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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by cubbybear on January 19, 2005, at 6:05:11
There's plenty of info on the Net comparing one particular MAOI anti-depressant vs. an SSRI or TCA AD, but after messing around with
Google for an hour or more, I can't seem to find anything, even in a scholarly publication, that (statistically) compares the 3 major MAOI meds in the U.S.: Parnate, Nardil, and Marplan.If anyone can provide a link to such info, I'd appreciate it. Second best would be personal experiences from anyone who has tried all three, or just two of these meds and can comment regarding side effects (esp. weight gain/loss and effect on sexual performance).
Would also like to know dosage equivalents. Thanks much for your help.
cubbybear
Posted by King Vultan on January 19, 2005, at 7:50:31
In reply to Wanted: MAOI Comparisons, posted by cubbybear on January 19, 2005, at 6:05:11
> There's plenty of info on the Net comparing one particular MAOI anti-depressant vs. an SSRI or TCA AD, but after messing around with
> Google for an hour or more, I can't seem to find anything, even in a scholarly publication, that (statistically) compares the 3 major MAOI meds in the U.S.: Parnate, Nardil, and Marplan.
>
> If anyone can provide a link to such info, I'd appreciate it. Second best would be personal experiences from anyone who has tried all three, or just two of these meds and can comment regarding side effects (esp. weight gain/loss and effect on sexual performance).
>
> Would also like to know dosage equivalents. Thanks much for your help.
> cubbybear
http://www.vh.org/adult/provider/psychiatry/CPS/19.htmlTable 3 has a comparison of the three tradional MAOIs.
Todd
Posted by cubbybear on January 19, 2005, at 9:05:45
In reply to Re: Wanted: MAOI Comparisons, posted by King Vultan on January 19, 2005, at 7:50:31
http://www.vh.org/adult/provider/psychiatry/CPS/19.html
>
> Table 3 has a comparison of the three tradional MAOIs.
>
Hi Todd,
Boy am I dumb--I already have that article at home but forgot all about the chart. But then again, do you think that a comparison based on a mere handful of people could be statistically valid? I sure don't.I realize how difficult it is to get an-across-the-board comparison, since relatively few people these days take an MAOI, and even fewer have tried more than one of them.
cubbybear
Posted by gardenergirl on January 19, 2005, at 11:25:37
In reply to Re: Wanted: MAOI Comparisons » King Vultan, posted by cubbybear on January 19, 2005, at 9:05:45
I've seen that article too. I'm interested in hearing about subjective experiences of Parnate vs. Nardil from those who have tried both. How did they differ in their effect?
gg
Posted by djmmm on January 19, 2005, at 12:15:08
In reply to Re: Wanted: MAOI Comparisons » King Vultan, posted by gardenergirl on January 19, 2005, at 11:25:37
> I've seen that article too. I'm interested in hearing about subjective experiences of Parnate vs. Nardil from those who have tried both. How did they differ in their effect?
>
> ggNardil:
*more pronounced side-effects: hypotension, weight gain, impotence/anorgasmia, carb-craving/voracious appetite, mild hand tremor.
*Physical/emotional "effects": relaxed stimualtion, mild euphoria, general sense of wellbeing, increased empathy, increased ability to handle stress
Parnate:
*side-effects: stimulation (more similar to a stimulant), insomnia, weight loss, anorexia, pro-sexual.
*physical/emotional effects: non euphoric stimulation, motivation (increase in aggression) increase in concentration/clear thinking.
Both drugs were very effective for my depression.
As far as social anxiety:
Nardil was slightly superior.
*Pros: the relaxed, stimulation, sense of wellbeing*cons: I still had problems with the "physical/ visible symptoms of anxiety: tremor, sweating, blushing
Parnate
*pros: motivation, concentration, confidence, no anxiety induced tremor, no sweating or blushing, weight loss (no craving) decreased appetiete.*cons: can be too stimulating at times, lacks the sense of wellbeing/ mild euphoria of Nardil. Occasional need for Klonopin.
I have switched between these two meds a few times, both are VERY effective, and the side-effects are far less pronounced then the SSRIs, Effexor, etc. Both meds are great for social anxiety, Nardil being slightly better, but both drugs far superior to any other med I have tried (including Klonopin)
Posted by gardenergirl on January 19, 2005, at 13:25:58
In reply to Re: Wanted: MAOI Comparisons, posted by djmmm on January 19, 2005, at 12:15:08
Thanks, that is very helpful. I have atypical depression. I know what you mean about the mild euphoria thing with the Nardil. What it helps me with the most, I think is getting past the excessive sleeping and avoidance behaviors. I wonder if Parnate would be better for me due to its stimulating properties. The decreased appetite, increased focus, and decreased sweating sound promising. And hmmm, I am an emotionally sensitive person. I wonder if the Nardil contributes to me feeling more rawly emotional, which is both a blessing and a curse at times.
Food for thought. Thanks!
gg
Posted by Maxime on January 19, 2005, at 20:23:59
In reply to Re: Wanted: MAOI Comparisons » djmmm, posted by gardenergirl on January 19, 2005, at 13:25:58
Marplan is hard to get in the U.S. (I think) although it is available in Canada.
