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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by rainy on December 18, 2004, at 14:21:11
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds and Salmon Capsules » stresser, posted by iris2 on December 18, 2004, at 13:51:02
I dunno, Irene, I think that's where I'm completely bonkers. I've been fighting that very question because I really need to gain weight and I don't want to take a medicine that would make me do so. Last night I saw a picture of myself taken four years ago when I weighed 30 or 40 pounds more than I do now, maybe a bit more, and I don't want to go back there.
The SSRIs that I took slowly but surely put it on. Not all of it to be sure, screw drivers did their share. But I'm completely irrational and my pdoc says I've tied her hands. I understand where L's coming from and I also see your point. You make sense. I don't, not even to myself.
rainy
Posted by bridgey1128 on December 18, 2004, at 15:57:50
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds and Salmon Capsules » stresser, posted by iris2 on December 18, 2004, at 13:51:02
Actually usually the weight gain adds TO the depression, it doesn't usually help it. That is why I refuse also to take anything that makes me gain weight. Why should I take somethign that is supposed to make me feel better that is also going to make me fat? That just adds more fuel to the fire if you ask me and adds one more problem. 10 or 15lbs is not something to get depressed about but 50-100lbs IS!!! It is also not healthy. So the trade off isn't worth it in my book. That is why I wouldn't take lithium. I've been crazy for 27 years I can be crazy for just as many more and NOT fat if that is what it takes. And YES that is worth it to me. I have been heavy for most of my life and I know that my physical health is worth more than my mental health sometimes. I have more ups than downs and if I gain more weight my back doesn't have a shot in you know what of ever getting any better. The Topomax hasn't done squat of helping me lose weight or controlling my appetite but at least it hasn't made me gain weight so I know EXACTLY where she is coming from. I guess some of us are that stubborn. It's not really a vanity thing, it's a health thing. I feel 10 times worse and more depressed when I am fat so why take something that is supposed to help get me undepressed but only adds to the problem? That doesn't make any sense to me. And personally, I don't think that Welbutrin is for people who are bipolar. Are you bipolar L? That could be the problem. I have known lots of people that it has driven bonkers. It may not be the right drug for you. I wouldn't be surprised if that was what was doing it to you. It did it to me.
Posted by iris2 on December 18, 2004, at 16:03:25
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds and Salmon Capsules » iris2, posted by rainy on December 18, 2004, at 14:21:11
Rainy,
You do make sense though because you are aware of your own irrational thoughts from what you just said. Somethimes we cannot help feeling irrational but we can still be aware of the rational side of things. It is like if you know you are insane then you are not actually insane. Being aware is key.
It's not that I don't think these irrational thoughts myself but it is important that I recognize them for what they are. I know I have irrational thinking about weight and my body even as I have the thoughts. I recently fought with myself for several months because I was gaining weight from antidepressant. If I had not been aware of my own irrational thinking about it all I probably would never have tried the medication. It helped me some but not enough for the trade off of gaining weight and body changes from increased prolactin along with my mensus stopping because of it. If it had relieved my depression a great deal I would have still had thoughts about being very unhappy about gaining weight but in the end I do believe that I would have decided to stay on it because I am able to recognise my irrational thoughts about weight for what they are. Of course no one wants to gain weight they do not need but given the severity of my depression I would hope that I can be rational enough to accept a weight gain if the medication relieves the depression. Streesor said she would not take any medication that might make her gain weight. If I have that attitude, given that most of them can make me gain weight I might as well not even try to find a medication to alleviate the depression. I hope it will not increase my weight but if it does I will just have to deal with it.
