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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 7510 to 7534 of 10407. Go back in thread:
Posted by dancingstar on November 1, 2004, at 14:05:45
In reply to doctors and prescriptions, posted by emmahoward on November 1, 2004, at 13:56:40
Nope. My target is at both the drug company and the medical community.
Even you do not know what the drug is doing to your body. I certainly didn't know until I hadn't taken Effexor for three full days.
Now that I am off of the drug I can see what kind of damage it does. My target is rightly placed. People smoking don't want to blame cigarettes for cancer either.
Posted by emmahoward on November 1, 2004, at 15:04:14
In reply to Re: doctors and prescriptions, posted by dancingstar on November 1, 2004, at 14:05:45
tylonol and ibuprophen are bad for the liver but they dont tell you that, even taking too many vitamins (aside from vit C) can build up in ur system and be 'bad' for your body... there are many side effects and many problems with so many tablets and medications but the thing with effexor is that its helping people, and theres a tiny percentage of people (that all seem to be posting here), that are probably taking it wrong, or its just not the right drug for them and they are experiencing bad side effects. Ive been explained what effexor does to the brain, that it works on 2 neuro transmitters and I was informed of the possible side effects. Its been helping me, this time, because I have a good doctor who knows what hes doing. He admits to never prescribing over 75mgs because he knows it turns people into vegetables and has great sucess in prescribing the drug in the proper way, in smaller quantities. I think anyone concerned about the drug shouldnt listen to people in these threads who are dead set against it because the ones who have had a good experience on it are off living their lives and not thinking much about it. To them, its a good drug, and its done its job well. Notice there are no threads about arthritic drugs, or drugs prescribed for diabetes, or any other medical problems because the side effects are a given. With depression and anxiety, its too easy to attack the drug companies because its assumed we have a 'choice'. I dont believe that. When your depressed, the only good choice is to seek help and if the drug in question doesnt respond well (meaning it has a few side effects) then change and find a new one but dont try to scare away people who need the drug who will benifit from it. You in fact dont know what its doing in your body, you are not a scientist, and side effects are not going to kill you. I think people should direct their anger at the doctors who dont know how to prescribe drugs, and not the drugs themselves.
Posted by dancingstar on November 1, 2004, at 15:13:35
In reply to Re: doctors and prescriptions » dancingstar, posted by emmahoward on November 1, 2004, at 15:04:14
"He admits to never prescribing over 75mgs because he knows it turns people into vegetables."
This sentence says it all.
Some people were afraid that slavery should be abolished. People don't want you to speak against the cigarette companies. Yes, tylenol is very damaging to the liver. Your best defense for living a long, healthy life probably is to stay away from doctors, but that's another story. This particular drug needs to be taken off the market. It is unsafe for use. Nothing is going to stop me anyway. Besides, you guys that are taking it can't tell how damaging it is right now because you are in the middle of taking it. You need to find a better way. Bloodletting might be a better option. Have you considered leeches? It's right up there with the same level of barbarism.
Posted by yoopergirl on November 1, 2004, at 15:29:08
In reply to doctors and prescriptions, posted by emmahoward on November 1, 2004, at 13:56:40
I was on 150mg EffexorRX per day right from the start. I have chronic depression and prozac wasn't working for me very well any more and I had very little energy. I typed in Effexer Withdrawal and this website filled up at least the first page of my search. I was on Effexor for about 10 weeks now that I look at my calendar. My GP told me I could try it out and said nothing about going off slowly (I simply ran out of my samples before my follow up appt.) I have no health insurance so my doctor thought that the free samples would give me enough of an idea of whether this medicine would work for me or not. I guess I got scared because I feel so weepy and creepy...I don't mean to scare anybody about the drug but if you do try it do it slow and low dose.
