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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Camille Dumont on July 24, 2004, at 22:12:01
I'm wondering if anybody here who's been off of ADs for a while has noticed changes in their perceptions and feeling.
I've pretty much stopped the Effexor 300 and now I'm only on Celexa 20 and somehow I seem to feel things more "intensely".
It takes the form of silly things like feeling the urge to eat a very specific thing at a very specific momment and when I do I derive a really intense joy from it. Now I've been on meds for over 2 years now and it feels as if it had drawn a curtain on my feelings ... to sort of "tone them down" ... now everything seems so much more intense ... the pain, the joy and even the desires themselves ... as if I have more "drive" to fullfill my needs whereas before I could just ignore them and go on.
Has anybody felt similar feelings when comming off their meds .. did it last or was it only temporary?
Posted by sageblue on July 24, 2004, at 22:54:26
In reply to Feeling more intense?, posted by Camille Dumont on July 24, 2004, at 22:12:01
Camille,
I've definitely felt things more intensely off meds, even to the point of having my original symptoms sharply exaggerated during the withdrawal period.
I think this is definitely a negative aspect of antidepressants. Finding the best treatment can take trial and error -- to find a dose and medication that allows you to feel and also have normal ambitions, while eliminating the disabling symptoms you originally had.
As for feeling food cravings more often, I think this may be your brain trying to make more serotonin. It is created in part out of the amino acid tryptophan, which is increased in the blood when on consumes high-carbohydrate foods. There's a theory that this is why some women have PMS food cravings. Serotonin levels drop around the same time of the month, and women 'self-medicate' accordingly. You may be feeling this upon first withdrawing as your brain tries to make as much serotonin available as used to be.
On the other hand, although it doesn't sound like this is the case for you, people suffering from atypical depression usually _do_ eat more. How have you been handling these 'intense' feelingx?
Posted by HappyGirl on July 24, 2004, at 23:15:36
In reply to Feeling more intense?, posted by Camille Dumont on July 24, 2004, at 22:12:01
Hi:
In my case, 'intense' feelings is related to 'depressive' feelings.
In my guess, since you have the Celexa alone, then you might start experiencing some sort of 'depressive' episode. However, everyone reacts differently on different med. regimen, including cutting back any of the med. Thus, it's hard to tell. Just watch any change on your mood.BTW, it sounds to me like the effectiveness of the Effexor was completely gone when you went to the Celexa alone. Then, there were NO withdrawal symptoms, whatever. Because, the effectiveness of Effexor was completely gone in your system when you cut down the Effexor completely. The dosage of AD does not matter, ... this is based on my personal experience.
H.G.
Posted by Camille Dumont on July 25, 2004, at 1:47:56
In reply to Re: Feeling more intense?, posted by sageblue on July 24, 2004, at 22:54:26
Hmm... this is reall a strange situation. You see I went cold turkey (off both celexa and effexor) for a few days. My last dose of both was last saturday (july 17th) and I fought off the withdrawal (mainly dizzy and not feeling hunger until I became nauseous .. and being clumsy in general) but on Thursday it was just too much ... I felt like puking all the time, I was shivering one minute and then super hot the next so I caved and I popped a celexa and everything came back go nomal. Ever since Thursday I've thus only taken the celexa ... so I wonder .. was the withdrawal from the effexor or from teh celexa because right now, I have absolutely no withdrawal effects ... teh brain shivers are gone, I don,t have headaches, the clumsiness has stopped, etc.
I don't really see the "intense feelings" as being bad per say.It is difficult sometimes as i found out last week when I had to put down one of my pet rats ... but it was not unbearable and I doubt the meds would have made things much better anyway. I'm just a total sucker when it comes to animals.
The whole food craving thing makes sense in that since starting the meds, my diet sort of shifted itself away from anything related to meat or protein-packed stuff ... I became a total sugar addict and my diet consisted mainly of fruits / whole grain stuff / veggies and the occasional piece of cheese ... and LOTS of cofffee.
Now I find myself craving things like smoked meat, roasted chicken ... and tonight : steamed hot dogs with TONS of mustard on them. This is so "unlike" my normal self. I used to really dislike fatty / meaty things logved sugar packed stuff (when on the meds) whereas now the thought of say, eating a slice of pecan pie fills me with a nausea like feeling. Kind of weird but then agian, it might actually be good as I knwo my sugar addiction wasn't the best thing ever either.
Its as if instead of wanting sugar I want salty and vinegary-type foods. Hopefully I won't gain back what the effexor made me drop but I'm sort of expecting it.
All and all, I see the more intense feelings as a positive thing right now. Hopefully it will last a while ... I mean the "sad" parts are not fun but the "joyfull" parts are that much more enjoyable.