Posted by rainy on December 18, 2004, at 16:04:34
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds and Salmon Capsules, posted by bridgey1128 on December 18, 2004, at 15:57:50
How come you don't think WB is for BP people, Bridgey? It's one of the few antidepressants that's theoreticlly approved by who knows who for use with us. I'm not sure it works, mind you.
rainy
Posted by iris2 on December 18, 2004, at 16:15:17
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds and Salmon Capsules, posted by bridgey1128 on December 18, 2004, at 15:57:50
Bridgey,
Actually I agree wiht you. When I speak of weight gain I am only speaking of 10 or 20 pounds not 50 pounds. If the medication is causing a health problem than the trade of is not worth it I agree. I also agree that gaining weight makes me more depressed. I am so depressed and not funtional that if a medication should help me feel significantly better and I only have what others would consider somewhat of an insignificant weight gain of up to say 20 pounds or so than I think it is irrational of me not to continue taking the medication or even not to try one that has the possibility of increasing my weight. What I am saying is that it is irrational of me not to take an antidepressant that might work very well or does work well if I gain 10 or 20 pounds from taking it. If I am so depressesed from gaining that amount of weight than it is irrational and part of my mental illness and I need to work on that issue. It is my experience that people I have known without weight issues like I have do not get totally depressed when they gain weight. They might not like it but they are still happy people. There is a difference.
Posted by bridgey1128 on December 18, 2004, at 16:22:07
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds and Salmon Capsules » bridgey1128, posted by iris2 on December 18, 2004, at 16:15:17
I'm really surprised about the Welbutrin. It made me absolutely bonkers! That and it made my mouth feel like cotton!
Posted by redscarlet on December 18, 2004, at 16:28:18
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds and Salmon Capsules, posted by bridgey1128 on December 18, 2004, at 16:22:07
> I'm really surprised about the Welbutrin. It made me absolutely bonkers! That and it made my mouth feel like cotton!
I'm bipolar, and it works GREAT for me !!!
Posted by bridgey1128 on December 18, 2004, at 16:53:58
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds and Salmon Capsules, posted by redscarlet on December 18, 2004, at 16:28:18
Do you take it with anything else or just by itself? And if just an antidepressant works could you have just been misdiagnosed as bipolar? That is what is so confusing. It's never a perfected science. Some people are just depressed and diagnosed as bipolar. Some are bipolar, like me, and were diagnosed as depressed or either ADHD or schitzo or worse. I was just wondering if just an antidepressant works how to you handle the mania?
Posted by banga on December 18, 2004, at 17:20:40
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds and Salmon Capsules, posted by bridgey1128 on December 18, 2004, at 15:57:50
I agree that worrying about weight is not necessarily vain, or indicative of another psychological (e.g. eating disorder) problem. Certainly you need to examine it as it can be the case! and should first be ruled out, but weight gain can be a serious detriment. For me, gaining more than 10 pounds means my back giving out. On Paxil, I not only gained weight and felt ugly, but my back was in constant pain, I could not ski or do other activities I loved, had to wear back braces, pay for more therapeutic techniques. My relatives later admitted that my puffy face looked awfully unhealthy. Weigth gain means more health and heart problems. Means spending money to buy more clothes. And of course influencing self-esteem and increase social anxiety.
One should be able to work with gaining a little weight, but some of these meds cause serious, problematic weight gain and should not be dismissed as not being a valid concern. Certainly if it is a mental health emergency, you should take any med that has worked for you--even if you gain weight. Then when things settle down, try to find alternatives.
Posted by bridgey1128 on December 18, 2004, at 17:28:32
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds --and weight, posted by banga on December 18, 2004, at 17:20:40
Because of my frame I have to gain about 20lbs or so to actually notice a difference in weight. I have lost 30lbs and people are JUST NOW asking me if I have lost weight. I am also still in the same size jeans. I guess it all depends on your body frame as to how weight gain and loss affects your health as well.
Posted by redscarlet on December 18, 2004, at 17:32:15
In reply to Welbutrin, posted by bridgey1128 on December 18, 2004, at 16:53:58
> Do you take it with anything else or just by itself? And if just an antidepressant works could you have just been misdiagnosed as bipolar? That is what is so confusing. It's never a perfected science. Some people are just depressed and diagnosed as bipolar. Some are bipolar, like me, and were diagnosed as depressed or either ADHD or schitzo or worse. I was just wondering if just an antidepressant works how to you handle the mania?