Posted by jujube on November 1, 2004, at 15:39:02
In reply to Re: doctors and prescriptions, posted by dancingstar on November 1, 2004, at 15:13:35
This debate could go on forever, and likely will. I understand that you are vehemently opposed to Effexor, and that is your right. However, others have, and will continue, to benefit from the drug. I think it is irresponsible and dangerous for a layperson to advice, no order, another to stop taking medication prescribed by a doctor and flush the medication down the toilet. A more responsible person would share their own experience and advise the person to discuss their concerns about side effects, both in the short-term and after long-term use, with their doctor. The poster who is now scared of this medication could well be in a vulnerable position, particularly if being treated for depression and anxiety conditions. You don't know the mental state of the individual. You don't know if that particular person has suicidal tendancies or ideation. You don't know how scared and vulnerable and how much pain a person is when they seek treatment for a depressive disorder. I understand and appreciate your overwhelming distaste for this drug. And your posts are useful to add to the wealth of information a person can gather on particular medications. However, please be careful in being so adamant in telling another to stop their medication. With all due respect, you are not trained or qualified to do so.
As for cigarette companies, I may be mistaken, but I think their have been wrongful death lawsuits or something like in the past. In Canada, the government has actually gone after the tobacco companies, and now requires that all cigarette packages have warning labels (quite graphic actually) associated with smoking. Some sporting events can not be sponsored by cigarette companies, etc.
Tamara
> "He admits to never prescribing over 75mgs because he knows it turns people into vegetables."
>
> This sentence says it all.
>
> Some people were afraid that slavery should be abolished. People don't want you to speak against the cigarette companies. Yes, tylenol is very damaging to the liver. Your best defense for living a long, healthy life probably is to stay away from doctors, but that's another story. This particular drug needs to be taken off the market. It is unsafe for use. Nothing is going to stop me anyway. Besides, you guys that are taking it can't tell how damaging it is right now because you are in the middle of taking it. You need to find a better way. Bloodletting might be a better option. Have you considered leeches? It's right up there with the same level of barbarism.
Posted by Tyroneous1 on November 1, 2004, at 15:52:17
In reply to Re: doctors and prescriptions » dancingstar, posted by jujube on November 1, 2004, at 15:39:02
It's really relative to one's own experience with any drug. If one has a good experience, the drug must be good. Right? I've had a bad experience with Effexor @ 75 mgs per day so I'm not going to go out and lie to people. The brain shivers and night sweats are the worst of it. People wouldn't take the time out of their day to post things on here if there wasn't something seriously wrong. Regardless of what kind of experience anyone has had with any drug, one must respect the individual's voice that is concerned for their own health.
Posted by dancingstar on November 1, 2004, at 15:56:23
In reply to Re: doctors and prescriptions » dancingstar, posted by jujube on November 1, 2004, at 15:39:02
By all means, if someone has a doctor, great; seek their advice.
If you don't or if you are just now seeking treatment, stay away from Effexor. No one needs this kind of aggravation or physical pain. It is a truly dangerous drug.
I ADAMANTANTLY MAINTAIN THAT NO ONE IS TRULY "BENEFITING" FROM THIS DRUG IN THE LONG RUN.
You may receive temporary relief from the symptoms of depression or anxiety, but you have no proof that they do not become worse in the long run; do you?> This debate could go on forever, and likely will. I understand that you are vehemently opposed to Effexor, and that is your right. However, others have, and will continue, to benefit from the drug. I think it is irresponsible and dangerous for a layperson to advice, no order, another to stop taking medication prescribed by a doctor and flush the medication down the toilet. A more responsible person would share their own experience and advise the person to discuss their concerns about side effects, both in the short-term and after long-term use, with their doctor. The poster who is now scared of this medication could well be in a vulnerable position, particularly if being treated for depression and anxiety conditions. You don't know the mental state of the individual. You don't know if that particular person has suicidal tendancies or ideation. You don't know how scared and vulnerable and how much pain a person is when they seek treatment for a depressive disorder. I understand and appreciate your overwhelming distaste for this drug. And your posts are useful to add to the wealth of information a person can gather on particular medications. However, please be careful in being so adamant in telling another to stop their medication. With all due respect, you are not trained or qualified to do so.
