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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 19 to 43 of 52. Go back in thread:
Posted by dancingstar on January 26, 2005, at 0:40:39
In reply to Re: Some Positive Studies of Effexor XR~, posted by FaithT on January 26, 2005, at 0:19:58
The reason that I don't find the 12-week studies to be as valuable as, for example, studies that last for six months or one year is because many of the problems that people have with Effexor don't tend to show in the first few months.
Some, of course, do. Those people know that they are having trouble with the drug and hopefully stop taking it. Other people don't develop problems until they have been taking Effexor for six months and longer, which is why those of us that say that the problems are slow and silent are so concerned. Mostly people can't see or feel the problems as they happen.
For some reason it has been harder for me to locate studies lasting longer than 12 weeks.
I haven't personally seen data for people taking Effexor over one year. Most interesting of all would be the data for two and three years because I believe that is the highest period so far of off-lable use of Effexor.
Posted by not2late4u on January 26, 2005, at 0:48:00
In reply to Re: Long Term Effexor XR Usage...Scott~, posted by not2late4u on January 26, 2005, at 0:40:06
Jeez I just re-read my post, it sure didnt come out right! It doesnt sound like breaking news that there are possible side effects and withdraw, because it was published way back in 1995, thats what I meant....sorry, Im going to fast here! Renee
Posted by dancingstar on January 26, 2005, at 0:49:51
In reply to Re: A POSITIVE EFFEXOR XR EXPERIENCE~, posted by SLS on January 25, 2005, at 10:00:18
The British Journal of Psychiatry (2001) 178: 234-241
© 2001 The Royal College of PsychiatristsRemission rates during treatment with venlafaxine or selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors
MICHAEL E. THASE, MD
University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, Western Psychiatric Institute and Clinic, Pittsburgh, PAA. RICHARD ENTSUAH, PhD and RICHARD L. RUDOLPH, MD
Clinical Research and Development, Wyeth-Ayerst Research, Philadelphia, PA, USA
Correspondence: Michael E. Thase, Professor of Psychiatry, University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, Western Psychiatric Institute and Clinic, 3811 O'Hara Street, Pittsburgh, PA 15213-2593, USA
Declaration of interest M.E.T. is a paid consultant to Wyeth-Ayerst Laboratories, the employer of A.R.E. and R.L.R.
Hmmm...Let me see if I can read this properly: "DECLARATION OF INTEREST M.E.T. IS A PAID CONSULTANT TO WYETH-AYEST LABORATORIES, THE EMPLOYER OF A.R.E. AND R.L.R."
Did I get that all right?
Posted by not2late4u on January 26, 2005, at 1:41:26
In reply to Re: A POSITIVE EFFEXOR XR EXPERIENCE~, posted by Aaron Uyanik on January 25, 2005, at 5:40:40
Aaron, you asked about withdrawing from 75 mg. Again, when you and/or your doc thinks it the right time. Ask his advise but remember what you 've read here too. There is alot of good information. When I got to the 75mg, I stayed at that dose until I felt stable, then I went to 37.5 mg until I felt stable. (now you might need to do 37.5 one day then 75mg the next and switch back and forth until you feel stable) Then 37.5 mg until you feel stable. Then what I am doing now is 37.5 every other day. When I feel Im stable, I will be off for 2 days then take 37.5 then off again for 2 days until I feel stable. This is what I am doing, its what is working for me and is what my Psych suggested. Go at your own pace, dont get in a hurry, thats when you could find yourself sick. Keep up with my thread as I continue to post my progress. And you'll read that others like Faith that were successful. Keep in mind, I am taking Klonopin to help along the process. YOu may or may not need any other medication to help you, your discussion with your doc can help you determine that. It may be easier to withdraw from a lower dose too. But it depends on your body chemistry and how long you've been on it too, I would suppose. Either way, take it slow, listen to your body and you know, pray and thank God for his help. God bless and good night. Renee. p.s. let us know how you are doing.....