No, not misdiagnosed, I REALLY have bipolar.
I take Zonegran, Geodon, Seroquel and Xanax along with 450mg of Wellbutrin daily.
Posted by iris2 on December 18, 2004, at 18:37:57
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds --and weight, posted by banga on December 18, 2004, at 17:20:40
Of course if gaining weight causes another medical problem one has to take that into account. And one does not have to be thought of as vain just because of being unhappy about ones weight gain. There is nothing wrong with wanting to look good and feel and be healthy.I think I am just coming from a different place than most of you. I have had an eating disorder and accompanying body image problems and hysteria over weight gain for 30 years. I also suffer from a very severe treatment resistant depression of the same time period. I have had some medications help with the depression in the past. I am not able to work and have tried to commit suicide several times. The last mediation I tried helped with the constant ruminating negative thoughts (which I am feeling right now) but did nothing for my motivation, concentration or anhedonia at all. I did however gain several pounds on it my stomach got “real big”and I went up a size in clothes from 6 to 8 or more.. I wonder what some of you would have done in my shoes? I stayed on it for over three months and continued to have body changes. I was and continue to be very depressed about the body and weight changes and decided finally that the bad outweighed the good
I honestly think that from my perspective when talking about weight issues and depression I am coming a different place. I think that is why I get so upset when I read things like someone absolutely will not take a medication if it makes them gain weight. I am in a constant struggle with myself to be ok about my weight. I think if I find an antidepressant that works WELL I should take it even if I gain some weight. I would consider my depression a morbid disease and as such I need to be logical about some weight gain in this circumstance. If I had a debilitating physical illness that impaired my functioning in this manner and could take a drug so that I was able to function and work and have a life but gained some weight (not so much that it affected my health adversely) than I think that someone without an eating disorder would not think twice about it. For me I do and I do not think this is rational. It is close to saying I would rather take a chance on dieing than gain some weight. It is not rational and I need to continue to recognize this. I think I am personalizing what others say here and it does not pertain to my circumstance at all.
If I let the eating disorder get in the way of a possible treatment for my depression I am in a no win situation
I just think if one is severely ill whether mental illness or physical that gaining some weight from a medication that cures the ailment is an irrational reason not to take it. There is a big difference between being unhappy about being overweight and being depressed.
Posted by bridgey1128 on December 18, 2004, at 23:04:16
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds --and weight » banga, posted by iris2 on December 18, 2004, at 18:37:57
well I consider a size 6 or 8 to be very thin so for you to be upset about gaining weight is different than say...me at a size 20. I am sure your perception of having a "big stomach" might be so for you but I am sure those around you is not such, especially if you are like you say, a size 6 or 8. But like you said, it's as much an eating disorder as well. I have never had an eating disorder, I have just been overweight. If I were as thin as you to begin with I don't think I would be as upset about gaining a few pounds but I guess it would depend on how thin I had always been. If I had always been small then it would definitely upset me to suddenly gain a whole lot of weight caused by medication. I have been on both sides of the scale. I lost 90lbs after having my son and then gained it back when I got pregnant with my daughter! ACK! I am still trying to lose it 3 1/2 years later and finally getting it done. I guess I would have to weigh the odds if I were actually in someone elses shoes.
Posted by merry on December 19, 2004, at 0:30:33
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds --and weight, posted by bridgey1128 on December 18, 2004, at 23:04:16
I'm bipolar. I take 300mg wellbutrin to take care of the depression. It helps, but it makes me irritable. I have to take xanax to counteract that irritability. The topomax I take keeps my moods stable. Yeah right! Things are not so stable at this time. I'm still feeling all crazy. I really feel I need an adjustment somewhere. Whether it's the wellbutrin that pooped out on me or I need to boost up on the topomax. But I have to wait till next week and next week seems like 6 weeks away. Going BONKERS!!!!
