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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by stann on December 19, 2004, at 23:04:27
I have generalized anxiety and depression.I have been off AD'S for many month because they do not work for me. I am taking 5mg valium at bed time and 7.5mg imovane at bed time to help me sleep.
Blood work I had done discovered that my total and bioavalible testosterone levels were very low,out of the normal range.I was given Angrogel 5g packets , I us one every morning.It has been five days since I have started it.It is making me feel very stimulated in the wrong ways. I feel extremly agitated and aggravted.I wake early in the morning with ruminating thoughts and anger.Will these feeling go away after a while? But, my body does feel stronger and less achy. I was hoping it would make my mental health a little better. The urologist said that better mental health usually happens when on T therapy.Does anyone have any experience with T therapy. I would appreciate any feed back.
Thanks....
Stann...
Posted by ed_uk on December 20, 2004, at 11:59:14
In reply to Angrogel (low testosterone)experiences, posted by stann on December 19, 2004, at 23:04:27
Hi,
Perhaps the dose is too high. Maybe you should contact your doctor and ask whether you can try a lower dose.
Ed.
Posted by stann on December 20, 2004, at 13:43:37
In reply to Re: Angrogel (low testosterone)experiences, posted by ed_uk on December 20, 2004, at 11:59:14
> Hi,
>
> Perhaps the dose is too high. Maybe you should contact your doctor and ask whether you can try a lower dose.
>
> Ed.Thanks for the advise Ed. In fact I had planned and did cut my dose in half today. Will wait to see what happends in the next few days. I did not think 2.5grams of this stuff would be beneficial to me, but I called the phamacy and was told that is a therapeutic dose for some people.I do have a sensitivity to most meds, so it may help.Also I made an appointment to see my urologist tomorrow.
Stann..
Posted by lars1 on December 21, 2004, at 5:15:48
In reply to Re: Angrogel (low testosterone)experiences, posted by stann on December 20, 2004, at 13:43:37
Please keep us updated on how your treatment is going. I am considering the same thing myself, so I will be very interested to hear about it.
Posted by PeterJ on December 22, 2004, at 0:54:22
In reply to Angrogel (low testosterone)experiences, posted by stann on December 19, 2004, at 23:04:27
> Blood work I had done discovered that my total and bioavalible testosterone levels were very low,out of the normal range.I was given Angrogel 5g packets , I us one every morning.It has been five days since I have started it.It is making me feel very stimulated in the wrong ways. I feel extremly agitated and aggravted.I wake early in the morning with ruminating thoughts and anger.Will these feeling go away after a while? But, my body does feel stronger and less achy. I was hoping it would make my mental health a little better. The urologist said that better mental health usually happens when on T therapy.Does anyone have any experience with T therapy. I would appreciate any feed back.
I have been using Androgel for over a year. Before that I was on testosterone enanthate injections for 10 years due to severe testosterone deficiency of adult onset.
I find that an unpleasant stimulation can occur when testosterone doses are increased. I have found that one tends to adapt to this with time and the adverse effects diminish to the point that they are outweighed by the benefits.
It's a bit like undergoing puberty again, but during puberty you have years to adapt, rather than days. Teenage guys can be pretty irritable until they adapt to the increase in tesosterone.
I think it is wise for you to decrease the dose now to 2.5gms. You can just use squeeze out half a packet and save the rest for the next day. In time you may find you want to work up to 5.0gms.
You should have your T levels (total T and free T) checked on androgel at least once. Individuals vary enormously in the efficiency of absorption. It's partly a matter of your skin type (thick vs thin, moist vs dry, etc.) Maybe you're absorbing a lot.
Another possibility is that the Androgel is unmasking the presence of an anxiety disorder which may need treatment on its own to allow you to take the amount of testosterone your body needs.
I'd be interested in hearing how things go.
PeterJ
Posted by SLS on December 22, 2004, at 1:17:52
In reply to Re: Angrogel (low testosterone)experiences, posted by PeterJ on December 22, 2004, at 0:54:22
Nice to see you again.
