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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by CareBear04 on February 7, 2005, at 10:19:41
In reply to Re: OPIATES FOR DEPRESSION?, posted by SadDoggie on February 6, 2005, at 4:03:27
hi, no disrespect at all intended. just wondering-- do most of you experience a "high" from opiates? i've heard of this happening with some people, but i've never had a high or a good feeling; more like a numb feeling of being pushed down.
Posted by CareBear04 on February 7, 2005, at 10:27:02
In reply to Re: OPIATES FOR DEPRESSION?, posted by tygereyes on February 6, 2005, at 8:44:07
please listen to this last poster! i'd blocked it out, but i too lost a close friend from a combination of these drugs. my close friend was under the care f a psychiatrist. i never figured out whether he was recovering from heroin (i didn't know about this possibility but it could be) or prescription painkillers (which he was pretty open about.) he died suddenly at the age of 22 from a mixture of methadone and xanax. i won't go into the sadness of it all, but he was talented and spirited, and when i remember what happened, i really want off my percocet and all my benzos and downers. i don't think he meant to die that night, but i think he was messing with high doses and flirting with danger, and he never woke up. please be safe.
Posted by medhed on February 7, 2005, at 11:27:16
In reply to Re: OPIATES FOR DEPRESSION? » tygereyes, posted by CareBear04 on February 7, 2005, at 10:27:02
Yes, you should never mix narcotics with benzos unless under a Docs close supervision. Benzos increase the strength of opiates and opiates increase the strength of benzos, making a powerful cocktail.
I notice that it is most people's belief that if you are taking narcotics you cannot control yourself or be responsible for your own health. I've found that you hear way more negative stories about uses of drugs compared to the people with positive experiences because of the social stigmas attached, nobody enjoying narcotics is going to advertise it in the mainstream. But if you look at the numbers, how many people are buying drugs? And how many are repeat customers? Somebody must be enjoying themselves...In the news, in the paper, in the neighborhood, society loves tragedy. Some people can't drive 55, they just have to push the limit. So you hear about the guy who ODed because he did not reasearch what he was taking or just didn't care, and while he was at it he invites a freind, now you have page 2 in the newspaper. All his freinds and family say 'drugs are bad', and for some reason the government loves it. (a whole nuther story)
What about this...
Headline, Daily News.
DETAILS ON PAGE 2.
"PHIL JACKSON GETS A SERIOUS BUZZ!!!, PHIL WAS HEARD SAYING, 'THAT WAS SOME GOOD SH*T.'"I don't think so.
Maybe in 'HIGH TIMES'
Posted by ed_uk on February 7, 2005, at 11:33:09
In reply to Re: OPIATES FOR DEPRESSION? » lars1, posted by medhed on February 6, 2005, at 5:34:08
Hi medhed!
Do you have a 'favourite' recreational drug? MDMA? LSD? Meth?
Which is your favourite opioid? Hydromorphone? Oxycodone?
Ed.
Posted by medhed on February 7, 2005, at 11:59:15
In reply to Recreational Drugs » medhed, posted by ed_uk on February 7, 2005, at 11:33:09
> Hi medhed!
>
> Do you have a 'favourite' recreational drug? MDMA? LSD? Meth?
>
> Which is your favourite opioid? Hydromorphone? Oxycodone?
>
> Ed.Hi Ed, I've read some interesting posts of yours.
Recreational, I would put marijuana but it's also a med for me. I really enjoy barbituates like seconal, nembutal, but they are hard to get, I substitute soma and fiorinal. In the old days it was Tuinal, Quaalude, Doriden, Placydil.
MMDA but I don't do it vey often.My favorite opiate is hydromorphone or fentanyl when I can get it. I like them because they can be introduced into the system a variety of ways easily and because of the strengtht.
I always try to know and respect the drugs I take, even recreationally.
Except for pcsyc meds-I'm always trying to trust the doc and he keeps screwing me. I'm finally trying to be proactive in my treatment and they don't like it... go figure, sometimes I feel like I work for them!
Posted by ed_uk on February 7, 2005, at 12:08:18
In reply to OPIATES FOR DEPRESSION??? » ed_uk, posted by medhed on February 7, 2005, at 11:59:15
Hi!
>I've read some interesting posts of yours.
Hey Thanks :-)
> I really enjoy barbituates like seconal, nembutal, but they are hard to get, I substitute soma and fiorinal. In the old days it was Tuinal, Quaalude, Doriden, Placydil.
Don't you find barbiturates a bit 'boring'?! If never taken one btw.
What effect does Quaalude have on you? Is it your favourite sedative to use recreationally?
