![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by AMD on August 28, 2004, at 20:29:18
Folks,
Does anyone know if bleach fumes, the kind you might breathe in while doing laundry for half-an-hour, cause permanent brain damage? I have this deathly fear of household product smells and last night I was in the garage cleaning things up while a load of whites was in the washer. I spent five minutes in there before I wanted to puke from the smell, and came back in 15 minutes when the smell had dissipated, spending another thirty or so. Did I cause damage? Reversible? Is this fear irrational? If I can't "smell" the bleach, does that mean it's OK? If I cover my mouth with a mask, does that protect one? Am I freaking out for no reason? I can't stop obsessing today that I my mind is lost from this ... ugh! How much of this would one expect before really seeing brain damage? How would I know?
a
Posted by chemist on August 28, 2004, at 20:42:37
In reply to Bleach! Fear of household cleaners!, posted by AMD on August 28, 2004, at 20:29:18
hi a. the answer is: relax. do not freak out. do not expect brain damage. do not pipette liquids by mouth. if it makes you feel better, go to Home Depot. purchase a $25 respirator mask that covers your mouth and nose, and be sure that the filters are approved for more than ash, smoke. wear this while doing laundry. alternatively: do whites in separate loads from colors. use a detergent that claims to ``whiten whites and make colors more vivid.'' do not drink the bleach. do not mix it with an acidifying agent. if you get some on you, do not worry, wash the area with water. all the best, chemist
> Folks,
>
> Does anyone know if bleach fumes, the kind you might breathe in while doing laundry for half-an-hour, cause permanent brain damage? I have this deathly fear of household product smells and last night I was in the garage cleaning things up while a load of whites was in the washer. I spent five minutes in there before I wanted to puke from the smell, and came back in 15 minutes when the smell had dissipated, spending another thirty or so. Did I cause damage? Reversible? Is this fear irrational? If I can't "smell" the bleach, does that mean it's OK? If I cover my mouth with a mask, does that protect one? Am I freaking out for no reason? I can't stop obsessing today that I my mind is lost from this ... ugh! How much of this would one expect before really seeing brain damage? How would I know?
>
> a
Posted by AMD on August 28, 2004, at 21:00:12
In reply to Re: Bleach! Fear of household cleaners! » AMD, posted by chemist on August 28, 2004, at 20:42:37
Thanks chemist. Yeah, of course I don't touch, drink, deliberately sniff the stuff -- I just worry about the breathing in of the fumes during regular household use. It sounds irrational, but I haven't yet found a way to cope with the fear. The other thing is, I can't avoid it. For example, if I'm at the gas station and accidentally breathe in some fumes, I'll freak. Nothing I could do to prevent that. The problem seems to be instead some psychosomatic and obsessive symptoms resulting from the worry. Hence anyone else last night would not have thought twice about it. But me, the moment I started thinking "uh oh, you breathed in some fumes," I get that dread in my head until I am worrying about it so much in actually interferes with my mental processes which, of course, I then turn around and blame on the fumes.
So, are these types of insults severely damaging to brain? I confuse breathing in some fumes with deliberant inhalent use, but I guess there is a big difference there.
a
Posted by chemist on August 28, 2004, at 21:18:33
In reply to Re: Bleach! Fear of household cleaners! » chemist, posted by AMD on August 28, 2004, at 21:00:12
hi a: sorry to hear about the OCD aspect. use of common - and, for that matter, uncommon - products that contain nasty chemicals is not something to fear as long as they are used as intended. there are exceptions. first off, inhaling chlorine will damage your esophagus and lungs. gasoline will do some brain damage, as will other inhalants. some things are marketed without warnings, and they could be fatal. for instance, if you are in the unenviable position of using a paint-stripper that contains methylene chloride, do not do it near an open flame. explosion is not as much a concern as the unwanted and truly dangerous formation of carbonic dichloride, also known as the chemical warfare agent phosgene. all the best, and be well, chemist
> Thanks chemist. Yeah, of course I don't touch, drink, deliberately sniff the stuff -- I just worry about the breathing in of the fumes during regular household use. It sounds irrational, but I haven't yet found a way to cope with the fear. The other thing is, I can't avoid it. For example, if I'm at the gas station and accidentally breathe in some fumes, I'll freak. Nothing I could do to prevent that. The problem seems to be instead some psychosomatic and obsessive symptoms resulting from the worry. Hence anyone else last night would not have thought twice about it. But me, the moment I started thinking "uh oh, you breathed in some fumes," I get that dread in my head until I am worrying about it so much in actually interferes with my mental processes which, of course, I then turn around and blame on the fumes.
>
> So, are these types of insults severely damaging to brain? I confuse breathing in some fumes with deliberant inhalent use, but I guess there is a big difference there.
>
> a
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 28, 2004, at 21:29:34
In reply to Re: Bleach! Fear of household cleaners! » chemist, posted by AMD on August 28, 2004, at 21:00:12
> So, are these types of insults severely damaging to brain?
No. Your liver is designed to take care of these things. In other cases, your natural antioxidant defenses are ready to step into the game. Passing exposure is no big deal. The smell of bleach is like being around a swimming pool....it can be irritating after a while, but your body will not be permanently harmed.
> I confuse breathing in some fumes with deliberant inhalent use, but I guess there is a big difference there.
>
> aYes, the degree of exposure is the critical factor. Sticking your face into a plastic bag with gasoline in it, and inhaling deeply over and over, is quite a different thing than catching a wisp of fumes drifting (and diluting) in the air.