:-)
- Scott
Posted by stann on December 22, 2004, at 21:59:53
In reply to Re: Angrogel (low testosterone)experiences, posted by PeterJ on December 22, 2004, at 0:54:22
> I have been using Androgel for over a year. Before that I was on testosterone enanthate injections for 10 years due to severe testosterone deficiency of adult onset.
>
> I find that an unpleasant stimulation can occur when testosterone doses are increased. I have found that one tends to adapt to this with time and the adverse effects diminish to the point that they are outweighed by the benefits.
>
> It's a bit like undergoing puberty again, but during puberty you have years to adapt, rather than days. Teenage guys can be pretty irritable until they adapt to the increase in tesosterone.
>
> I think it is wise for you to decrease the dose now to 2.5gms. You can just use squeeze out half a packet and save the rest for the next day. In time you may find you want to work up to 5.0gms.
>
> You should have your T levels (total T and free T) checked on androgel at least once. Individuals vary enormously in the efficiency of absorption. It's partly a matter of your skin type (thick vs thin, moist vs dry, etc.) Maybe you're absorbing a lot.
>
> Another possibility is that the Androgel is unmasking the presence of an anxiety disorder which may need treatment on its own to allow you to take the amount of testosterone your body needs.
>
> I'd be interested in hearing how things go.
>
> PeterJHi, unfortunately I had to stop the gel after only one day at 2.5g. I could not stand the way I was feeling on it.It has been two days off of it and am still feeling some bad effects.I did try Androgel about a year ago for about six weeks at 5mg than had to stop it and try it again because of adema in my hands and feet.Also, at the same time I was taking AD's for my anxiety and depression so I stopped it and tried Andriol than a patch. The angriol was a nightmare and the patch was terrible. So, I thought while I am not taking any meds except for Valium and Imovane at bed time I would give the gel another chance.
I seen my doc yesterday and he does not want to give me injections of T for fear of a bad reaction. I am not sure what to do. I do think having low T is affecting my health. I am so very tired and weak all the time. In the morning I wake feeling as if I had barely slept.Going to the gym is also very exhausting. I have suffered from fatigue my whole life. Maybe I will try the Androgel again, but starting out at 2.5g and staying at that dose for a long time. If I can tolerate it.
Also, I will be seeing an endocrinologist this February, 2005. Apparently there is a drug called Clomiphene Citrate that she could prescribe.It is suppose to increase T, by stimulating the pituitary gland. This is what my urologist told me.
I wonder if I have had low T my whole life??
Take care..
Stann...
>
>
Posted by jerrympls on December 23, 2004, at 18:01:13
In reply to Angrogel (low testosterone)experiences, posted by stann on December 19, 2004, at 23:04:27
> I have generalized anxiety and depression.I have been off AD'S for many month because they do not work for me. I am taking 5mg valium at bed time and 7.5mg imovane at bed time to help me sleep.
>
> Blood work I had done discovered that my total and bioavalible testosterone levels were very low,out of the normal range.I was given Angrogel 5g packets , I us one every morning.It has been five days since I have started it.It is making me feel very stimulated in the wrong ways. I feel extremly agitated and aggravted.I wake early in the morning with ruminating thoughts and anger.Will these feeling go away after a while? But, my body does feel stronger and less achy. I was hoping it would make my mental health a little better. The urologist said that better mental health usually happens when on T therapy.Does anyone have any experience with T therapy. I would appreciate any feed back.
>
> Thanks....
>
> Stann...
>
Weird - I was on the same treatment with no side effects and no improvement. They finally deteremined I must be at too low a dose -but then gave up on the treatment. Go figure.Jerry
Posted by stann on December 23, 2004, at 22:28:51
In reply to Re: Angrogel (low testosterone)experiences » stann, posted by jerrympls on December 23, 2004, at 18:01:13
> > I have generalized anxiety and depression.I have been off AD'S for many month because they do not work for me. I am taking 5mg valium at bed time and 7.5mg imovane at bed time to help me sleep.
