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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tabitha on January 13, 2005, at 13:30:39
Hey, I've been on Celexa for years, still having bouts of mild-moderate depression but mostly functional. Anyway years ago I had asked my pdoc to add Cytomel-- he gave me 25 mcg, but I didn't think it was helping so I quit. Well recently I was getting interested in thyroid treatment again so I just started taking the old meds. I had a month's worth. During that month, so many things were better. My mood, mental sharpness, sleep, libido, physical energy. Plus I've had this chronic indigestion/fluid retention thing for years. My tummy bloats after every meal and stays that way for hours. Well that all just vanished on the Cytomel-- I had a flat tummy again for the first time in years, and no indigestion at all (no diet changes during this period BTW). I also have chronic carpal tunnel symptoms in one arm-- all of that cleared up completely as well. It's been years since I've been free of that.
The mood improvement was dramatic in the first week. I felt as if I had zero depression, yet not manicky at all. I've never felt that well since I can remember. The mood boost tapered off a bit but other cognitive things were still improved for the whole month-- my thinking was sharper, I was better able to follow discussions and communicate in meetings, felt less impatient with people, and didn't have so much obsessive rumination stuff going on at night. I wonder if I had increased the dose further if the mood boost would have returned--but I was afraid to do that without doctor supervision.
I just ran out of the Cytomel and after 2 days the bloat and carpal tunnel returned. My sleep is worse, and my thinking is seeming a little more disordered (hard to tell-- the return of depression is always an insidious process for me).
I want to get back on it and try increasing the dose. I'm happy to have found something that improved *all* my health issues-- yet angry that I've had these issues so long and told doctors about them but didn't get good help. I've always been told my thyroid tests were normal.
I'm even doubting that I need the psych meds at all-- since the thyroid hormone improved my mood better than any combo I've tried. Anyway I'm not ready to drop the celexa right away-- every time I've tried I've failed, but I do want to give it a trial again after I get the thyroid dose stabilized.
My other big non-psych concern is hair loss which I've been having for years-- it's possible that also could be fixed by thyroid meds-- yet it will take a longer trial to be sure. I had less shedding during this month, but I've also been using Minoxidil. For years I just assumed it was med side effects. I told my doctor about that too and he just said I should go to a derm for evaluation, but he had already seen my bloodwork and said it was all normal, so I didn't go.
There's a doctor in Colorado who believes fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue are best treated with thyroid (T3 alone or T3/T4 combo) and he really makes a good case for it. So many of those symptoms overlap with mine, so I've been really interested in his arguments.
The problem at this point is I'm not sure how to find a doctor to help me with this. Basically I want to increase the T3 to see how high I can go getting benefit without getting hyperthyroid symptoms, and if that goes well I want to try eliminating my AD.
I called my old pdoc to see if he'll help, but he's out of town for now. Using T3 isn't the normal thyroid treatment approach, so I'm hesitant to go to an endo. I have no idea if my HMO doctor would help, but somehow I doubt it.
Well that's the story for now-- just excited about this, plus mad that psych meds might have been the wrong approach for so long.
Posted by Bill LL on January 13, 2005, at 14:20:24
In reply to My Cytomel (T3 thyroid hormone) trial, posted by Tabitha on January 13, 2005, at 13:30:39
There have been a lot of interesting discussions over the years about euthyroid (people with normal thyroid blood tests) depressed people taking T3. Most conventional docs will not give it but some pdocs will.
I read discussions on this site (Dr. Bob) of pdocs taking about their experiences with T3. Basically, they felt that T3 will not alleviate depression by itself in a euthyroid patient, but it sometimes can augment antidepressants.
Some docs who will prescribe thyroid medicine only feel comfortable giving T4. Some give T3, and some think that a pill with actual animal thyoid gland extract (armor thyroid) is the best choice.
The majority of posts that I have read describe only a modest improvement with thyoid supplements in a euthyroid person. Too much thyroid supplementation in a euthyoid person can possibly contribute to osteoporosis in a woman after menapause. So it's important to monitor your TSH levels.
If I were you, I would have an updated thyroid blood test. I would then ask the doctor to give you another trial on T3.
> Hey, I've been on Celexa for years, still having bouts of mild-moderate depression but mostly functional. Anyway years ago I had asked my pdoc to add Cytomel-- he gave me 25 mcg, but I didn't think it was helping so I quit. Well recently I was getting interested in thyroid treatment again so I just started taking the old meds. I had a month's worth. During that month, so many things were better. My mood, mental sharpness, sleep, libido, physical energy. Plus I've had this chronic indigestion/fluid retention thing for years. My tummy bloats after every meal and stays that way for hours. Well that all just vanished on the Cytomel-- I had a flat tummy again for the first time in years, and no indigestion at all (no diet changes during this period BTW). I also have chronic carpal tunnel symptoms in one arm-- all of that cleared up completely as well. It's been years since I've been free of that.
>
> The mood improvement was dramatic in the first week. I felt as if I had zero depression, yet not manicky at all. I've never felt that well since I can remember. The mood boost tapered off a bit but other cognitive things were still improved for the whole month-- my thinking was sharper, I was better able to follow discussions and communicate in meetings, felt less impatient with people, and didn't have so much obsessive rumination stuff going on at night. I wonder if I had increased the dose further if the mood boost would have returned--but I was afraid to do that without doctor supervision.
>
> I just ran out of the Cytomel and after 2 days the bloat and carpal tunnel returned. My sleep is worse, and my thinking is seeming a little more disordered (hard to tell-- the return of depression is always an insidious process for me).
