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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 41. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by linkadge on September 25, 2004, at 14:56:58
After ingesting a cup or two of coffee all my irrational fears seem to fade out the window.
It really calms me down.What does this mean ???
Linkadge
Posted by Stryker88 on September 25, 2004, at 20:01:28
In reply to coffee helps my irrational fears !! meaning ???, posted by linkadge on September 25, 2004, at 14:56:58
I can relate exactly to what you just said, coffee is a crutch to me, but there are many bad things about it. For one the coffee is only an artificial fix and it wears off, most of the time leaving you feeling more drained and exhausted,dehydrated than before.
Posted by Gabbix2 on September 25, 2004, at 20:45:42
In reply to Re: coffee helps my irrational fears !! meaning ???, posted by Stryker88 on September 25, 2004, at 20:01:28
>I'm sorry I don't know what it means, but I have the same reaction to coffee. Sometimes it actually makes me fall asleep.
Posted by iris2 on September 25, 2004, at 20:59:55
In reply to coffee helps my irrational fears !! meaning ???, posted by linkadge on September 25, 2004, at 14:56:58
Sounds odd to me. The only thing I could come up with is that because it is a stimulant perhaps it makes you feel better when it stimulates your thoughts. By this it indirectly has you thinking positive thoughts that promote the irrational fears to be in the backround of your thought process.
Does this make any sense to you?
irene
Posted by TenMan on September 26, 2004, at 1:00:05
In reply to coffee helps my irrational fears !! meaning ???, posted by linkadge on September 25, 2004, at 14:56:58
I agree linkadge. Coffee seems to make me more confident and social which is a big pro for a social phobic like myself. 300mgs. of wellbutrin and a couple cups of joe and I feel almost normal.:)
I have always attributed coffee's positive effects on my psyche to it's opoid attributes.
Posted by Stryker88 on September 26, 2004, at 2:38:52
In reply to Re: coffee helps my irrational fears !! meaning ??? » linkadge, posted by iris2 on September 25, 2004, at 20:59:55
I like the way i feel when for the first few minutes while drinking a cup, I just wish I could feel that way all the time, but the coffee wears off then you feel terrible. If there is a medication I could take that makes you feel energy like caffiene then i am on it.
Posted by linkadge on September 26, 2004, at 7:14:59
In reply to Re: coffee helps my irrational fears !! meaning ???, posted by Stryker88 on September 26, 2004, at 2:38:52
Its a warmth and a friendliness too.
Linkadge
Posted by ron1953 on September 26, 2004, at 7:43:30
In reply to coffee helps my irrational fears !! meaning ???, posted by linkadge on September 25, 2004, at 14:56:58
Maybe you should talk to your pdoc about a CNS stimulant (Dexedrine, Adderal, Provigil and others). They're longer lasting than caffeine.
Posted by Optimist on September 26, 2004, at 16:21:52
In reply to Re: coffee helps my irrational fears !! meaning ?? » linkadge, posted by ron1953 on September 26, 2004, at 7:43:30
Very interesting. I feel the same way. Caffeine works as an effective antidepressant for me. I feel more energetic, optimistic, motivated, and social. I have thought myself, if I could only feel like this all the time it would be great. I feel like I use it as a crutch though, which is not good.
I'm currently on 300mg of wellbutrin and the caffeine seems to be much more effective, but perhaps they work on different levels.
Posted by Mistermindmasta on September 26, 2004, at 17:13:15
In reply to coffee helps my irrational fears !! meaning ???, posted by linkadge on September 25, 2004, at 14:56:58
> After ingesting a cup or two of coffee all my irrational fears seem to fade out the window.
> It really calms me down.
>
> What does this mean ???
>
>
> Linkadge
The EXACT same thing happens to me. I think it's the result of stimulation of the prefrontal cortex which tends to lower input to the amygdala. Stimulants, SSRI's or benzos can lower amygdala (fear center of the brain) activity but all through different mechanism. It's actually quite an interesting thing to notice, when you realise that caffeine is known mostly for producing anxiety, not reducing it. But yes, I agree with you. One thing to take note to is that caffeine toxicity is associated with anxiety, whereas caffeine withdrawal is also associated with anxiety. However, the mechanisms are different.I think I want to make a dinstinction between fear and physical anxiety. I get jittery and shaky and all that when I use caffeine, but I would not be wrong to say that I feel less fear, more optimistic, energetic, interested, etc etc. It reduces fear but ups physical anxiety. I enjoy caffeine. The physical anxiety doesn't bring me down.
Studies have shown that caffeine withdrawal is associated with reduced dopamine (i forget what receptor + where) activity and this is what causes anxiety upon withdrawal. I would suspect that all of us who react positively to caffeine actually have underactive dopamine receptors and when we use caffeine we temporarily feel what normal people feel - no irrational fears, friendlier, etc.