> >
> > Blood work I had done discovered that my total and bioavalible testosterone levels were very low,out of the normal range.I was given Angrogel 5g packets , I us one every morning.It has been five days since I have started it.It is making me feel very stimulated in the wrong ways. I feel extremly agitated and aggravted.I wake early in the morning with ruminating thoughts and anger.Will these feeling go away after a while? But, my body does feel stronger and less achy. I was hoping it would make my mental health a little better. The urologist said that better mental health usually happens when on T therapy.Does anyone have any experience with T therapy. I would appreciate any feed back.
> >
> > Thanks....
> >
> > Stann...
> >
>
>
> Weird - I was on the same treatment with no side effects and no improvement. They finally deteremined I must be at too low a dose -but then gave up on the treatment. Go figure.
>
> JerryJerry, how low were your T levels?And what were your symptoms?
That dose sound strange.Stann
Posted by jerrympls on December 24, 2004, at 0:33:54
In reply to Re: Angrogel (low testosterone)experiences, posted by stann on December 23, 2004, at 22:28:51
> > > I have generalized anxiety and depression.I have been off AD'S for many month because they do not work for me. I am taking 5mg valium at bed time and 7.5mg imovane at bed time to help me sleep.
> > >
> > > Blood work I had done discovered that my total and bioavalible testosterone levels were very low,out of the normal range.I was given Angrogel 5g packets , I us one every morning.It has been five days since I have started it.It is making me feel very stimulated in the wrong ways. I feel extremly agitated and aggravted.I wake early in the morning with ruminating thoughts and anger.Will these feeling go away after a while? But, my body does feel stronger and less achy. I was hoping it would make my mental health a little better. The urologist said that better mental health usually happens when on T therapy.Does anyone have any experience with T therapy. I would appreciate any feed back.
> > >
> > > Thanks....
> > >
> > > Stann...
> > >
> >
> >
> > Weird - I was on the same treatment with no side effects and no improvement. They finally deteremined I must be at too low a dose -but then gave up on the treatment. Go figure.
> >
> > Jerry
>
> Jerry, how low were your T levels?And what were your symptoms?
> That dose sound strange.
>
> Stann
>
>I had the Androgel 5g packets too. My Rx was one/day. I can't remember my exact levels - but the tests were done by a established endocrinologist here. I remember him saying that my levels were "on the low side" but how far on the low side I don't know? I was referred to this doc by my pdoc because my depression has been so treatment resistant they wanted to see if anything underlying could be causing it. When the doc found my levels were off, he said "Well, it won't hurt to try it and if it works - then great." My symptoms are depression - of course - fatigue, low sex drive/desire.
Jerry
Posted by alohashirt on December 25, 2004, at 20:35:06
In reply to Re: Angrogel (low testosterone)experiences » stann, posted by jerrympls on December 24, 2004, at 0:33:54
I have been using Testim - a similar gel combined with two weekly injection of testosterone since a routine physical found low testosterone (I'm in my early 40s.)
Definite increase in physical vigor and optimism.
Also acne, excess libido.
Posted by PeterJ on December 26, 2004, at 1:18:41
In reply to Re: Angrogel (low testosterone)experiences, posted by stann on December 22, 2004, at 21:59:53
> Hi, unfortunately I had to stop the gel after only one day at 2.5g. I could not stand the way I was feeling on it.It has been two days off of it and am still feeling some bad effects.I did try Androgel about a year ago for about six weeks at 5mg than had to stop it and try it again because of adema in my hands and feet.Also, at the same time I was taking AD's for my anxiety and depression so I stopped it and tried Andriol than a patch. The angriol was a nightmare and the patch was terrible. So, I thought while I am not taking any meds except for Valium and Imovane at bed time I would give the gel another chance.
