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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by eeyorena on January 22, 2005, at 21:36:51
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » dancingstar, posted by not2late4u on January 22, 2005, at 15:00:15
I have been following this thread for awhile. It has been very interesting, as I have been an advocate for depression relief for so very long.
I don't want to withhold depression relief from anyone. I don't think anyone here would ever, ever wish for that.
And I think there is one very important point that is being missed here.
Unlike many other things in life, drug approvals and drug safety are not democratic. Nor should they be.
I have a dear friend who's life improved substantially after she was given a prescription for Vioxx. She went from being in extreme pain to being able to function pretty well. Vioxx has never hurt her as far as we know. But there is a very good chance it may have caused heart attacks, strokes or death for others. I believe that consumers and the FDA were very right in pressuring Merck to withraw Vioxx from the market until further tests could be completed.
Because if one of my parents or someone I love had suffered a heart attack, stroke or even death as a result of Vioxx, I would be completely grief stricken.
The same thing is now happening with Reminyl. The post-market studies on this drug have shown some alarming possibilities. Within a certain period of time, an average of 5 people out of 100 not taking Reminyl pass away. On Reminyl, that number is 15 people out of 100.
But that's still okay, right? Because 90 people aren't possibly having these problems from the drug and might really be benefitting.
Well, no. Not exactly.
Under medical ethics, the medical community has a responsibility to not harm the patient more than they are helping them.
When that harm is possibly irreversible liver damage, heart attack, aneurysm, or death, those things are easier to measure and possibly easier to connect directly with a drug. While it is never easy to withhold treatment from a patient who is suffering--even based upon a risk--it is ethical to pursue and exhaust every other possible treatment if it means that you might be causing the patient further harm.
Sadly, with some meds, it is not always possible to know in advance how risks will affect a patient. And when those risks are extremely hard to measure, especially in the behavioral sciences, it is even harder to predict.
I think that is why Effexor bears much scrutiny. I am sure that it is helping someone somewhere, otherwise it never would have made it onto the market. So, yes, of course it is.
However--and for the those who might suffer or have to (yet again) try another course of treatment I am truly truly sorry and sad--I think enough patients have suffered from this med's withdrawal effects and possible long term effects for it to be withdrawn from the market pending further testing. It is not okay for even 10 people out of 100 to possibly suffer from long term life-disabling effects from any drug.
If it is not withdrawn from the market, I think at the very least that it should be put under investigation with warnings released to the public. That way, patients will know in advance what the risks are and that they should pursue all other treatment options available to them first (there are many--many SSRI's, tricyclics, and MAOI's have been around longer than Effexor).
I've suffered from chronic depression for over 20 years. I know how devestating it can be. I'm also convinced that drug companies are too hasty to take drugs to market because of the possible beneficial effects on stock price and desire to beat out the competition. I know this...because I was a consultant in and around this industry. I have a lot to be thankful for that is directly related to pharamaceutical advancements. But I also am extremely committed to appropriate testing and patient safety.
As always, anyone else's mileage may vary.
Posted by dancingstar on January 22, 2005, at 22:10:51
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by eeyorena on January 22, 2005, at 21:36:51
Thank you. Thank you.
Posted by S. Bartel on January 22, 2005, at 23:40:41
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by eeyorena on January 22, 2005, at 21:36:51
Very well said. Thanks
Sammi
Posted by not2late4u on January 23, 2005, at 1:04:09
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by eeyorena on January 22, 2005, at 21:36:51
You said it well. I believe I've said alot of the same things only in different words.
Posted by not2late4u on January 23, 2005, at 1:16:48
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » dancingstar, posted by Broken on January 22, 2005, at 16:35:35
Broken, thank you and I agree with your response. Also glad have been successful. God Bless, Renee.
Posted by not2late4u on January 23, 2005, at 1:21:13
In reply to Re: please be civil » not2late4u, posted by Dr. Bob on January 22, 2005, at 17:25:03
Bob, didnt intend to make anyone feel accused, it is how I feel. I will not be corresponding directly with dancingstar any longer, shouldnt have any further issues with me. thanks for your insight, Renee.
Posted by winddancer on January 23, 2005, at 1:28:25
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by eeyorena on January 22, 2005, at 21:36:51
I just found this site. Many people speak of the horrid side-effects of Effexor or of the withdrawal. Would someone be willing to share what those side effects are that some people experience.
I went back about 20 or 30 e-mails and didn't find a good description of the side-effects but much comment about how bad they were.
I take 150mg XR. I am experiencing tingling in fingers and tongue and inside my mouth and food doesn't taste like much and don't know if its due to the drug. I was on more meds for anxiety and depression about 4-6 months ago and have gotten off the Neurontin, the Remeron, the Klonapin, and HRT Primpro, happily, but have this sensation and don't know if it's some untreated anxiety or or an effect of the drug. I also have a good bit of body ache that I'm trying to resolve. And I seem to be a bit wired all the time and have trouble staying asleep for more than 2 hrs at a time in the night. I'm 59, post-menopausal. Also have the stress trying to find work to support myself for the past 2-3 years and will be starting a new great job next week. I live alone.