Posted by rainy on December 19, 2004, at 9:23:19
In reply to wellbutrin, posted by merry on December 19, 2004, at 0:30:33
Hate that feeling! Can you get away for a good hard walk or run, merry? How about a well placed snack? Yesterday I staved off an anxiety attack by some shaved swiss cheese on thin crisp whole wheat cackers and a big glass of V8. (Ugh that sounds like a Helpful Hint.)
Is there anything you can let go? I know it's hard around the holidays but I'm doing it anyway, even though it's embarrassing to do so and sometimes makes it hard for other people, which smarts for a bit. Otherwise I'd be double bonkers, despite going up on Topamax. Or maybe because of, boy does that stuff make me mean.
When I see the pdoc afer Christmas I'm going to ask for another mood stabilizer to augment Top. 200 mgs Wellbutrin is about all I can handle--300 is crazy making, and Klonopin can be addictive or lose its punch, hence the cheese and crackers.
Check out the alternative board--there are some suggestions there that might be helpful. I'm scarfing down a capsule of Omega 3 fish oil, too, but it's too soon to see if that helps.
Keep us posted
Bonkers II
rainy
Posted by rainy on December 19, 2004, at 10:04:54
In reply to Re: wellbutrin » merry, posted by rainy on December 19, 2004, at 9:23:19
I'm sorry, merry. Too many suggestions, all about rainy. Hang in there and let us know how things work out for you.
Best
rainy
Posted by iris2 on December 19, 2004, at 11:25:20
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds --and weight, posted by bridgey1128 on December 18, 2004, at 23:04:16
Thanks for the response. I was trying to understand why I ws so upset over what people were saying about not gaining weight on an antidepressant and where they were coming from as compared to my own warped thoughts. You seem quite down to earth when you explain where you are coming from.
Posted by banga on December 20, 2004, at 10:06:04
In reply to Re: Bipolar meds --and weight, posted by iris2 on December 19, 2004, at 11:25:20
Just as you said, of course we all have differences in our situation! and I can understand your struggles.I apologize if my comments upset you. That's why in my post I started with a caveat that you have to first take stock of whether something else is feeding a fear of gaining weight. Just like any other difficulty, eating disorders can lead to exaggerated worries that need to be serioudly examined and checked with reality. With depression too you have to evaluate whether your perception/fears are warranted.
I just react a little when some say hey whats the big deal to gain weight---especially psychiatrists. And as someone else said, gaining say 10% of your weight is one thing, gaining 20-50% (even 90% for some!) when you are already at your ideal or even a little over it is worrysome.
I wish you all the best.
Posted by bridgey1128 on December 20, 2004, at 16:08:42
In reply to Re: Weight and meds--iris2, posted by banga on December 20, 2004, at 10:06:04
I just don't want to be fat either. ;) So I guess part of it is down right vanity and part of it is health.
Posted by rainy on December 20, 2004, at 16:28:27
In reply to Re: Weight and meds--iris2, posted by bridgey1128 on December 20, 2004, at 16:08:42
I just don't want to work--I'm so sick of cutting carbs, calories and "paying attention" to what I eat and being hungry--I'd like to just not worry about it. I've been weight obsessed since I was 11 years old, maybe younger and was buying Chubbette clothes at Montgomery Wards. I don't want to take medications now that haven't helped me feel better in the past, but have put me in adult Chubbettes. To quote you, Bridgey, Dur.
I know, though that I need to gain. I discovered this morning that I've lost four pounds without trying and I don't think it's because I've gone up by 25 mgs on Top for two weeks. I haven't changed eating or exercise patterns and it's a little freaky. But I want to gain it back naturally, not by some chemical change of metabolism that I won't be able to control. Go figure.