Ed.
Posted by medhed on February 7, 2005, at 13:22:18
In reply to Re: OPIATES FOR DEPRESSION??? » medhed, posted by ed_uk on February 7, 2005, at 12:08:18
They don't make (LEMMON< RORER) Quaaludes anymore in the USA and there is no substitute. I think the equivalent in the UK is Mandrax but I'm not sure, Quaalude was very popular in the 70s and 80s. It was a very strong 'hyonotic' that had prosexual side effects. The generic name was something like Methaquaalone (not sure of spelling) They were affectionately nicknamed ludes on the street.
I am actually energized by barbituates. Kind of like some good scotch or some GHB. I don't like blackouts though, occasionally I'll blackout or fall. They are highly addictive and serious withdrawl can cause death, but if you watch your intake I don't see any problem except you might embarass yourself like a drunk! I think alot of people just knock out on this med, snore their *ss off. We used to call them Gorilla Bisquits in NYC.What is btw?
Posted by paulbwell on February 7, 2005, at 15:09:49
In reply to OPIATES FOR DEPRESSION? » paulbwell, posted by medhed on February 7, 2005, at 6:27:25
> > > poppies.org is also informative.
> >
> > Hi ya,
> >
> > You mentioned you having taken
> > -Desoxyn
> > -Dexedrine
> > -Ritalin
> >
> > I take Rit for ADHD,
> >
> > what differences did you find with these meds in say?
> >
> > -duration action
> > -cerebral stimulation vs somatic stimulation
> > -different areas of effectiveness?
> >
> > much appreciated,
> >
> > Paul
>
> Desoxyn was the strongest, lasted about 8-12 hrs., and tended to be less beneficial for focus.
> It was more body than brain. I never had any experience that compares to the meth addicts I read about as far as psycosis, behavior and inpulse problems. Not my first choice as an ADD med.
>
> Ritalin/Concerta made me sleepy, spaced, and appathetic. For the first hour I would feel increased motor and brain activity, within 2hrs. I would feel nauseus, dizzy, irritable, kind of like I was always withdrawling. Roller Coaster.
>
> Dexedrine worked best for me for many years. Good focus, lasted well till the next dose, tolerance did not seem to be a problem. Dexedrine spanules were obviously better for length of duration.
>
> Adderal was the best one for me. I feel this mix of amphetamine is the mildest, best for focus, easier to tolerate in the longterm. And XR lasts me all day at the lowest doses, higher doses tend to last too long and interfere with my sleep. They didn't make this certain combo of drugs when I was younger, I took Dextrostat for a long time.
>
> Now I take adderal with frequent drug vacations. I don't feel amphetamine works well in the long term without cognitive therapy. It's best to be used during tough times in therapy, work, and other life experieces that do require focus.
>
> I will be trying Provigil.--------------------------------------------------
Thanks for you reply,
You sound like you have been around a while, some of the meds you have mentioned have been discontinued for many years,
I'm assuming you took Desoxyn-(Guaduamets)(SR)5mg? 10mg? 15mg?
discontinued 5 years ago-Abbott Labs., strange you said that you found it to be more somatic vs cerebral, in action-most say the opposite.The only Desoxyn available now are 5mg IR tabs, which my friend takes for sever Narcolepsy (45+ years!)
- 4x5mg IR tabs Q.I.D 80mgs!!Ritalin often makes me larthergic too.
I wonder if Dex is smoother-less up/down, most say so.
Thanks again.
Cheers
Posted by Impermanence on February 7, 2005, at 15:16:52
In reply to Re: OPIATES FOR DEPRESSION??? » ed_uk, posted by medhed on February 7, 2005, at 13:22:18
Btw = By the way.
Thanks for the links, I've found many other sites also, theres a wealth of information on the subject out there.
I diden't realize just how simple it was to extract morphine from opium and turn morphine into heroin, if the duller masses only knew!!!
Theres fascinating history on opium at opioids.com, it's a great site.
Well it looks like I'll be in for a nice "itchy" few years, by that I mean I'm going to start sleeping on fiber glass because I'd never grow opium really, that would be illegal. Society says I'm not aloud to self medicate and enjoy Gods natural medicines, and society must be right, after all theres hardly any problems in the world!!
"I'll die young, but it's like kissing God"
Lenny Bruce
Posted by CareBear04 on February 7, 2005, at 16:41:24
In reply to MEDHED?, posted by paulbwell on February 7, 2005, at 15:09:49
what is a standard dose of desoxyn? if i take 50-60mg a day of adderall, what is the equivalence in desoxyn? i'd like to try it, but i think my pdoc probably hasn't heard of it or is probably scared of it. also, she wouldn't want to give me a humongous dose of it. i hear desoxyn comes only in 5mg pills now?