>
> As for cigarette companies, I may be mistaken, but I think their have been wrongful death lawsuits or something like in the past. In Canada, the government has actually gone after the tobacco companies, and now requires that all cigarette packages have warning labels (quite graphic actually) associated with smoking. Some sporting events can not be sponsored by cigarette companies, etc.
>
> Tamara
>
>
> > "He admits to never prescribing over 75mgs because he knows it turns people into vegetables."
> >
> > This sentence says it all.
> >
> > Some people were afraid that slavery should be abolished. People don't want you to speak against the cigarette companies. Yes, tylenol is very damaging to the liver. Your best defense for living a long, healthy life probably is to stay away from doctors, but that's another story. This particular drug needs to be taken off the market. It is unsafe for use. Nothing is going to stop me anyway. Besides, you guys that are taking it can't tell how damaging it is right now because you are in the middle of taking it. You need to find a better way. Bloodletting might be a better option. Have you considered leeches? It's right up there with the same level of barbarism.
>
>
Posted by dancingstar on November 1, 2004, at 15:58:52
In reply to Re: doctors and prescriptions, posted by Tyroneous1 on November 1, 2004, at 15:52:17
The point is well taken.
I have nothing to gain by warning people; nothing except your thinking that I am foolish.
Posted by jujube on November 1, 2004, at 15:59:08
In reply to Re: doctors and prescriptions, posted by yoopergirl on November 1, 2004, at 15:29:08
Try not to be too scared. The withdrawal can be quite bad for some. Perhaps you should really consider getting to your doctor, explaining to the doctor what you have learned about withdrawing from Effexor from your own research, and see if the doctor can give you some more sample packs so that you can slowly wean yourself off. Others have said that a short round of Prozac can help reduce the withdrawal syndrome. So that's another option. It is true that doctors don't seem to be fully aware just how devasting the withdrawal can be, which is unfortunate.
I hope you start to feel better soon.
Tamara
> I was on 150mg EffexorRX per day right from the start. I have chronic depression and prozac wasn't working for me very well any more and I had very little energy. I typed in Effexer Withdrawal and this website filled up at least the first page of my search. I was on Effexor for about 10 weeks now that I look at my calendar. My GP told me I could try it out and said nothing about going off slowly (I simply ran out of my samples before my follow up appt.) I have no health insurance so my doctor thought that the free samples would give me enough of an idea of whether this medicine would work for me or not. I guess I got scared because I feel so weepy and creepy...I don't mean to scare anybody about the drug but if you do try it do it slow and low dose.
Posted by jujube on November 1, 2004, at 16:11:59
In reply to Re: doctors and prescriptions, posted by Tyroneous1 on November 1, 2004, at 15:52:17
I agree. I myself am no an advocate for Effexor. I had a bad experience while on it, and stopped taking it after discussing it with my doctor. However, I think it is inappropriate to outright advise someone to stop taking a medication. This is a decision that needs to be made in consultation with a qualified medical professional. This site is a wonderful source of knowlege, information and real-life experiences, and can be extremely useful in helping someone decide whether a drug is appropriate for them or not. However, there is a difference in providing useful information and fear-mongering and doctor bashing, and I think there have been some threads in this post that come close to fear-mongering. Sorry, just my opinion.
Tamara
> It's really relative to one's own experience with any drug. If one has a good experience, the drug must be good. Right? I've had a bad experience with Effexor @ 75 mgs per day so I'm not going to go out and lie to people. The brain shivers and night sweats are the worst of it. People wouldn't take the time out of their day to post things on here if there wasn't something seriously wrong. Regardless of what kind of experience anyone has had with any drug, one must respect the individual's voice that is concerned for their own health.
Posted by Tyroneous1 on November 1, 2004, at 16:21:39
In reply to Re: doctors and prescriptions » Tyroneous1, posted by jujube on November 1, 2004, at 16:11:59
Call it whatever you would like... Fear-mongering or whatever. If trained health professionals are trained on spurious data and incomplete trial results, then their guess is no more qualified than mine. Their advice is no more substantial than mine. Each person has to do whatever they feel but they need to be aware of the dangers. Because dangers are present doesn't make one's concerns "fear-mongering." Telling you that your ears will fall off if you take Effexor without any substantiated data is "fear-mongering."