Posted by Stryker88 on September 27, 2004, at 4:43:49
In reply to Re: coffee helps my irrational fears !! meaning ??, posted by Optimist on September 26, 2004, at 16:21:52
coffee/caffiene makes me able to focus on things were as normally i am uninterested, but this is only a temperary fix.
Posted by Bill LL on September 27, 2004, at 8:49:02
In reply to Re: coffee helps my irrational fears !! meaning ???, posted by TenMan on September 26, 2004, at 1:00:05
I take 20 mg of Lexapro and 120 mg of Strattera, but I don't feel really good until I take my daily pill of 200 mg caffeine (No Doze brand). For me it lasts just about all day.
Posted by iris2 on September 27, 2004, at 10:30:14
In reply to Re: coffee helps my irrational fears !! meaning ???, posted by Mistermindmasta on September 26, 2004, at 17:13:15
Based on this information would you suggest to someone who is anxious to perhaps drink a cup of coffee as a quick OTC fix?
irene
Posted by iris2 on September 27, 2004, at 10:52:29
In reply to coffee helps my irrational fears !! meaning ???, posted by linkadge on September 25, 2004, at 14:56:58
Linkadge,
Your post stimulated quite a discussion about the cons and mostly pros of coffee drinking.
It is said to make one more energetic, optimistic, motivated, have more social confidence, less depressed, promote warmth and friendliness and fade irrational fears.
And I always thought one was supposed to stay away from caffeine:)
I did learn recently that there is something (cannot remember what) in coffee that is not good for you. The person explained that caffeine was good for you but to drink coffee and not have this chemical one is supposed to always make it with a PAPER FILTER. The paper apparently filters out whatever this is. Just thought I'd put my two cents in.
Now I am convinced to start drinking a cup or so every day if for no other reason than to observe any potential positive outcome. I had stopped drinking caffeine altogether several years ago with the exception that if I start to get a migraine I drink it to shrink the blood vessels and it usually stops the migraine from coming on. I guess it is good for a lot of thing. One needs to realize these things are chemicals and can be of possible value and treat them as such.
irene
Posted by Bill LL on September 27, 2004, at 11:44:22
In reply to Re: coffee helps my irrational fears !! meaning ??? » linkadge, posted by iris2 on September 27, 2004, at 10:52:29
I just pasted an extract of an NIH study on rats.
Caffeine induces dopamine and glutamate release
in the shell of the nucleus accumbens
by
Solinas M, Ferre S, You ZB,
Karcz-Kubicha M, Popoli P, Goldberg SR.
Section of Preclinical Pharmacology,
Behavioral Neuroscience Branch,
National Institute on Drug Abuse,
National Institutes of Health Intramural Research Program,
Baltimore, Maryland 21224, USA.
J Neurosci 2002 Aug 1;22(15):6321-4ABSTRACT
An increase in the extracellular concentration of dopamine in the nucleus accumbens (NAc) is believed to be one of the main mechanisms involved in the rewarding and motor-activating properties of psychostimulants such as amphetamines and cocaine. Using in vivo microdialysis in freely moving rats, we demonstrate that systemic administration of behaviorally relevant doses of caffeine can preferentially increase extracellular levels of dopamine and glutamate in the shell of the NAc. These effects could be reproduced by the administration of a selective adenosine A1 receptor antagonist but not by a selective adenosine A2A receptor antagonist. This suggests that caffeine, because of its ability to block adenosine A1 receptors, shares neurochemical properties with other psychostimulants, which could contribute to the widespread consumption of caffeine-containing beverages.
Posted by Mistermindmasta on September 27, 2004, at 13:00:44
In reply to Re: coffee helps my irrational fears !! meaning ??? » Mistermindmasta, posted by iris2 on September 27, 2004, at 10:30:14
> Based on this information would you suggest to someone who is anxious to perhaps drink a cup of coffee as a quick OTC fix?
>
> ireneIt's VERY dependent on the situation. For example, I do not suggest drinking coffee for phobic anxieties, like if you're going to give a speech. I suggest drinking coffee especially for constant low grade free floating anxiety. It's a good temporary fix. Like, if you're stressed about finding a new job or stressed about how much you have to study for a test. You become much more optimistic and less scared to face difficult situations. Every day when I get my little caffeine buzz I lose my fear of little stresses and tasks that face me. It's good to turn a "stressful" future situation into a "challenging" one without needing an ounce of willpower. This is both good and bad...
Posted by woolav on September 27, 2004, at 14:53:13
In reply to Re: coffee helps my irrational fears !! meaning ???, posted by Mistermindmasta on September 27, 2004, at 13:00:44
I just want to say, I too drink coffee alot, for one the meds make me tired! And i do notice that when i am going to a social function,I either want an alcoholic drink or coffee beforehand. And I feel that coffee is the better choice of the two. It does get me more talkative and that is what ppl with SP need....