Posted by not2late4u on January 26, 2005, at 1:45:55
In reply to Re: A POSITIVE EFFEXOR XR EXPERIENCE~, posted by SLS on January 25, 2005, at 10:00:18
Scott, If i didnt already reply to you, I think your great. keep posting, we need your help. Im still figuring out how to maneuver amongst all this babble, so if this was duplicated, sorry! Renee
Posted by dancingstar on January 26, 2005, at 2:51:56
In reply to Re: A POSITIVE EFFEXOR XR EXPERIENCE~, posted by not2late4u on January 26, 2005, at 1:45:55
Well, I just love links, love to read them, love to post them for you all to read them, too, but I must be tired cause I had one heck of a time trying to post the information that I wanted you to see...so I'll have to post the whole darn site, and you can just read through it at your leisure.
The thing that I find really interesting is that -- and again, it's about 12:40 a.m., and I'm a little wiped, no more chronic fatigue for this little chicky -- but anyway, please notice that the only positive articles or research about EffexorXR seems to be written or produced or done or funded by Wyeth-Ayerst. Now, like I say, I'm tired; so surely I must be wrong about this. Truly, though, on this whole big important website -- well, really there were only three pages devoted to the subject -- it looked like there was research that said that it was possible that Effexor(XR) could be okay but that further testing was necessary to find out cause they weren't really sure or, in other words, the jury was out...and it looked like the positive, just the simply positive stuff was put out only by Wyeth.
Someone show me where I am reading this wrong because I think I must wrong about this one. Surely, there has to be one positive conclusive independent study that I missed. They say right in the body of each study who it was sponsored by, and I know it must be just cause I'm wiped that I missed it.
Posted by SLS on January 26, 2005, at 7:01:03
In reply to Re: Long Term Effexor XR Usage...Scott~, posted by dancingstar on January 25, 2005, at 22:16:11
> I may not be terribly educated, but I sure do understand this link:
>
> http://www.crazymeds.org/effexor.htmlI am not terribly educated either. I hope you don't hold that against me. The cognitive impairments produced by depression forced me to discontinue college before graduating. Since then, depression has pretty much caused me to discontinue life.
As it says somewhere on this website, it is not a good idea to necessarily believe everything you see on the Internet. While much of what the site you cited is true, the facts are cleverly organized and not complete. The agenda of the authors is obvious. They wish to portray psychotropic drugs as being scourges and unnecessary.
Do you believe that antidepressants are unnecessary?
- Scott
Posted by SLS on January 26, 2005, at 7:15:45
In reply to ...a mere clarification? » SLS, posted by dancingstar on January 26, 2005, at 0:49:51
>
> The British Journal of Psychiatry (2001) 178: 234-241
> © 2001 The Royal College of Psychiatrists
>
> Remission rates during treatment with venlafaxine or selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors
> MICHAEL E. THASE, MD
> University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, Western Psychiatric Institute and Clinic, Pittsburgh, PA
>
> A. RICHARD ENTSUAH, PhD and RICHARD L. RUDOLPH, MD
>
> Clinical Research and Development, Wyeth-Ayerst Research, Philadelphia, PA, USA
>
> Correspondence: Michael E. Thase, Professor of Psychiatry, University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, Western Psychiatric Institute and Clinic, 3811 O'Hara Street, Pittsburgh, PA 15213-2593, USA
>
> Declaration of interest M.E.T. is a paid consultant to Wyeth-Ayerst Laboratories, the employer of A.R.E. and R.L.R.
>
>
> Hmmm...Let me see if I can read this properly: "DECLARATION OF INTEREST M.E.T. IS A PAID CONSULTANT TO WYETH-AYEST LABORATORIES, THE EMPLOYER OF A.R.E. AND R.L.R."
>
>
> Did I get that all right?
Hi.
Good work.I was waiting to see how long it would take you to identify this as a confounding factor in considering the believability of the articles. See, you don't have to be "educated" to be intelligent and continually learning despite the absence of a degree. I hope I'm a good example of that.