>
> I seen my doc yesterday and he does not want to give me injections of T for fear of a bad reaction. I am not sure what to do. I do think having low T is affecting my health. I am so very tired and weak all the time. In the morning I wake feeling as if I had barely slept.Going to the gym is also very exhausting. I have suffered from fatigue my whole life. Maybe I will try the Androgel again, but starting out at 2.5g and staying at that dose for a long time. If I can tolerate it.
>
> Also, I will be seeing an endocrinologist this February, 2005. Apparently there is a drug called Clomiphene Citrate that she could prescribe.It is suppose to increase T, by stimulating the pituitary gland. This is what my urologist told me.
>
> I wonder if I have had low T my whole life??
The testosterone injections produce an effect that lasts up to two weeks, so I would avoid them if I were you. If the injection dose is too high you will feel horrible for one or two weeks with no way to reverse it.The androgel is absorbed over 3-4 days, so the gel does accumulate in the skin and it takes that long for the effects to dminish.
You might even consider trying 2.5gms Androgel every other day and see if you can tolerate that.
I sympathize with your predicament as I know the feeling of too much testosterone stimulation can be extremely unpleasant and at the same time, having too little is not good for one's long term quality of life.The clomiphene could be effective, although there is no guarantee it won't overstimulate.
Another possiblity might be to use the testoterone along with a drug that has a calming effect (whatever that might be in your case).
PeterJ
Posted by stann on December 26, 2004, at 12:30:48
In reply to Re: Angrogel (low testosterone)experiences, posted by PeterJ on December 26, 2004, at 1:18:41
>
> The testosterone injections produce an effect that lasts up to two weeks, so I would avoid them if I were you. If the injection dose is too high you will feel horrible for one or two weeks with no way to reverse it.
>
> The androgel is absorbed over 3-4 days, so the gel does accumulate in the skin and it takes that long for the effects to dminish.
>
> You might even consider trying 2.5gms Androgel every other day and see if you can tolerate that.
> I sympathize with your predicament as I know the feeling of too much testosterone stimulation can be extremely unpleasant and at the same time, having too little is not good for one's long term quality of life.
>
> The clomiphene could be effective, although there is no guarantee it won't overstimulate.
>
> Another possiblity might be to use the testoterone along with a drug that has a calming effect (whatever that might be in your case).
>
> PeterJ
I wonder if 2.5gms of androgel every other day would deliver enough T to make a difference,or would it cause me to have less T because my body would stop producing its own T??I can say my body feels very weak and sore and my cognitions are still overwhelming. I have no sense of relaxation or focus..
Stann..
Posted by stann on December 26, 2004, at 12:34:47
In reply to Re: Angrogel (low testosterone)experiences, posted by alohashirt on December 25, 2004, at 20:35:06
> I have been using Testim - a similar gel combined with two weekly injection of testosterone since a routine physical found low testosterone (I'm in my early 40s.)
>
> Definite increase in physical vigor and optimism.
> Also acne, excess libido.Were you overstimulated or did you have any cognitive problems at the beginning of your treatment??
I do not think I can get Testim here in Canada.
Stann
Posted by stann on December 26, 2004, at 13:02:54
In reply to Re: Angrogel (low testosterone)experiences, posted by PeterJ on December 26, 2004, at 1:18:41
> The testosterone injections produce an effect that lasts up to two weeks, so I would avoid them if I were you. If the injection dose is too high you will feel horrible for one or two weeks with no way to reverse it.
>
> The androgel is absorbed over 3-4 days, so the gel does accumulate in the skin and it takes that long for the effects to dminish.
>
> You might even consider trying 2.5gms Androgel every other day and see if you can tolerate that.
> I sympathize with your predicament as I know the feeling of too much testosterone stimulation can be extremely unpleasant and at the same time, having too little is not good for one's long term quality of life.
>
> The clomiphene could be effective, although there is no guarantee it won't overstimulate.
>
> Another possiblity might be to use the testoterone along with a drug that has a calming effect (whatever that might be in your case).