S
Posted by Optimist on September 27, 2004, at 15:02:34
In reply to Re: coffee helps my irrational fears !! meaning ???, posted by Mistermindmasta on September 27, 2004, at 13:00:44
I'm curious. Would adderal have similar effects to caffeine? Is there anybody that's been on both and can compare. I know they have similar effects. The fact that adderal stays in your system longer is a bonus.
Posted by Stryker88 on September 27, 2004, at 16:32:35
In reply to Re: coffee helps my irrational fears !! meaning ??? » linkadge, posted by iris2 on September 27, 2004, at 10:52:29
My daily caffiene intake has been raised since I started taking Effexor xr 150mg I guess becuase of the unmanagable drowsiness.
morning-16oz cup of coffee
lots of water
morning-rockstar/or monter energy drink
lots of water
aftrnon-2000mg Panax Ginseng
aftrnon-50mg No Doz
lunch -coke or pepsi 12 oz can
break -cup of coffee
night -cup of coffee
night -diet coke 12 oz can
sleep
Posted by Stryker88 on September 27, 2004, at 16:34:47
In reply to Re: coffee helps my irrational fears !! meaning ??? » linkadge, posted by iris2 on September 27, 2004, at 10:52:29
This info was written by a Dr. Mcdougall.
http://www.nealhendrickson.com/mcdougall/2004nl/040700coffeepf.htm
Posted by Optimist on September 30, 2004, at 20:15:21
In reply to Re: coffee helps Dr's article linklots of info, posted by Stryker88 on September 27, 2004, at 16:34:47
So... I was wondering. If I feel at my best with caffiene in my system what other drugs may be a better substitute?
I'm currently on 300mg of wellbutrin SR per day along with 1800mg of St. John's Wort. I take some tyrosine in the mornings or before a workout sometimes as well. Usually in dosages around 3 grams.
Currently if I take all my meds and pop a caffience pill or two I feel great, pretty much a 100%, but this does not last. I will have lots of energy for a few hours then crash shortly afterwards.
Funny as it may sound, caffiene feels like the best antidepressant I've ever taken. I have a pdoc appt tomorrow and was thinking about asking her to augment my treatment but am a little unsure in which direction at this moment.
I feel like the SJW is contributing to my apathy. It makes me feel unambitious, and not really concerned with my lot in life. I'm currently unemployed and need to focus my energy and ambition in that direction.
I feel the SJW is adding some positive effects though. I have some mild social anxiety and it seems to help with that. I've always felt shy and it seems to take the edge off somewhat. I figure I may need some kind of serotonin action.
So any ideas here? I'm thinking of either effexor, or prozac to replace the SJW, to basically do the same job but be more activating. Basically something that can be more activating but won't konk out after a few hours.
Posted by zeugma on September 30, 2004, at 20:24:56
In reply to Re: coffee helps, where do I go from here?, posted by Optimist on September 30, 2004, at 20:15:21
Posted by iris2 on October 1, 2004, at 9:56:03
In reply to Re: coffee helps, where do I go from here?, posted by Optimist on September 30, 2004, at 20:15:21
I don't know you very well but you are working out you have some physical energy and motivation.The caffiene is probably giving you a short lived boost in energy and some concentration. Think about how many people drink coffee around the 4 o'clock slump when people start feeling mentally and physically tired at work and drink a cup to kind of invigorate them to get through the rest of the day. It does not sound like it is working exactly like an antidepressant for you.
Can you describe your apathy more? Do you feel like on your current medications you could not work? Could you concetrate? Are you having trouble getting to a job? In other words are you having trouble motivating?
I think it is a little difficult for me to understand because even though you are posting this message that you think you should perhaps change meds because: "...feel unambitious, and not really concerned with my lot in life. I'm currently unemployed and need to focus my energy and ambition in that direction."
On one hand you say you are not really concerned and on the other you say you need to focus your energy and ambition. It sounds like perhaps you feel like you have energy and ambition but are not able to focus it?A lot of questions I know. It does not sound like you are in a real bad place now but I might not be reading you very well that is why I asked a lot of questions.
It is unclear exactly what symptoms you want to ameliorate with a medicine change so I would not know how to advise you. I might not know anyway but perhaps others on the site would.
irene
Posted by iris2 on October 1, 2004, at 9:59:02
In reply to provigil, if you can tolerate it (nm) » Optimist, posted by zeugma on September 30, 2004, at 20:24:56
Okay, nothing to do with the content of the post. I am still and forever trying to figure out all the abbreviations. I might sound dumb but what does (nm) stand for?
irene
Posted by zeugma on October 1, 2004, at 18:48:47
In reply to Re: provigil, if you can tolerate it » zeugma, posted by iris2 on October 1, 2004, at 9:59:02
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