The original studies that were used to pool the analases were NOT funded by Wyeth. However, once the results were produced and interpreted showing the superiority of Effexor to the SSRIs, Wyeth quickly took advantage of this by providing the investigators to perform the meta-analasis.
It is a true shame that the most formidable of our clinical researchers no longer remain with universities and government institutions exclusively. Money does talk. So do the numbers in this study.
- Scott
Posted by FaithT on January 26, 2005, at 7:24:27
In reply to Re: Long Term Effexor XR Usage...Scott~ » dancingstar, posted by SLS on January 26, 2005, at 7:01:03
Scott~
Again, thanks for your input and help. I'm not on any kind of a mission here, and I found my way to the Effexor posts at the top of the page, by accident.
Then I found myself frustrated by what I was reading,as it seems there is a constant debate, much like is occuring on this thread. So, Dr. Bob suggested that myself and others with positive experience post away to balance the negative.
Once again, I am not saying that Effexor is without side-effects or withdrawl. I AM saying that is does help people, and not everyone experiences the bad. For some, it is a life saver, such as myself.
Thanks Scott....
Faith~
Posted by SLS on January 26, 2005, at 7:27:46
In reply to Re: A POSITIVE EFFEXOR XR EXPERIENCE~, posted by dancingstar on January 26, 2005, at 2:51:56
Hi.
> but anyway, please notice that the only positive articles or research about EffexorXR seems to be written or produced or done or funded by Wyeth-Ayerst.
This not at all true. How did you come to this conclusion? I hope you are taking into account more medical literature than the single one I supplied in a single post. It is just the single largest multi-center comparison between venlafaxine and SSRIs.
Here's another one (no Wyeth)
- Scott
Posted by Aaron Uyanik on January 26, 2005, at 8:37:08
In reply to Re: A POSITIVE EFFEXOR XR EXPERIENCE~ » dancingstar, posted by SLS on January 26, 2005, at 7:27:46
Dear Renee
Thank you so much for that information its what i have been looking for. You have indeed been a great help an i will keep it in mind for future reference. I also keep you posted in my progress when the time comes for me to taper down. I will have you and others on this post in my prays. I am so glad that there are fine people like yourselves who take there time in order to help others. Again thank you very much and god bless.
P.S Hope you or anyone else will be there to support me when the time finally comes.
Posted by FaithT on January 26, 2005, at 8:40:24
In reply to Re: Long Term Effexor XR Usage...Scott~, posted by not2late4u on January 26, 2005, at 0:40:06
Hi Renee~
Very cool, and thanks for the support and information!!
Hugs, Faith~
Posted by FaithT on January 26, 2005, at 8:43:40
In reply to Re: A POSITIVE EFFEXOR XR EXPERIENCE~, posted by Aaron Uyanik on January 26, 2005, at 8:37:08
Hi Aaron~
Ofcourse we will be there for you. I already went through the withdrawl, although I did choose to go back on Effexor, about 4-5 months later...My own choice, nothing to do with any lingering drug effects.
Please feel free to Babble-Mail me, if you need any help,o.k.?
Hugs, Faith~
Posted by dancingstar on January 26, 2005, at 10:41:41
In reply to Re: A POSITIVE EFFEXOR XR EXPERIENCE~ » dancingstar, posted by SLS on January 26, 2005, at 7:27:46
As it happens, Scott, I am familair with Ms. Gutierrez, who for your information, works with veterans at USC. All she has done in this instance is to summerize literature that has been previously published on Medline in order to reach her conclusions. Unfortunately, she hasn't done her own research when she published this paper; so it is useless garbage as so much of the rest of the material on that site.
Worse yet, she may be responsible for thousands of young men returning from Iraq routinely being given Effexor unnecessarily. I certainly hope that this is not so, but it has been rumoured that our serviceman may routinely receive this drug on return from their tours of duty. That would indeed be a shame.
If you are the same Scott that has taken the drug for nine years and you are taking it with your full knowledge and consent, that is fine for you. But it is not fine for people to be plyed with a drug that they know nothing about that is potentially very harmful.
