excited, or elated. It was more of a super state of complete and utter agitation. I couldn't sit still, I couldn't sleep, I had no appetite. I felt like my body was going haywire and my body would not let me rest no matter how hard I tried. I was up and down all the time and on the move. Could not sit still for the life of me.
>>Did you go without sleep because you didn't actually feel the need to sleep or was it more a case of desperately wanting to sleep but not being able to?<<
* I wanted to sleep but I couldn't. My heart was racing, my mind would not shut down so I could rest. I could only equate it to what I would imagine feeling like on speed (and bad speed at that!).
>>Please can you describe what you mean when you say your thoughts were racing? The reason that I ask is because different people mean different things when they use the term 'racing thoughts'.<<
** The racing thoughts sounded similar to what that site described. I didn't hear music or anything but it was as if my thoughts were on "fast forward" and I couldnt' slow them down to think clearly or to rest. I am actually still experiencing that. I was trying to sleep in this morning but I couldn't stop these racing thoughts enough to really rest.
>>I don't know whether your black-outs were related to Lexapro, did you have any black-outs while you were taking Lex or only after you stopped?<<
** I never blacked out on the Lexapro, only after I quit taking it. But I did just read that "black outs" can be from withdrawals of SSRI's. I am assuming that's what is going on since I've never done this in my entire life before these drugs.
>>This sounds like a mixed episode to me. Please can you describe in a bit more detail how you felt when you were euphoric?<<<* Well, the euphoria was very brief in comparison to the depression,agitation, head weirdness. I still get brief moments of euphoria even now (but I mean very brief, like 5 minutes a day if that).
It feels like I'm almost high on codeine or something. I feel so excited about life, very hopeful about the future. Like, " wow, I can handle anything."
THen within a very short period of time, I crash and burn and can't function again.
.
>>Do you still have the same symptoms that you had while you were taking the Lexapro or have your symptoms changed since stopping the Lex?<<
** Yes, I am still feeling this same way. I thought I would be better by now but I am getting so frustrated with each passing day.
>>What do you mean by brain fog? Do you mean that you can't think clearly?<<
** Well, it's so hard to explain. I feel as if part of my brain has shut down on me. I feel very unreal much of the time, like I'm not really existing or like I'm watching all this through a dream. It's bizarre and scarey.
.
>>Have you ever taken any other psychiatric drugs other than Wellbutrin and Lexapro. I think you mentioned taking Ativan and not liking it. <<**Yes, while I was in the hospital with my dad having my panic attack, they gave me 1 mg. Ativan in the ER. I don't know if it was just too high a dose or what ( I'm petite female), but about 10 minutes after taking it, on my way driving home, I was wigging out soooo badly, I tried jumping out of my car. My husband had to turn on the child lock to keep me inside the car. I couldn't feel my legs, I felt like I couldn't swallow, and I totally freaked out until it eventually just knocked me out and I slept until the next day.
>>Have you ever taken Prozac, Paxil, Effexor or Zoloft? If you have, how did they affect you? Were they prescribed for anxiety or depression? Did you have any symptoms similar those that you had while taking Lexapro?<<
** I took Paxil for my panic attack I had last year, I took it for 2 weeks- felt like a total zombie and quit taking it. I didn't like how it made me feel either but it didn't wig me out. It just made me feel like I was living in a land of complete nothingness. No joy, no sadness, no nothing.
>> Are you feeling any better today? Have you been to the neurologist? Sorry for asking soo many questions, I'm just trying to help :-)<<
Today, well, I just woke up and so far feel very restless still on the inside. My appointment with the doctor is tomorrow.THANK You for asking the questions. I appreciate it very much!! You have been helpful.
Posted by ed_uk on February 15, 2005, at 10:20:21
In reply to Re: CAT scan and neurologist, posted by Spriggy on February 14, 2005, at 12:12:18
Hi Spriggy,
I hope you're feeling a little better today :-)
>I felt them only after I stopped the Wellbutrin.
That suggests that what you experienced was a form of drug-induced manic/mixed state.
>Is there anything that will help treat akathisia? I'm beggining to think that's what I'm feeling.
Akathisia is a type of restlessness than can occur during treatment with drugs such as antipsychotics or SSRIs. Akathisia occasionally occurs after the withdrawal of antipsychotics which have been taken on a long-term basis. I've never heard of akathisia due to SSRI withdrawal though. In some cases, when a perosn is treated with an SSRI such as Lexapro, it can be difficult to distinguish between akathisia and a drug-induced mixed state. I think that what you experienced was probably the latter.
Propranolol (Inderal) is one of the drugs which is used to treat akathisia. It is dangerous for asthmatics. In England, procyclidine (Kemadrin) is widely prescribed to treat akathisia.
>it was as if my thoughts were on "fast forward" and I couldnt' slow them down to think clearly or to rest
They sound like the 'racing thoughts' which are typical of manic or mixed episodes.
>I was wigging out soooo badly, I tried jumping out of my car.
Why did you try to jump out of the car? It sounds like you had a 'paradoxical reaction' to the Ativan.
>My appointment with the doctor is tomorrow.
Please let me know what s/he says, especially about the black outs.
Best Regards,
Ed.
Posted by Spriggy on February 15, 2005, at 16:52:34
In reply to Re: CAT scan and neurologist » Spriggy, posted by ed_uk on February 15, 2005, at 10:20:21
Well I had my cat scan today but won't know anything for a few more days.
Doctor also wants to do an echo on my heart this Friday and have me wear a 24 hour heart monitor. Not sure what that's for or about.She basically seems to want rule out anything "physical" causing this.
She said it could just be "depression or anxiety" but with the blacking out spells, she has some other concerns to rule out first.
She did say some people weird out SSRI's but I should start feeling better if it was simply due to meds in the next week.
She wanted to start me on Cymbalta but I said, " Uh huh" for now.
I want to see if I can regain any normalcy in the next week before I try any other drug.
So Ed, as far as wanting to jump out of the car on the Ativan. I don't know.. I just totally flipped out. For some reason I was convinced I was dying and became completely hysterical, illogical until I zonked out.
I freaked my poor husband out. I've been married for 7 years and he keeps saying, " You have never done this stuff before so I am convinced it's medication."
Maybe he's right. I guess only time can tell.
If I'm not better soon, I will have no choice but to try other meds as I am being a complete failure as a mom and wife right now.
I will keep you posted. Thanks for thinking of me.
Posted by ed_uk on February 16, 2005, at 7:58:23
In reply to APPT update, posted by Spriggy on February 15, 2005, at 16:52:34
Hi!
>She wanted to start me on Cymbalta.
I wouldn't take it if I were you, a mixed episode would be a likely result.
>I will keep you posted.
Please do :-)
Ed.
Posted by TamaraJ on February 16, 2005, at 20:51:27
In reply to APPT update, posted by Spriggy on February 15, 2005, at 16:52:34
Hi Spriggy,
You mentioned that your doctor is trying to rule physical things, and I was just wondering if he/she has carried out the necessary tests to rule out hypoglycemia (or even diabetes)? As I understand it, hypoglycemia can cause serious problems of both an adrenergic and a neurological nature. Here's a link with some information about symptoms to look for.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypoglycemia#Signs_and_symptoms_of_hypoglycemiaAnyway, I just wanted to put that out there as something to consider (if it hasn't already been considered) FWIW.
My thoughts are with you Spriggy. Take good care of yourself and hang in there as best as you can.
Tamara
This is the end of the thread.
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