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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mmcconathy on September 30, 2004, at 12:39:30
Amphetamine is more effective than methamphetamine at raising dopamine levels in the prefrontal cortex. The current study tested the hypothesis that norepinephrine transporters are involved in this difference. Using microdialysis, dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin were measured in the rat prefrontal cortex after administration of methamphetamine or amphetamine, with and without perfusion of desipramine. Amphetamine raised norepinephrine levels more than methamphetamine did. Desipramine raised dopamine and serotonin levels but did not alter metabolite levels. Desipramine attenuated the increase in dopamine by amphetamine while increasing the dopamine released by methamphetamine. These data suggest that methamphetamine and amphetamine differ in altering prefrontal cortical dopamine levels and in interacting with norepinephrine transporters. It is proposed that amphetamine releases dopamine in the prefrontal cortex primarily through norepinephrine transporters, whereas methamphetamine interacts minimally with norepinephrine transporters.
Keywords
Amphetamine, dopamine, medial prefrontal cortex, microdialysis, methamphetamine, norepinephrineArticle ID: 484490
http://journals.kluweronline.com/article.asp?PIPS=484490I just thoguht it was intesting, amphetamine i didnt know releases more dopamine than methamphetamine.
Can i get some of your opinion's?
Thanks
Matt
Posted by utopizen on September 30, 2004, at 13:12:06
In reply to weird article about amphetamine methamphetamine, posted by mmcconathy on September 30, 2004, at 12:39:30
> > Can i get some of your opinion's?
>On a clinical level, this means absolutely nothing to me. Desoxyn (methamphetamine) is much cleaner for me, Adderall much more anxiety-provoking.
Posted by SLS on September 30, 2004, at 13:41:36
In reply to weird article about amphetamine methamphetamine, posted by mmcconathy on September 30, 2004, at 12:39:30
It is actually the norepinephrine transporter that facilitates dopamine reuptake in these areas.
- Scott
Posted by theo on September 30, 2004, at 14:43:29
In reply to Re: weird article about amphetamine methamphetamine, posted by SLS on September 30, 2004, at 13:41:36
Scott,
Have you had any experience with Adderall (XR) or Concerta?
I've never taken a stimulant before and my pdoc suggested she may put me on one and mentioned these two. My symptoms are mainly ADD not ADHD.
She will probably let me pick which one to try first and it seems a lot of folks talk about Adderall (XR) being smoother than Ritalin or Concerta.
Any input would be appreciated.
Posted by SLS on September 30, 2004, at 17:53:56
In reply to Re: weird article about amphetamine methamphetamine » SLS, posted by theo on September 30, 2004, at 14:43:29
Hi Theo.
> Have you had any experience with Adderall (XR) or Concerta?
I haven't tried either one. Adderall seems to be the drug doctors are going to first more recently. You might want to start a separate thread to get some more feedback or search the archives. Have you thought about Strattera?
- Scott
Posted by pablo1 on September 30, 2004, at 18:13:48
In reply to weird article about amphetamine methamphetamine, posted by mmcconathy on September 30, 2004, at 12:39:30
Hmm, there's a few things I don't understand in that.
What is a norepenephrine TRANSPORTER? I've heard dopamine converts to norepenephrine but not that it uses norep. pathways. I don't understand that.
Why are they using desipramine, a powerful norep. reuptake inhibitor, similar to Strattera? My pdoc says he thinks norep. has more to do with ADHD than dopamine but he didn't explain why. I think it's just cause some people respond well to strattera & he prefers to avoid "real" stimulants. Many more people respond to stimulants than strattera though so I think he's overemphasizing the importance of norep. Also the side effects are much worse and in my experience, the norep. meds all cause me problems but pure dopamine meds like amisulpride and ameneptine are much nicer without the icky side effects. I have a certain amount of anxiety & I think I've already got more than my share of noradrenaline. So still they are using norep. but the goal is prefrontal dopamine levels. Oviously these are related but I don't understand how. The article says that "Amphetamine raised norepinephrine levels more than methamphetamine did" and to me that's a problem so I probably would prefer meth to adderall. It sounds like they are saying meth works more with just dopamine and has little (or less) effect on norep and less effect on actual dopamine levels in that part of the brain. My notes say meth is a strong reuptake inhibitor and releaser for both norep & dopamine and releases seratonin also. Adderall is listed as a moderate reuptake inhibitor (no release) for both norep & dopamine. Ritalin also releases some norep. So yeah, I agree these are wierd findings. Maybe the effect they are describing is more in the prefrontal cortex versus effect on other parts of the brain or body? I don't know if their microdialysis measurement technique is the best or only way to measure these things.