Max
Posted by smith562 on January 19, 2005, at 21:33:16
In reply to Wanted: MAOI Comparisons, posted by cubbybear on January 19, 2005, at 6:05:11
My 2 cents,
Nardil: Very social, moderate insomnia, 30 lbs weight gain, moderate hypotension, memory loss, sexual dysfunction, no panic attacks, no depression, afternoon sedation, probably met critera for hypomania
Parnate: Increase anxiety, severe insomnia, no weight gain, no cognitive dysfunction, sexual stimulant up to 30 mgs ... then sexual dysfunction at 40 mgs and higher, more motivation
Smith
Posted by cubbybear on January 19, 2005, at 23:31:43
In reply to Re: Wanted: MAOI Comparisons, posted by smith562 on January 19, 2005, at 21:33:16
> My 2 cents,
>
> Nardil: Very social, moderate insomnia, 30 lbs weight gain, moderate hypotension, memory loss, sexual dysfunction, no panic attacks, no depression, afternoon sedation, probably met critera for hypomania
>
> Parnate: Increase anxiety, severe insomnia, no weight gain, no cognitive dysfunction, sexual stimulant up to 30 mgs ... then sexual dysfunction at 40 mgs and higher, more motivation
>
> SmithHi Smith,
I guess this is clear proof how everyone reacts differently to every drug. My 20 years' experience with Parnate have shown the following: greatly diminished anxiety, moderate insomnia, weight gain, no effect on sexual function at any dose.Thanks for your 2 cents anyway!
cubbybear
Posted by Willyee on January 21, 2005, at 0:27:57
In reply to Re: Wanted: MAOI Comparisons, posted by djmmm on January 19, 2005, at 12:15:08
> > I've seen that article too. I'm interested in hearing about subjective experiences of Parnate vs. Nardil from those who have tried both. How did they differ in their effect?
> >
> > gg
>
> Nardil:
>
> *more pronounced side-effects: hypotension, weight gain, impotence/anorgasmia, carb-craving/voracious appetite, mild hand tremor.
>
> *Physical/emotional "effects": relaxed stimualtion, mild euphoria, general sense of wellbeing, increased empathy, increased ability to handle stress
>
> Parnate:
>
> *side-effects: stimulation (more similar to a stimulant), insomnia, weight loss, anorexia, pro-sexual.
>
> *physical/emotional effects: non euphoric stimulation, motivation (increase in aggression) increase in concentration/clear thinking.
>
> Both drugs were very effective for my depression.
>
> As far as social anxiety:
>
> Nardil was slightly superior.
> *Pros: the relaxed, stimulation, sense of wellbeing
>
> *cons: I still had problems with the "physical/ visible symptoms of anxiety: tremor, sweating, blushing
>
> Parnate
> *pros: motivation, concentration, confidence, no anxiety induced tremor, no sweating or blushing, weight loss (no craving) decreased appetiete.
>
> *cons: can be too stimulating at times, lacks the sense of wellbeing/ mild euphoria of Nardil. Occasional need for Klonopin.
>
> I have switched between these two meds a few times, both are VERY effective, and the side-effects are far less pronounced then the SSRIs, Effexor, etc. Both meds are great for social anxiety, Nardil being slightly better, but both drugs far superior to any other med I have tried (including Klonopin)
I think trying to weed through these will only make things difficult for ya.The main thing to know is both of them seem to have in general a very good success rate,and even when they dont work usualy dont seem to screw one up as bad as the newer ones.Everyone is different so all we are gonne see here are a big ball of information.For example one person labled parnate as making them fatigue,another just mentioned it was anxiety envoking,i myself take parnate and as far as anxiety goes,well give you a hint i have often augmented it with caffiene pills.
Nardil to me created more anxiety,or compulsive behaiviour,gaba meds usualy do that,id just choose one you feel might work,and take ur time with it,feeling good knowing u still have a second option in the wings.But everyones individual reaction is so different,right down to dosages,it would be very hard to use such a broad and general range of information to your benifit,damn this parnate makes me feel articulate,doesent do a thing for my spelling though.
>
>
Posted by cubbybear on January 22, 2005, at 4:10:18
In reply to Re: Wanted: MAOI Comparisons, posted by djmmm on January 19, 2005, at 12:15:08
>
> I have switched between these two meds a few times, both are VERY effective, and the side-effects are far less pronounced then the SSRIs, Effexor, etcHi,
I've got some very imp. questions. Why have you switched back and forth between Nardil and Parnate?
In general, do you believe that Parnate kills or alleviates general anxiety (if anxiety is a symptom/flip side of your depression)?
And if so, have you experienced anxiety "breakthrough" at certain times?
And have you ever experienced Parnate poopout?Thanks much for your help.
cubbybear
Posted by gardenergirl on January 22, 2005, at 19:45:11
In reply to Re: Wanted: MAOI Comparisons, posted by djmmm on January 19, 2005, at 12:15:08
I'm planning to talk to my pdoc about switching. I'm mostly hoping to counter the weight gain and the edema.
How long did you wash out one before starting the other when you switch?
gg
This is the end of the thread.
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