Posted by medhed on February 7, 2005, at 16:55:57
In reply to Re: OPIATES FOR DEPRESSION??? » medhed, posted by Impermanence on February 7, 2005, at 15:16:52
A great book full of info is "Opium for the Masses" by Jim Hogshire. A great how to, who, and why book, you will not need any more reading on the subject. Jim, who wrote the book got into tons of trouble in the US for writing this book and is now in hiding.
Posted by medhed on February 7, 2005, at 17:15:28
In reply to Re: MEDHED? » paulbwell, posted by CareBear04 on February 7, 2005, at 16:41:24
I haven't been prescribed Desoxyn for a long time. A previous poster says they've changed some so I would be irresponsible to comment on dosages. I found after many years of stimulant use for ADD that Dexidrine works well, but the mix in Adderall was the smoothest and most helpful to me. Desoxyn was not very good for MY ADD but everybody's different, and I seem to be very different when it comes to ups and downs... stims mellow me and the downers activate me.
Good luck getting your doc to prescribe Desoxyn, which is Methamphetamine, all the irresponsible abuse has once again drawn negative attention to a good drug. The Drug enforcers are afraid we might get high... now we wouldn't want that.
Posted by tygereyes on February 7, 2005, at 17:26:17
In reply to Re: OPIATES FOR DEPRESSION? » tygereyes, posted by medhed on February 6, 2005, at 13:36:02
I don't think that drug addiction is a disease, either. And I believe that some people can use in moderation; I just know from experience that I can't.
All I was saying was that if you are using these recreational drugs, psychiatric medication WILL NOT work and you might as well stop wasting your money.
And by the way, the OxyContin overdose occurred because I was using it intravenously. I was shooting it.
Thanks for berating me, though. Really.
> If you decide to use drugs again I hope you will do some research first and try to control yourself. To OD on Oxycontin you either had no idea what you were doing or were in a self destruct abuse mode. I consider abuse or addiction to be a moral or behavioral choice of the abuser. NOT A DISEASE. Dealt with cognitively, it can be controlled by choice, therefore total abstainence is not necessary.
> Thank you for your opinion.
Posted by paulbwell on February 7, 2005, at 17:34:25
In reply to Re: MEDHED? » paulbwell, posted by CareBear04 on February 7, 2005, at 16:41:24
> what is a standard dose of desoxyn? if i take 50-60mg a day of adderall, what is the equivalence in desoxyn? i'd like to try it, but i think my pdoc probably hasn't heard of it or is probably scared of it. also, she wouldn't want to give me a humongous dose of it. i hear desoxyn comes only in 5mg pills now?
Hi Care,
"I would like to try it"--you and many others
"I think my Psydoc is probably scared of it"--Ya think?-prescribing this last choice Med pratically sends red flags up at the FDA.
A highish, Standard Rx, of Desoxyn is 20-25mgs day, althought some Narcoleptics took 2-3 15mg SR tabs for years.
80mgs-which my friend takes, (he's 61,had Narcolepsy since 1957)is the highest 'legally' prescribed dose I have ever read of.
His monthly medication bill is huge.
Posted by medhed on February 7, 2005, at 18:20:45
In reply to Re: OPIATES FOR DEPRESSION?, posted by tygereyes on February 7, 2005, at 17:26:17
I'm sorry, I thought I was berated.
Good Luck in your recovery.
Posted by medhed on February 7, 2005, at 18:27:39
In reply to CAREBEAR04, posted by paulbwell on February 7, 2005, at 17:34:25
He can always make his own...
Desoxyn is cheap at my pharmacy.
Where are you?
Posted by paulbwell on February 7, 2005, at 19:27:01
In reply to Re: CAREBEAR04 » paulbwell, posted by medhed on February 7, 2005, at 18:27:39
> He can always make his own...
>
> Desoxyn is cheap at my pharmacy.
> Where are you?
Hi Ya Med,This gentleman is not the sort of chap to "make his own" Methylamphetamine, for his long standing medical condition.
He told me last year he pays $2-3US for each of his 16 daily 5mg Desoxyn,
He used to take 5 15mg SR Graduamets, all in the morning--which cost 5c ech in 1957, when he started it, then rose to $6 each by 1999 (when they were discontinued).I'v heard FINALLY, since its intro onto the market (1944) that there is a generic-as you say, so maybe he will be able to cut his huge med bill.
after 45+ years of daily Pharmaceutical methylamphetamine use, he sleeps constantly when off it.