Also the article states "Desipramine raised dopamine and serotonin levels but did not alter metabolite levels" I don't understand the distinction of "metabolite" levels or the significance.
> Amphetamine is more effective than methamphetamine at raising dopamine levels in the prefrontal cortex. The current study tested the hypothesis that norepinephrine transporters are involved in this difference. Using microdialysis, dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin were measured in the rat prefrontal cortex after administration of methamphetamine or amphetamine, with and without perfusion of desipramine. Amphetamine raised norepinephrine levels more than methamphetamine did. Desipramine raised dopamine and serotonin levels but did not alter metabolite levels. Desipramine attenuated the increase in dopamine by amphetamine while increasing the dopamine released by methamphetamine. These data suggest that methamphetamine and amphetamine differ in altering prefrontal cortical dopamine levels and in interacting with norepinephrine transporters. It is proposed that amphetamine releases dopamine in the prefrontal cortex primarily through norepinephrine transporters, whereas methamphetamine interacts minimally with norepinephrine transporters.
>
> Keywords
> Amphetamine, dopamine, medial prefrontal cortex, microdialysis, methamphetamine, norepinephrine
>
> Article ID: 484490
>
>
> http://journals.kluweronline.com/article.asp?PIPS=484490
>
>
>
> I just thoguht it was intesting, amphetamine i didnt know releases more dopamine than methamphetamine.
>
> Can i get some of your opinion's?
>
> Thanks
>
> Matt
Posted by mmcconathy on October 1, 2004, at 9:48:14
In reply to Re: weird article about amphetamine methamphetamine, posted by utopizen on September 30, 2004, at 13:12:06
Yea i've heard from Articles Desoxyn is smooth in its actions, which is ironic since its a strong from of its class.
I've thought of asking my pdoc about it, but i'm afraid becuase it doesnt have a good name among pdocs.
I take Dexedrine 45mg, its rough, i take a low dose of Amytal 50mg, to baseline anxiety, and it also knocks out the comedowns. I took Klonopin, and Ativan, and xanax, but i started having memory loss from them. My pdoc evetually wanted to try Amytal, which actaully makes information easy to recall.
I guess from the article it states ampehtamine works more on norepinehrine so maybe that what causes the anxiety.
Im going to ask my pdoc about Cylert, i heard its long acting and smooth. I dont know how my doc would repond if i asked about desoxyn, so ill just stick with Cylert.
Later....
Matt
Posted by utopizen on October 1, 2004, at 16:02:43
In reply to Re: weird article about/ Utopizen, posted by mmcconathy on October 1, 2004, at 9:48:14
cylert isn't worth it- liver issues make doctors unlikely to prescribe it.
Whe approaching your doc about Desoxyn, do what I did- calmly suggest that you'd like him to consider whether an alternative to your current treatment might help you. Clearly let him know that, like other amphetamines, Desoxyn is a known substance of abuse.
This will let your doctor realize you're not exactly trying to fly one past him. Druggies tend not to say "but this med is a known substance of abuse" when they ask for meds.
Posted by mmcconathy on October 1, 2004, at 20:03:08
In reply to Re: weird article about/ Utopizen, posted by utopizen on October 1, 2004, at 16:02:43
Well thank you, maybe it will be less rough than dex. Dexe feels like panax ginseng, with also the mental stimulation, but anxiety is created. Adderall is even worse....
I maybe will cut the amytal, it really makes me a sleep freak, im always "down".
Have you ever compared dexedrine with desoxyn? did you notice if they differed?
Thanks....
Matt
This is the end of the thread.
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