Have any of you had a pdoc fire you for noncompliance or the more pc term, "non-concordance?" If so, then what did you do? I'm afraid I'm going to get kicked out for inventing my own plan instead of taking her damn abilify, even though I told her I wouldn't without researching it. It is difficult to be a person in relationship.
rainy
Posted by bridgey1128 on December 20, 2004, at 18:00:28
In reply to Re: Weight and meds--iris2, posted by rainy on December 20, 2004, at 16:28:27
IF she "fires" you for noncomplience of your own body then I should say good riddance! She has no right to force you to take something you don't feel comfortable taking without researching it thoroughly first. If she does, then she isn't a very good Dr. I wouldn't worry about what your Dr thinks. Research it. If you don't like it, then tell her to pick something else. If she doesn't like it, and "fires" you then I think that would be rather unethical. I would equate that with someone picking up their toys and going home because they don't play by their rules. Let's hope she won't do that and will be understanding about the way you feel.
Posted by rainy on December 20, 2004, at 19:32:44
In reply to Re: Weight and meds--iris2, posted by bridgey1128 on December 20, 2004, at 18:00:28
yeah, well, this is one of the reasons I'm beginning the search for a new pdoc. The need to know and "my fears" about medication are "tying her hands" which makes me uncomfortable and I'm sure it frustrates her. It probably also impedes my progress, because as we've been discussing, when weight, lizard tongue and hair falling out issues emerge vs depression and hypomania of the irritable, foot in mouth variety, what do you do? Catch 33.
Gripe gripe gripe.
I always feel better when I read a novel or something so I'm going to go do that. Thanks for support, Bridgey. I think she's a good doctor, she just doesn't know what to do with someone who thinks she's her peer.rainy
Posted by rainy on December 21, 2004, at 6:12:11
In reply to Re: Weight and meds--iris2, posted by bridgey1128 on December 20, 2004, at 18:00:28
A long time ago I promised Redscarlet a web address that has med information: www.mcmanweb.com. John McMan also publishes a free newsletter that I've found interesting and useful called "McMan's Depression and Bipolar Weekly". His main focus seems to be on medications and research, all written in reader friendly language. He's very much an advocate for us, being bipolar himself. His last letter which came out a few weeks ago explained that he's almost through with a book (can't remember exactly what it's about, dopamaxed this morning) so the newsletter is on hold for now. I trust what this guy has to say.
rainy
Posted by redscarlet on December 21, 2004, at 13:28:35
In reply to Re: Weight and meds--iris2, posted by rainy on December 21, 2004, at 6:12:11
> A long time ago I promised Redscarlet a web address that has med information: www.mcmanweb.com. John McMan also publishes a free newsletter that I've found interesting and useful called "McMan's Depression and Bipolar Weekly". His main focus seems to be on medications and research, all written in reader friendly language. He's very much an advocate for us, being bipolar himself. His last letter which came out a few weeks ago explained that he's almost through with a book (can't remember exactly what it's about, dopamaxed this morning) so the newsletter is on hold for now. I trust what this guy has to say.
>
> rainy
rainy ~ Thank You so much, so nice of you... :-)I've had a couple of bad days and may need to up my Zonegran. But I'm just not sure, my doctor is out on vacation this week and even though some other doctor is filling in, he will not know me and I just don't feel like talking to someone I don't know and trying to tell them how I'm feeling....UGH !
I think I'll start taking an extra pill tonight and see how I feel in a day or two. I don't want to go through Christmas feeling like this. I don't think it will hurt me, just might not help thats all.Well, Thank You again for the website info... :-)
Posted by iris2 on December 21, 2004, at 14:28:44
In reply to Re: Weight and meds--iris2, posted by banga on December 20, 2004, at 10:06:04
Thank you for your response. I hope I too did not upset anyone. It is funny I have the same problem (if yours is a problem) with my family. They will not say be honest with me that I gained weight until it is a whole lot.
I hope everyone understands that the reason I posted all the personal stuff about my height and weight is so that people would understand me better and if they responded I would not feel like I was crazy so much.
Thanks again,
irene
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