I don't know what you might do to get past the almost phobic response to smells. Your nose connects directly to the limbic system, so emotional response to odours is rather beyond conscious control. If it's really a problem for you, I'm sure that certain kinds of cognitive retraining can help you to rationalize your vigilance to chemical smells.
In cases where exposure is anticipated, you might well consider a mask with activated carbon absorbent.
Lar
Posted by chemist on August 28, 2004, at 21:33:09
In reply to Re: Bleach! Fear of household cleaners! » AMD, posted by Larry Hoover on August 28, 2004, at 21:29:34
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 28, 2004, at 22:32:41
In reply to Two out of two chemists agree, AMD... (nm), posted by chemist on August 28, 2004, at 21:33:09
One of those chemists worked as a chemical tank truck driver for years. I've had extensive training in chemical exposure, and workplace safety around chemical vapours, and what you're describing is well within safety thresholds, which are based on long-term daily exposures. I train people in chemical safety, and I have no concern whatsoever about what you're describing. It may be unpleasant, but it isn't harmful.
Lar
Posted by AMD on August 28, 2004, at 22:40:25
In reply to Re: Two out of two chemists agree, AMD, and... » chemist, posted by Larry Hoover on August 28, 2004, at 22:32:41
Thanks both of you. This is exactly what I need to hear (for better or worse): reaffirmation that one-time, brief (under 30 minutes) exposure to cleaning bleach doesn't make one a vegetable and that, in fact, people work daily in such conditions and live healthy, happy lives.
Thanks for the responses.
a
Posted by chemist on August 28, 2004, at 23:16:52
In reply to Re: Two out of two chemists agree, AMD, and... » chemist, posted by Larry Hoover on August 28, 2004, at 22:32:41
...and the other one pipettes by mouth..... :) all the best, chemist
> One of those chemists worked as a chemical tank truck driver for years. I've had extensive training in chemical exposure, and workplace safety around chemical vapours, and what you're describing is well within safety thresholds, which are based on long-term daily exposures. I train people in chemical safety, and I have no concern whatsoever about what you're describing. It may be unpleasant, but it isn't harmful.
>
> Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 29, 2004, at 7:53:33
In reply to Re: Two out of two chemists agree, AMD, and... » Larry Hoover, posted by chemist on August 28, 2004, at 23:16:52
> ...and the other one pipettes by mouth..... :) all the best, chemist
I think I may be the only one who understands what you mean, dude. Never got the hang of the rubber bulb, eh? ;-)
Lar
Posted by chemist on August 29, 2004, at 10:14:56
In reply to Re: Two out of two chemists agree, AMD, and... » chemist, posted by Larry Hoover on August 29, 2004, at 7:53:33
> > ...and the other one pipettes by mouth..... :) all the best, chemist
>
> I think I may be the only one who understands what you mean, dude. Never got the hang of the rubber bulb, eh? ;-)
>
> Lar
>
not even the spiffy ones with multiple valves. kept missing the meniscus: you know how that can go...always way over the end-point...:) tjm
Posted by Racer on August 29, 2004, at 11:45:53
In reply to Re: Two out of two chemists agree, AMD, and... » chemist, posted by Larry Hoover on August 29, 2004, at 7:53:33
> > ...and the other one pipettes by mouth..... :) all the best, chemist
>
> I think I may be the only one who understands what you mean, dude. Never got the hang of the rubber bulb, eh? ;-)
>
> Lar
>
Not *quite* the only one...On a maybe hopeful note, though, there are a few household cleaners that I've always been a bit nervous about, as well as a few chemicals used around animals. After years of being a bit nervous -- within normal limits -- it finally crossed my mind to *find out* how risky they really were. Wow, what a concept. I did -- emailed a buddy who would be able to tell me, and he did. (And I thank him.) Now, in this case I wasn't at phobic level, but it still relieved my mind enough to know the facts about realistic risk that I can be much more blase about the stuff in question. I still take reasonable precautions -- rubber gloves when I use TSP, for example -- but I don't worry about things like whether or not I should be locking the cats up while I use it.
So, maybe sometimes asking the question and getting an answer really does help relieve the fear. At least it seems like a good start.
Posted by KaraS on August 29, 2004, at 14:08:02
In reply to Bleach! Fear of household cleaners!, posted by AMD on August 28, 2004, at 20:29:18
There are some alternatives you can try that are less toxic. Check out this chart:
http://www.wnrmag.com/supps/2002/aug02/altern.htm
Posted by AMD on August 30, 2004, at 13:15:17
In reply to Re: Bleach! Fear of household cleaners! » AMD, posted by KaraS on August 29, 2004, at 14:08:02
Er... what about hydrogen peroxide as found in whitening toothpastes? Dangerous to the brain? Or to the mouth?
I recently used Rembrant but got some ulcers on my tongue (canker sores), which I suspect were related. I've read that bleaching hair blonde has been shown to cause damage to the brain ... what about using or ingesting hydrogen peroxide as part of toothbrushing?
Now I'm just curious! :-)
a
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 31, 2004, at 7:18:31
In reply to Re: Bleach! Fear of household cleaners!, posted by AMD on August 30, 2004, at 13:15:17
> what about hydrogen peroxide as found in whitening toothpastes?
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups about toothpastes (and household cleaners) to Psycho-Babble Health. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/health/20040729/msgs/384528.html
Thanks,
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.