>
> PeterJFrom what I have read about Clomiphene, it is suppose to work very well and is said to be a more natural way of getting T in our system.Wish I could get my hands on some right now.My Appt with the endo is over a month away from now.I hate waiting.
Stann....
Posted by Optimist on December 28, 2004, at 12:25:40
In reply to Re: Angrogel (low testosterone)experiences, posted by stann on December 26, 2004, at 13:02:54
>
> > The testosterone injections produce an effect that lasts up to two weeks, so I would avoid them if I were you. If the injection dose is too high you will feel horrible for one or two weeks with no way to reverse it.
> >
> > The androgel is absorbed over 3-4 days, so the gel does accumulate in the skin and it takes that long for the effects to dminish.
> >
> > You might even consider trying 2.5gms Androgel every other day and see if you can tolerate that.
> > I sympathize with your predicament as I know the feeling of too much testosterone stimulation can be extremely unpleasant and at the same time, having too little is not good for one's long term quality of life.
> >
> > The clomiphene could be effective, although there is no guarantee it won't overstimulate.
> >
> > Another possiblity might be to use the testoterone along with a drug that has a calming effect (whatever that might be in your case).
> >
> > PeterJ
>
> From what I have read about Clomiphene, it is suppose to work very well and is said to be a more natural way of getting T in our system.Wish I could get my hands on some right now.My Appt with the endo is over a month away from now.I hate waiting.
>
> Stann....
>
>
I wouldn't recommend the clomiphene(clomid). Many bodybuilders use it during/after a cycle of steroids to maintain/regain their testicular mass and function. They often report mood swings, and pms type behaviour. I think it's due to a progesterone effect the drug may impart. So while it may increase your testosterone levels you may not like the other side effects. Not for a mood disorder anyways.Taking an anti-estrogen can help to increase your natural testosterone levels. Nolvadex is the most popular I believe, among bodybuilders/athletes anyways. I'd have to jog my memory for some other anti-estrogen compounds that are useful but I know Nolvadex is a good choice.
Testosterone and estrogen are invertly associated, so when one goes up the other usually goes down.
Posted by stann on December 29, 2004, at 11:58:17
In reply to Re: Clomiphene can make you moody/pms symptoms » stann, posted by Optimist on December 28, 2004, at 12:25:40
> > From what I have read about Clomiphene, it is suppose to work very well and is said to be a more natural way of getting T in our system.Wish I could get my hands on some right now.My Appt with the endo is over a month away from now.I hate waiting.
> >
> > Stann....
> >
> >
>
>
> I wouldn't recommend the clomiphene(clomid). Many bodybuilders use it during/after a cycle of steroids to maintain/regain their testicular mass and function. They often report mood swings, and pms type behaviour. I think it's due to a progesterone effect the drug may impart. So while it may increase your testosterone levels you may not like the other side effects. Not for a mood disorder anyways.
>
> Taking an anti-estrogen can help to increase your natural testosterone levels. Nolvadex is the most popular I believe, among bodybuilders/athletes anyways. I'd have to jog my memory for some other anti-estrogen compounds that are useful but I know Nolvadex is a good choice.
>
> Testosterone and estrogen are invertly associated, so when one goes up the other usually goes down.
Thanks for this information on the meds. It gives me a little more hope for possible treatments.
As for the mood swings that bodybuilders claim to get from Clomiphene. I am thinking they may be taking to much of the medicine. Bodybuilders tend to overdue it on whatever supplements they are using.But I will definitely keep this side effect in mind when I see the endo doctor.
Stann..
Posted by lia mason on January 1, 2005, at 13:37:18
In reply to Re: Angrogel (low testosterone)experiences, posted by PeterJ on December 26, 2004, at 1:18:41
Hi....
This is really interesting. I have been prescribed Testim for vulvodynia--a gynecological pain condition--but have not started yet.
Anyone here taken it for pain?
I have had bloodwork that showed I am low. Took DHEA for 2 years... didn't help.
Lia
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