Thanks for any feedback.
Winddancer
Posted by not2late4u on January 23, 2005, at 2:29:08
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » eeyorena, posted by winddancer on January 23, 2005, at 1:28:25
HI, I am a bit afraid to express my opinion, but will because I dont know how to bablemail you my response and I want to help you.
My personal side effects while taking Effexor: for me, lack of motivation existed prior to taking it (was on paxil before and experienced it then too) brain zaps, experienced on both effexor and paxil. Weight gain on paxil, no gain on effexor, just nearly impossible to take it off. Seemed like the higher the dose the more muscle aches/weakness I had, but that could be from lack of magnesium and or my low thyroid, I dont know for sure but maybe a combination of both, but when I went from 150mg to 225mg, it seemed that my muscle weakness increased rapidly, but was it a result from being so lazy and out of shape from no motivation, I dont know! Migraines, especially when exercising or exerting myself. I dont think MY personal effexor side effects where horrible or unbearable, undesirable, yes, but for ME the good outweighed the bad. I am now tapering off because Im ready and I will have a better picture of what was side effects of effexor and what was my low thyroid and nutritional imbalances. I wont be back to this thread, so if you wish to talk to me further, feel free to bablemail me if you can figure it out :) Renee
Posted by dancingstar on January 23, 2005, at 2:38:07
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » eeyorena, posted by winddancer on January 23, 2005, at 1:28:25
Hi Winddancer,
Happy to help :-)
I had a link handy, and then I lost it, never to be able to find it again...don't ya know. Spent the next hour wandering around the internet, got blocked out of the stuff I wanted by yahoo and went in through askjeeves instead, but it brought me right back here, sort of, but a long time ago and differently. Check this link out, I think you might find it very interesting. Don't know quite how I got there. That must be why they call it "surfing" :
http://depression.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.dr%2Dbob.org/tips/split/Antidepressant%
2Ddiscontinua.htmlMore simple information here:
http://www.crazymeds.org/effexor.html
And here is a link that shows that at least in part the basis for prescribing Effexor for hot flashes is based on a mere 12-week study, which does not seem to be long enough to reach realistic conclusions about how it works on our bodies in my opinion:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050104/hl_nm/hot_flashes_dc_1
Those should keep you busy for a while.
Posted by dancingstar on January 23, 2005, at 3:05:19
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » winddancer, posted by dancingstar on January 23, 2005, at 2:38:07
Don't you know I had to go and screw up the link. I'm so sorry! Let me try again.
http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/split/Antidepressant-discontinua.html
Posted by dancingstar on January 23, 2005, at 3:59:33
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » dancingstar, posted by dancingstar on January 23, 2005, at 3:05:19
Here is one more kewl site that I found where it seems as though health professionals and others answer people's questions about antidepressants. I think maybe some of you have already found it, but in case you haven't, it might be helpful to someone.
It appears to me as though the health professionals that are answering the withdrawal questions re Effexor are telling it pretty straight at this point, even online.
Yours for the reading:
Posted by corafree on January 23, 2005, at 12:39:40
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by dancingstar on January 23, 2005, at 3:59:33
Hey all.
Dancingstar, I only see computer jibberish on post? Was that to make a point about manufacturer's, etc., or did it come out wrong on the post?
Have a question for anyone ...
I feel like my anxiety is breaking through the Eff-XR; lately more agoraphobic.
I have anxiety and panic attacks. Think ya' know I'm considered borderline.
My father's death anniversary is coming closer, so it could be that; lady upstairs says smoke from my condo is coming into hers (?!); focus on how this whole borderline thing came about in me and how I shouldn't care(?!) ... those kind of outside factors.
Could I possibly have gotten so used to Eff-XR, that now I am needing more?
Any suggestions sincerely appreciated. cf
Posted by dancingstar on January 23, 2005, at 12:47:39
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » dancingstar, posted by corafree on January 23, 2005, at 12:39:40
Hi CF,
How are you?
Click the link. It works.
Bebe
Posted by winddancer on January 23, 2005, at 13:06:41
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by dancingstar on January 23, 2005, at 12:47:39
Thanks Dancingstar,
I'm starting to go through the info on the links. It sounds like I'm on some pretty dreadful stuff - but maybe it saved me at the time. I was trying to blame my maladies on other things but now feel that there is a good chance that they are mostly Effexor related.
Thanks for all your work finding all that good information. Geez, isn't it amazing what the pharm companies don't want to share with you. Also what they probably don't really want to know about.
Winddancer
Posted by dancingstar on January 23, 2005, at 13:11:15
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » dancingstar, posted by winddancer on January 23, 2005, at 13:06:41
omg, you won't believe what i'm reading now.... here. you can flip through it at will. i've been right all along. 1995.
http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pt/search.pl
watch out for the benadryl!!!!!! omg
Posted by dancingstar on January 23, 2005, at 13:16:18
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » winddancer, posted by dancingstar on January 23, 2005, at 13:11:15
http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/split/Antidepressant-antihistami.html
Posted by corafree on January 23, 2005, at 13:38:16
In reply to MAYBE WE SHOULD RETHINK THE BENADRYL GUYS!!!, posted by dancingstar on January 23, 2005, at 13:16:18
Tks DS...got that...what a giant link!!!