I am not saying that I do not believe in antidepressants. I am saying that I believe in truth in advertising. I have a real problem with the deception behind what has gone on here.
Posted by dancingstar on January 26, 2005, at 11:06:08
In reply to Re: A POSITIVE EFFEXOR XR EXPERIENCE~ » dancingstar, posted by SLS on January 26, 2005, at 7:27:46
Actually, I went through each of three pages of posts related to Effexor but very briefly. Today I don't have time to do it. They were either summaries of Wyeth's info, in which case were positive, info by Wyeth, or if from independent sources, posted as inconclusive. I believe that I've told you in the past, Scott, in a private email a few months ago, that the jury is truly out on the efficacy of Effexor, though I do believe that it does well in the first six months or so of use. After that period of time, I am not convinced that it continues to be effective. And the side effects that morph could potentially be a problem for many people and have obviously been.
That's why I would truly love to see really good data. I don't think it's out there to be seen by the general public.
C'est ca.
Posted by dancingstar on January 26, 2005, at 11:14:37
In reply to Re: Long Term Effexor XR Usage...Scott~ » dancingstar, posted by SLS on January 26, 2005, at 7:01:03
Actually, I'm not sure that's true about this site. Have you been through the whole thing? Have a good, long look. It's kind of funny when you get to the bottom of it. :-) I really think that they are just trying to provide accurate and honest information.
Since I've been doing the hours and hours of reading that I've done lately, I've run into a lot of things that they might have used as source information. It's quite valid.
Posted by FaithT on January 26, 2005, at 11:49:03
In reply to Re: Long Term Effexor XR Usage...Scott~ » SLS, posted by dancingstar on January 26, 2005, at 11:14:37
I think that 2 1/2 years on Effexor, with follow up bloodwork, blood pressure checks, and monthly psych. evaluations,just about qualifies as a long term independant study. :~) I'm obviosuly not the only one out there. It's just that most other happy Effexor users, are out living, and not on this sight,or posting on the internet.
I can personally attest to the fact that Effexor still continues to work well for me, long after 6 months,and my health continues to be very good.
Faith~
Posted by dancingstar on January 26, 2005, at 11:55:58
In reply to Re: Long Term Effexor XR Usage...Scott~ » SLS, posted by dancingstar on January 26, 2005, at 11:14:37
I would ask to be afforded the same courtesy of not being addressed by those that have requested that of me, even if the wrong name is used.
Posted by dancingstar on January 26, 2005, at 12:01:03
In reply to Re: Long Term Effexor XR Usage, Scott » dancingstar, posted by dancingstar on January 26, 2005, at 11:55:58
only because I am not allowed to reply to any posts directed to me by people that have requested that I not address them personally.
Thank you.
Posted by FaithT on January 26, 2005, at 12:40:09
In reply to Re: So Then Consider ME as A Long Term Study~, posted by FaithT on January 26, 2005, at 11:49:03
This is a general post to all involved in this thread, not addressed to anyone specific...Thanks for taking the time to read it.
Faith~
Posted by SLS on January 26, 2005, at 17:22:43
In reply to Re: A POSITIVE EFFEXOR XR EXPERIENCE~ » SLS, posted by dancingstar on January 26, 2005, at 10:41:41
> As it happens, Scott, I am familair with Ms. Gutierrez, who for your information, works with veterans at USC.
As it happens, I am familiar with a couple of doctors too, and, for your information, I have worked personally with people at the NIMH, NYU, Columbia, Harvard, Emory, and MUSC, to name a few. However, it is not important who I know so much as what I know. I am well-informed. Effexor is a good drug.
> All she has done in this instance is to summarize literature that has been previously published on Medline
Have you performed your own literature searches on Medline in an effort to find the kind of studies you think are relevant? Others have and found enough to have drawn their own conclusions and published them.
I'll try to save you some time by offering this link:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&form=4&term=venlafaxine+blind&dispmax=200
I've done plenty enough for me to recognize the attributes of venlafaxine - both good and bad. I have concluded that it is a good drug. For some, it is the only drug that works.