Posted by dancingstar on November 1, 2004, at 16:33:25
In reply to Re: doctors and prescriptions » yoopergirl, posted by jujube on November 1, 2004, at 15:59:08
From what I've read by other posters, it may not have helped you all that much to have cut back slowly...just prolonged the pain.
You will be okay. Fortunately, you weren't taking Effexor all that long. Now, here is where I shouldn't really be advising you cause I have zero medical background, but the 5-HTP and the SAMe-400 (Jarrow, manufacturer) just might assist you in feeling better from a depression standpoint if it isn't something that is extremely overwhelming, just moderate. They definitely help your mood, especially while you are feeling all funky and going through this drama. If someone wants to criticize me, it is that recommendation that I should get blasted for. The SAMe comes with a warning that it shouldn't be taken by people who are bipolar right on the box and a few other things. Please read the warnings to make sure that it is something that you can take and that you don't have any drug interactions that make it unsafe for you. You can get it at Whole Foods or any health food store. I found it to be especially helpful.
Posted by jclint on November 1, 2004, at 16:50:04
In reply to Re: doctors and prescriptions, posted by dancingstar on November 1, 2004, at 15:13:35
"It is unsafe for use. Nothing is going to stop me anyway. Besides, you guys that are taking it can't tell how damaging it is right now because you are in the middle of taking it. You need to find a better way. Bloodletting might be a better option. Have you considered leeches? It's right up there with the same level of barbarism."
Come on dancingstar... you are seriously verging on hysterical here. I worry that this board paints a strongly biased picture of withdrawal - I would like to add again that I am on day 4 of withdrawal and feeling fine, in fact, less lethargic than usual. And what you said about helping people in the long term I find ludicrous... you seem to forget that effexor is not only prescribed to chronic depressives (who I admit will probably not be 'cured' permanently) but to average people to help them through unusually grim circumstances. In these cases, an anti-depressant is not prescribed to treat a lingering illness, but to give support during a hard time. Therefore if it works, its implications for the patient's furure are irrelevant as it provides a chance for the circumstances to pass.
Posted by dancingstar on November 1, 2004, at 17:09:50
In reply to Re: doctors and prescriptions, posted by jclint on November 1, 2004, at 16:50:04
I'm glad to hear of one person that hasn't had trouble when they stop taking the drug; though even you profess to having more energy without it than you did while you were taking it.
I don't appreciate your calling my reaction "hysterical." For over four weeks I wasn't able to work because I was so ill. It doesn't seem as though many people stop taking Effexor once they begin to take it, but I am going to attend a symposium to find out more about things like that this weekend. While it is possible that the intense reaction to withdrawal from Effexor doesn't occur in everyone, it happens often enough for the medical community to be more aware of it than they are at this time. And since we don't seem to know to whom this devastating withdrawal is going to happen, why would anyone want to risk it happening to them?
Your lack of empathy and humour in noting that my comment verges on the hysterical makes its own kind of chilly statement.
Posted by jclint on November 1, 2004, at 17:27:20
In reply to Re: doctors and prescriptions » jclint, posted by dancingstar on November 1, 2004, at 17:09:50
I'm sorry if I caused offence. I do have a lack of empathy, as I obviously have not been subjected to the suffering people like you have. My issue is that by demonising the withdrawal to the extent you do, IMO, is destructive rather than constructive. Especially as there are people here seemingly uneducated about the these extreme reactions - your posts imply that your reaction was a normal one. One again, I don't mean to create hostility here, but I hope you can see my side of the equation also. J
> I'm glad to hear of one person that hasn't had trouble when they stop taking the drug; though even you profess to having more energy without it than you did while you were taking it.
>
> I don't appreciate your calling my reaction "hysterical." For over four weeks I wasn't able to work because I was so ill. It doesn't seem as though many people stop taking Effexor once they begin to take it, but I am going to attend a symposium to find out more about things like that this weekend. While it is possible that the intense reaction to withdrawal from Effexor doesn't occur in everyone, it happens often enough for the medical community to be more aware of it than they are at this time. And since we don't seem to know to whom this devastating withdrawal is going to happen, why would anyone want to risk it happening to them?