So, seems maybe Allegra preferred over Benadryl in second post.
In my earlier post felt like breakthrough anxiety.
It is my feeling that if I miss my Eff-XR dose by 3+ hrs or more, I 'quickly being withdrawing' and experiencing anxiety. Took one an hour ago and feel so much better now ... like night and day. cf
Anyone else have this going on? cf
Posted by dancingstar on January 23, 2005, at 13:45:01
In reply to Re: MAYBE WE SHOULD RETHINK THE BENADRYL GUYS!!! » dancingstar, posted by corafree on January 23, 2005, at 13:38:16
No, CF, I do not completely understand the ramifications of what I just read. It could be possible that ANY antihistamine is incompatible with any SSRI or SNRI, like Effexor, and is capable of causing heart problems. I think there is some question as to whether or not it is safe to mix the two types of drugs, and if there is some question about it, I would like to not make that sort of error in judgment, again, and I assume everyone else wants to be able to decide that sort of thing for themselves.
That is why I provided the link. I am not saying that it is so, but, um, maybe? Oh, gee....
Posted by corafree on January 23, 2005, at 13:56:25
In reply to Re: MAYBE WE SHOULD RETHINK THE BENADRYL GUYS!!! » corafree, posted by dancingstar on January 23, 2005, at 13:45:01
Bebe - Oh yes, I see where it purports the possibility of antihistamine and SRNI (that's what Eff-XR is, isn't it?) could possibly cause some heart prob. cf
Posted by dancingstar on January 23, 2005, at 14:00:13
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor-XR? » dancingstar, posted by corafree on January 23, 2005, at 13:56:25
Yes, CF, Effexor is an SNRI.
That's what I was looking at. It looks like the information has been passed on from one person to another for what seems like years now, and there doesn't seem to be anything else to make the withdrawal any easier. But I wouldn't risk it after reading this.
Would you?
Posted by winddancer on January 23, 2005, at 14:01:33
In reply to Re: MAYBE WE SHOULD RETHINK THE BENADRYL GUYS!!! » dancingstar, posted by corafree on January 23, 2005, at 13:38:16
Thanks for alluding to that. I hadn't really paid much attention to what time I took the Effexor, just whenever I ate breakfast, which is a little different on the weekends sometimes and I sometimes forget, and have been feeling not great, so I'll watch for that.
Have any of you felt a tingling in your mouth, tongue, lips and fingertips as being related to the Effexor? OR have you had this sensation related to the anxiety? I'm trying to sort or what's what.
winddancer
> Tks DS...got that...what a giant link!!!
>
> So, seems maybe Allegra preferred over Benadryl in second post.
>
> In my earlier post felt like breakthrough anxiety.
>
> It is my feeling that if I miss my Eff-XR dose by 3+ hrs or more, I 'quickly being withdrawing' and experiencing anxiety. Took one an hour ago and feel so much better now ... like night and day. cf
>
> Anyone else have this going on? cf
Posted by corafree on January 23, 2005, at 14:11:59
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor-XR?, posted by dancingstar on January 23, 2005, at 14:00:13
Because of my health problems, no I wouldn't; if strong and healthy could prob' risk it, if is really effective for a bad withdrawal. Guess would depend on the individual. With the knowledge of the problem though, one would have to take responsibility for their actions. cf
Posted by dancingstar on January 23, 2005, at 14:19:31
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor-XR? » dancingstar, posted by corafree on January 23, 2005, at 14:11:59
Corafree,
Just like so many other things, I don't think I would have done this either if I knew. Heart problems run in my family.
AFTER READING THAT, I DON'T THINK YOU GUYS SHOULD TAKE THE ANTIHISTAMINES UNTIL ENGLAND COMES UP WITH A DEFINITIVE ANSWER RE EFFEXOR AND HEART PROBLEMS SINCE IT IS IN THE WORKS RIGHT NOW ANYWAY.
I'm sorry, but it's the same principle that I've been fighting for all along, just safety for our health, nothing more. Is that really too much to ask?
Posted by dancingstar on January 23, 2005, at 14:25:44
In reply to Re: MAYBE WE SHOULD RETHINK THE BENADRYL GUYS!!! » dancingstar, posted by corafree on January 23, 2005, at 13:38:16
my little outburst wasn't directed toward you, cf, it was toward the cosmos in general...my frustration at the helplessness i sometimes feel at being able to really make a difference and really my disappointment in the medical community for not taking some kind of action and instead just going on ahead and prescribing these drugs without being more vocal about the problems so that so many people over the years could have been spared so much pain.
They have known all along that this drug was not right for the types of things it is being prescribed for and ignored the situation. I'm really surprised.
Posted by ccb on January 23, 2005, at 15:11:22
In reply to Re: STOPPING Effexor made easy - alternatives, posted by kgirl on June 3, 2004, at 13:40:41
When I finally got off effexor, I felt angry and/or depressed for a couple of weeks to a month. It did go away for me. Just keep the faith.
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