>
> I want to get back on it and try increasing the dose. I'm happy to have found something that improved *all* my health issues-- yet angry that I've had these issues so long and told doctors about them but didn't get good help. I've always been told my thyroid tests were normal.
>
> I'm even doubting that I need the psych meds at all-- since the thyroid hormone improved my mood better than any combo I've tried. Anyway I'm not ready to drop the celexa right away-- every time I've tried I've failed, but I do want to give it a trial again after I get the thyroid dose stabilized.
>
> My other big non-psych concern is hair loss which I've been having for years-- it's possible that also could be fixed by thyroid meds-- yet it will take a longer trial to be sure. I had less shedding during this month, but I've also been using Minoxidil. For years I just assumed it was med side effects. I told my doctor about that too and he just said I should go to a derm for evaluation, but he had already seen my bloodwork and said it was all normal, so I didn't go.
>
> There's a doctor in Colorado who believes fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue are best treated with thyroid (T3 alone or T3/T4 combo) and he really makes a good case for it. So many of those symptoms overlap with mine, so I've been really interested in his arguments.
>
> The problem at this point is I'm not sure how to find a doctor to help me with this. Basically I want to increase the T3 to see how high I can go getting benefit without getting hyperthyroid symptoms, and if that goes well I want to try eliminating my AD.
>
> I called my old pdoc to see if he'll help, but he's out of town for now. Using T3 isn't the normal thyroid treatment approach, so I'm hesitant to go to an endo. I have no idea if my HMO doctor would help, but somehow I doubt it.
>
> Well that's the story for now-- just excited about this, plus mad that psych meds might have been the wrong approach for so long.
Posted by Tabitha on January 17, 2005, at 12:46:15
In reply to Re: My Cytomel (T3 thyroid hormone) trial, posted by Bill LL on January 13, 2005, at 14:20:24
I think we've read the same stuff. Dr Bob's tips had some good info about T3.
I did find one reference somewhere that said the osteoporosis link was uncertain. I'm pre-menopausal but I'll try to get regular bone density scans.
I don't actually know if I'm euthyroid since my last lab-work was before the official range of "normal" changed, and I don't have my numbers. But there are some doctors who argue that the bloodwork isn't all that useful anyway, that it's best to treat by symptoms. Maybe that's why pdocs are more open to using the stuff-- that's how they treat their patients anyway due to the lack of lab tests for psych issues.
Regardless, I actually feel healthier on this stuff. Psych meds have always made me feel less healthy. It's like my brain feels better, but my body feels worse. And I think the AD has been pushing me from depression to anxiety. Which does help my functioning, but it isn't really a great result.
Posted by stresser on January 17, 2005, at 15:53:31
In reply to Re: My Cytomel (T3 thyroid hormone) trial » Bill LL, posted by Tabitha on January 17, 2005, at 12:46:15
Where have you read the posts on T3? I am interested in what you have read about it. How do you know that it is best to treat by symptoms, (sometimes), than by lab results? -L
Posted by Tabitha on January 18, 2005, at 0:27:51
In reply to Re: My Cytomel (T3 thyroid hormone) trial, posted by stresser on January 17, 2005, at 15:53:31
At the top of the page in the paragraph about Tips-- there's a link to a thyroid and depression topic. I also used the site search on "T3" or "cytomel" and found an older thread.
To find information about alternative treatment approaches, I read a couple of lay-person books and did a lot of web-surfing. I pretty much just started by googling "thyroid" and took it from there. You can check Amazon for books.
One site I read with interest was drlowe.com-- he treats fybromyalgia and chronic fatigue with T3, supplements, and exercise. He makes some good arguments about using T3 and is more scientifically-minded than many of the advocates of the alternative approaches.
Posted by Bill LL on January 18, 2005, at 10:05:52
In reply to Re: My Cytomel (T3 thyroid hormone) trial, posted by stresser on January 17, 2005, at 15:53:31
The doctors who think that it is best to treat by symptoms argue that the T3 levels in the blood do not necessarily correlate with how much T3 gets into the cells. They argue that 2 people can have the same blood levels, but one person might have trouble getting thyroid hormones into their cells.
Since there might be a link to osteoporosis, they will generally limit the amount of T3 to a level which will not put your TSH below 1.0.
> Where have you read the posts on T3? I am interested in what you have read about it. How do you know that it is best to treat by symptoms, (sometimes), than by lab results? -L
Posted by Tabitha on January 19, 2005, at 12:00:25
In reply to Re: My Cytomel (T3 thyroid hormone) trial, posted by Bill LL on January 18, 2005, at 10:05:52
I was off the T3 for a week, then got a new supply. I feel even better now-- I think maybe the old pills I was using had lost potency. I'm noticing my sleep is normalized! All my life I've struggled with night-owl pattern, poor quality sleep, difficulty getting to sleep and difficulty waking up in the morning. The past couple days I'm falling asleep almost right after going to bed and waking up easily in the morning.
I have never gotten a good solution to my sleep issues with psych meds. The SSRIs improve sleep quality for me, but make all the other symptoms worse. Adding sedating meds results in me sleeping too many hours and having an even harder time waking up. I'm so pleased to have found what looks like a solution to this!
Here's a bunch of T3 links:
Posted by Bill LL on January 20, 2005, at 13:00:39
In reply to Re: Update and a link to T3 references, posted by Tabitha on January 19, 2005, at 12:00:25
Sounds great!
This is the end of the thread.
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