Posted by CareBear04 on February 7, 2005, at 19:39:11
In reply to Re: MEDHED? » CareBear04, posted by medhed on February 7, 2005, at 17:15:28
thanks medhed. speaking of the drug enforcement agenca people, if they have any idea what they're doing, they should have my drs under close surveillance. i've been on almost every controlled substance in the book, and not only that, the scripts have come at most two weeks apart. i could be bankrolling an education or something. hahaha
Posted by CareBear04 on February 7, 2005, at 19:42:32
In reply to Re: CAREBEAR04 » paulbwell, posted by medhed on February 7, 2005, at 18:27:39
umm... you're gonna tell me how to synthesize meth? seriously, i would WELCOME it!
i'm in the pacific northwest. where are you? if you want to send me a how-do guide, i'm receptive. i'm pretty good at chem, even biochem.
Posted by jerrympls on February 7, 2005, at 22:57:27
In reply to OPIATES FOR DEPRESSION?, posted by medhed on February 5, 2005, at 10:08:08
I am currently being treated with opiates for my treatment resistant depression. I came out of the closet to my doctor about how opiates have helped my depression in the past and after showing him some research he agreed to an opiate trial.
I've been on Oxycontin 10mg for a month now. It's been wonderful - the most stable and close to "normal" that I have been in years. It's not a miracle cure - but it's better than nothing.
We are going to try a month on hydrocodone to compare the two. I'm so very fortunate to have a doctor willing to try opiates. Yes, I am cautious of tolerance and dependance. However, I do not get any sort of "high" from these meds nor do I "hunger" for them. I'm already dependent on the other depression meds I'm taking - so how can being dependent on an opiate be any different? That's how I look at it anyway.
Tomorrow I start hydrocodone 5mg 4x daily. We found a preparation without acetaminophen called HYCODAN. Too bad there isn't a long acting form of hydrocodone.
At any rate, there are doctors out there who know the benefits of the use of opiates for treatment resistant depression and who will use them. Unfortunately they are few and far between. My adivce is to seek out a psychiatrist at a teaching hospital at a large research university.
Good luck...
Jerry
Posted by medhed on February 7, 2005, at 23:46:19
In reply to Re: OPIATES FOR DEPRESSION? » medhed, posted by jerrympls on February 7, 2005, at 22:57:27
Yes, I heard about a study where 20mg. of morphine was given just once a week for treatment of depression, I'm not sure of the details.
I like Hycodan, there is a Hycodan syrup for coughs... Hycodan makes your skin numb.
I don't have any problem getting opiates on my own without a doctor. I'm just fine not having a narcophobic doctor looking over my shoulder. I find doctors to be difficult, ecspecially about controlled substances.And I don't need anymore names on my list...
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 8, 2005, at 2:00:49
In reply to Re: CAREBEAR04 » medhed, posted by CareBear04 on February 7, 2005, at 19:42:32
> umm... you're gonna tell me how to synthesize meth? seriously, i would WELCOME it!
Please don't ask, or explain, how to produce medication yourself.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, please see the FAQ:http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#illegal
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by lars1 on February 8, 2005, at 6:27:30
In reply to Re: OPIATES FOR DEPRESSION?, posted by tygereyes on February 7, 2005, at 17:26:17
> All I was saying was that if you are using these recreational drugs, psychiatric medication WILL NOT work
Not only that, but in some cases there is the potential for toxic and dangerous interactions (serotonin syndrome among other things), particularly with the heavy-duty meds often used for treatment-resistant depression.
Lars
Posted by ed_uk on February 8, 2005, at 9:53:05
In reply to Re: OPIATES FOR DEPRESSION??? » ed_uk, posted by medhed on February 7, 2005, at 13:22:18
Hi Medhed!!
>I think the equivalent in the UK is Mandrax but I'm not sure....
Mandrax hasn't been marketed in the UK for a LONG time! Mandrax contained methaqualone and diphenhydramine. A medication containing the same two ingredients was available in Switzerland until recently, I'm not sure whether it's still available. The brand name was Toquilone compositum.
Ed.
Posted by medhed on February 8, 2005, at 13:13:42
In reply to Re: Methaqualone » medhed, posted by ed_uk on February 8, 2005, at 9:53:05
Right, Quaalude did not contain Diphenhydromine and probally a higher dose of methaqualone than Mandrax. Ludes were a very large white tablet,
2 brands, one Lemmon 714, the other Rorer 714. They are bootlegged to this day in Mexico to look like the original discontinued brand, bootlegs contain Diazepam and Phenobarbital and are very disappointing.
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