>
> Your lack of empathy and humour in noting that my comment verges on the hysterical makes its own kind of chilly statement.
Posted by corafree on November 1, 2004, at 17:47:20
In reply to Re: Going slow isnt good???? Help!!!, posted by Jubilee on November 1, 2004, at 2:34:21
Jubilations and thanks to our higher power who heard the prayers of peeps here on the board and your loved ones!
Do you plan to remain on SAMe-400 and the complete program of Enzymatic Therapy From Fatigued to Fantastic? I mean is it a daily routine now, or will you d.c.? SAMe-400 was on Dancingstar's list; DS are you continuing the program for a period of time, or is it a lifelong program?
I suffer from fibromyalgia...and I take it that's what you're referring to?
Do you think following your 'clean out your bod' program while on Eff-XR, as you all know it is still working very well for me, would be good?
I increased my Eff-XR for two days and haven't had a panic attack either day.
You might post your experience on alternatives. I read post there re: chromium at h.s. helping panic attacks. Too broke to start spending $, but keep saved, ready to print when can afford cartridge .. keep well cf
Posted by dancingstar on November 1, 2004, at 18:06:35
In reply to Re: Going slow isnt good???? Help!!!, posted by corafree on November 1, 2004, at 17:47:20
Hi Corafree,
I think that I will take this for as long as it works or until I hear that I shouldn't. The Enzymatic Therapy program is at its most effective at the three-month mark.
I have also concluded that I haven't been getting the proper nutrition until now because I have been fighting so hard to keep my weight down...because of the EffexorXR. I am trying to add some high quality carbohydrates to my diet, like oatmeal and a little bit of brown rice, which I haven't done for three years. I've just eaten low carb/relatively low fat and still had a hard time keeping my weight below 140 at 5'6."
So far I've dropped to 130 without doing anything. My normal weight is 125ish.
Posted by dancingstar on November 1, 2004, at 18:14:01
In reply to Re: doctors and prescriptions, posted by jclint on November 1, 2004, at 17:27:20
That is the problem, I believe that you are wrong and that my reaction to withdrawal from the drug is more common than yours is.
If the average person taking the drug is, as you say, uneducated; my reaction is even more appropriate in that it will hopefully send people rushing off to their doctors demanding an explanation. Since their doctors know little about this, it is long past time for some further investigation.
Just because it didn't happen to you doesn't mean that the rest of the world shouldn't be protected from the potentiality of it happening to them. Even a sampling of this board is enough to know that it more than a rare occurance.
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 1, 2004, at 18:21:00
In reply to Re: doctors and prescriptions, posted by dancingstar on November 1, 2004, at 15:13:35
> Have you considered leeches? It's right up there with the same level of barbarism.
Please don't exaggerate.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by gardenergirl on November 1, 2004, at 18:30:06
In reply to Re: doctors and prescriptions, posted by dancingstar on November 1, 2004, at 15:13:35
Just fyi, leeches are actually used still in hospitals to facilitate blood flow for digit reattachments. They secrete a heparin which busts clots that inhibit good blood flow during healing.
Kind of gross, but hardly barbaric.
gg
Posted by dancingstar on November 1, 2004, at 19:20:27
In reply to Re: doctors and prescriptions » dancingstar, posted by gardenergirl on November 1, 2004, at 18:30:06
i stand corrected.
Posted by dancingstar on November 1, 2004, at 19:28:38
In reply to Re: please be civil » dancingstar, posted by Dr. Bob on November 1, 2004, at 18:21:00
That was meant as "humour." Doesn't anyone get a joke around here?
At any rate, I'm done with my warnings as far as this board goes. I'm off to more influential pastures. As we all know, $$ buys influence; so let's just see where we can get.