> Unfortunately, she hasn't done her own research when she published this paper;
Why is this unfortunate? Someone's gotta do it.
> Worse yet, she may be responsible for thousands of young men returning from Iraq routinely being given Effexor unnecessarily.
I don't believe I am in a position to judge the clinical decisions reached for each of these thousands of young people to be able to comment.
> I certainly hope that this is not so, but it has been rumoured that our serviceman may routinely receive this drug on return from their tours of duty.
I'll keep my eye out for evidence of this. That's one heck of an accusation. Rumors?
> If you are the same Scott that has taken the drug for nine years and you are taking it with your full knowledge and consent, that is fine for you.
Excuse me. I doubt you have much of clue who I am. In any event, my identity is not at all relevant her.
> But it is not fine for people to be plyed with a drug that they know nothing about that is potentially very harmful.
Most doctors don't play. It is the job of the clinician to know about these drugs.
> I am not saying that I do not believe in antidepressants. I am saying that I believe in truth in advertising.
Not a bad policy.
> I have a real problem with the deception behind what has gone on here.
I'm not sure what the deception is. Can you be more specific?
Effexor is Effexor, regardless of the motivation behind its discovery and manufacture. I think it is important to judge the drug itself and not the people who advertise it.
- Scott
Posted by dancingstar on January 26, 2005, at 20:55:16
In reply to Re: A POSITIVE EFFEXOR XR EXPERIENCE~ » dancingstar, posted by SLS on January 26, 2005, at 17:22:43
As for your link, Scott, they are worthless if I cannot see the information behind the summaries, and that is all they are, summaries. I am locked out when I go to click on the original studies to see what's up with the data.
As for Ms. Gutierrez, she was asked to help us understand why a few of us were having a hard time with the "discontinuation syndrome," and declined to be of assistance. She was recommended by an associate of hers that knew that she had "studied" Effexor, whatever the heck that is supposed to mean.
As I told my friend, the chemist, Medline isn't the most useful source because it is a biased tool and not apt to give the most accurate and honest information, though he informed me that it is thought to be the highest authority in the medical community. As I showed him more and more of my information, he began to understand why I felt that way. I will not offer the same data to you.
For all any of us know, Scott, anyone posting here, you, me, or the next person -- could work for Wyeth-Ayerst, couldn't we???
As for my specific contentions, I'm afraid that at this point only my lawyers will be able to enlighten you of those, or you will have to do some more of your own research to be sure, but I'm not about to educate you. I'm sure you will find out sooner or later. I'm simply too busy to bother with it all now. I'm moving in the morning and have too much to do to get ready.
Posted by not2late4u on January 26, 2005, at 21:39:39
In reply to Re: A POSITIVE EFFEXOR XR EXPERIENCE~, posted by Aaron Uyanik on January 26, 2005, at 8:37:08
Count me in Aaron. if you babblemail me, I'll give you my personal email address just in case I stop visiting this site when/if you are ready. I wouldnt offer for just anyone, but you are a fellow brother in christ. Renee
Posted by not2late4u on January 26, 2005, at 21:49:35
In reply to Re: A POSITIVE EFFEXOR XR EXPERIENCE~ » dancingstar, posted by SLS on January 26, 2005, at 17:22:43
Oh my dear Scott, how refreshing you are. I really need you here. You appear to me to be very open minded in your knowledge and opinions of Effexor, I truely commend you for your posting. I see you as a strong voice that is needed. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you and God bless, Renee.
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 26, 2005, at 22:05:16
In reply to Re: A POSITIVE EFFEXOR XR EXPERIENCE~ » SLS, posted by dancingstar on January 26, 2005, at 20:55:16
> > Here's another one (no Wyeth)
> > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14512125
>
> she hasn't done her own research when she published this paper; so it is useless garbage as so much of the rest of the material on that site.> As for your link, Scott, they are worthless if I cannot see the information behind the summaries
Please respect the views of others and be sensitive to their feelings.
I've asked you to be civil before, so now I'm going to block you from posting for a week.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
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