Best of luck to all of you that are trying to stop taking Effexor. You will feel better in time. Please don't let anyone tell you that you don't feel as badly as you do during this trying time. I will try to update that click-on thing so that if I find out any good information for you, you are able to get it from me.
Posted by dancingstar on November 1, 2004, at 19:53:29
In reply to Re: please be civil » dancingstar, posted by Dr. Bob on November 1, 2004, at 18:21:00
"He admits to never prescribing over 75mgs because he knows it turns people into vegetables."
I still cannot believe that I read this statement, which is what provoked the prior response which you objected to, (she wrote and sat for a moment with her hand over her mouth, still too shocked to be able to move from her position at the computer.)
But truly, if you all don't agree with me, that is your perogative. I may well question your thought process as to how this can ever be allowed, but I've done all that I can do here.
Posted by Tyroneous1 on November 1, 2004, at 21:44:48
In reply to Re: please be civil » dancingstar, posted by Dr. Bob on November 1, 2004, at 18:21:00
New to your board...applying to Medical school...not an addict...I am more of a concerned future health provider. Here's the question:
What do you think about the current state of affairs with the prescribing SSRI's and SNRI's? I know my background is not nearly as extensive as yours but the more I learn, the more argument seems valid that there are currently better treatments for depression, GAD, and Bipolar in the form of opiate antagonists combined with opiate agonists...i.e. Buprenorphine and Naltrexone OR EVEN (possibly) diphenoxylate. I would love your input.
Posted by emmahoward on November 2, 2004, at 4:05:52
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
I wrote that post because I wanted to leave my opnion of effexor and because i was thrilled that I had the chance to try it again after a failed try.
I did find your reply very hostile and negative esp because I am new to these threads and was only hopeing to make a couple points:
Effexor or any ad shud not be prescribed by a GP
and by selecting a doctor thats informed and a good psychaitrist helps ALOT.
I read on here that a girl was prescribed 150 mgs immidiatly. Eek! Yes i did already say that my doctor has admitted that anything over 75 mgs turns ppl into vegetables. Taking too much of any drug will do that, not only effexor. Also, taking it too fast, brings on side effects and at the wrong time can also add to bad side effects, you have to take it at exaactly the same time every morning..
Ill reinstate that I was put on 35.7 for a long time. Now, its been weeks and im not quite up to 75 mgs yet, but have been told to start bring it up a little bit at a time. My doctor is informed. Along with helping me take my drug at the same time every day (important) he monitors the other drugs I take and my diet and excersize. He wont let me finally up my dose completly (im still breaking the capsule in half and divdeing it) until im done my next period because he KNOWS what kind of mental effect that may have on me.
Having an INFORMED doctor who listens and properly monitors a patient can make a world of difference. I have had NO side effects, and even on this small dose I am still on, life is completly different. Had I stayed with my GP, i might have been up to 200 mgs by now. As my new doctor does with all his patients, he wont prescribe over 75 mgs, and he only does this during winter because winter is a tough time of year.
I told him about this thread and wot I read posted about the 'withdrawls' and 'bad side effects' and he told me to stay offline. lol. I asked him if I am going to experience 'brain freezes' 'eye before brain experiences' 'night sweats' 'passing out' and any horrible effects like that when the time comes to get off the drug and he has assured me that this wont happen, that he has taken alot of people off the drug the proper way and no one has gone through anything of the sort. Ive been through enough with him this far to believe what he says because going on the drug has been so easy I forget sometimes that Im even on an anti depressant. No symptoms. It took time, but suddenly, im clear headed, and I feel more normal then I have in a LONG time.
So before you intimidate new ppl on here because they are thinking about taking this drug, new ppl who are at that already frightened and intimidated, think about how many ppl this drug HAS helped. I know that I probably read one of your anti-effexor posts earlier on in the year at the very begining, and that might have helped me be scared of this drug as much as that quack doctor that started me on effexor too fast and too much. I can only thank god now that I got a second chance with this drug, and with the right doctor. Negative posts only frighten people away from something that might change their lives for the good... then whos the villan? Anti-effexor post ppl, or the drug companies whos job are to help ppl?
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