Posted by HappyGirl on July 25, 2004, at 8:41:56
In reply to Re: Feeling more intense?, posted by Camille Dumont on July 25, 2004, at 1:47:56
Hi:
In depression, 'Sleep' is a MOST important factor to judge whether your depression is stabilized or not. Most of cases, under the storm of Depressive epidoes, you are NOT able to 'sleep' soundly. This is a HUGE sign for depression.
Food Craving thing is a very common among depressive folks, ... eat either TOO much or TOO little. Some saying just one hamberger per day to survive. Then, the eating habit you need to be careful.
Overall, if those 'two' major areas would be covered with you, then your depression might be improved to the point you do NOT need AD in the future. However, you also need to consult with your pdoc. before any 'drastic' decision, like cutting back the Celexa completely.In my guess, ... you may still need a 'Baby dosage' of the Celexa, at least for few to several months.
H.G.
Posted by Camille Dumont on July 25, 2004, at 13:23:04
In reply to Re: Feeling more intense?, posted by HappyGirl on July 25, 2004, at 8:41:56
True ... for me in de depressive state basically some days I slept all day and some days I didn't sleep at all. As for food, I would only realise that I was hungry when I started to shake from the low sugar and feel nauseous.
Unfortunately, when it comes to doctors I'm sort of in a bad situation. This is Canada so healthcare is free but there is also a gross shortate of doctors and pdocs. I once was sent to the phosp ... by the ER doc who suspected MAJOR depression and the pdoc at the hosp basically sent me home with no meds, no reference and no advice xcept : if you feel suicidal again, go to the ER ... gee ... isn't that nice.
So anyway I finally got a family doctor (you can wait years before you get one) and my psychologist also recommended a psychiatrist who is in the private sector. She's a very nice lady but she also can't see me as a "regular" patient so I basically onlyl see her when my normal doctor gives me a reference to see her. She then sends her recommendations back to my doctor ... who puts them into practice ... or so I thought.
At one point she suspected psychotic features because I tend to see things that aren't there or interpret things the wrong way like a dark bag on the ground will seem like a cat to me or the reflection of light on a car will appear to me as a person leaning over the car and so on ... and sometimes its just plain insane like reading things wrong or seeing impossible stuff like a tiger walking down the street and what not.
So anyway, she recommended Seroquel for sleep ... you know the tiny 25mg dose at night ... and then eventually 50mg up to potentially 100mg. Turns out that didn't work, it made me into a zombie. Well lo and behold, my moron doctor thought it would be a good idea to give me zyprexa instead ... 5mg to begin with. To take the same methaphor as a friend of mine who's also a doctor (only not in the city I live in) ... seroquel is like a flimsy watergun where zyprexa is a huge bazooka gun when it comes to antypsichotics ...
So basically I was freaking out, having seizures, thinking that my doctor had tried to trick me into taking that stuff because he really thought I was crazy ... and what not ... really bad trip ... and to make things worse he never warned me of the potential side effects like the jerks, the difficulty speaking, etc ... I was utterly terrified when it happened to me in a staff meeting ... I was seizing (absence type seizures) and I could barely talk ... really awfull.
After that little episode I was pissed and demanded to see the recommendation from the psychiatrist and sure enough she NEVER recommended that ... it was just, I dunno, some sort of little fantasy of my doctor.
So since that little "incident" I find it very hard to trust anyting that doctor says. I only stay with him because I basically have no choice ... I really need a family doc and there aren't any other ones available in the region ... but my confidence in him is like zero. I haven't told him I ditched the Effexor ... cuz he says I'll need it for the rest of my life (which I don't agree with ... its more related to my bad habit of using schizoid defense mechanism which always end up not working) ... and I doubt he would support me in an attempt to reduce the meds. According to him, since I've been depressed before, there is a 85% chance that it will come back ... but what if I'm part of that 15% who won't get it again ... I dunno, I guess its partly to prove him wrong, partly to feel in crontro and partly because I'm plain subborn that I'm doing this.
But for sure I'm going to hang on to the Celexa for a while ... I'm jsut still so surprised that the withdrawal from the effexor was so tolerable ... I mean after hearing all those scary stories and my personaly experience of going off cold turkey by mistake over a weekend.
In all likelyhood, I think I'll wait till xmas is here to try and stop the Celexa .. I'll have a week or so off so I won't have to worry about work and it will give me the perfect excuse to escape all those nasty "family reunions" and "parties" which I totally hate.
Posted by HappyGirl on July 25, 2004, at 17:45:03
In reply to Re: Feeling more intense?, posted by Camille Dumont on July 25, 2004, at 13:23:04
Hi:
Even here, in USA, there are several different health care/insurace programs depending on what sort of 'health' insurance you've been carrying. A few of them are quite similar to the one about which you're talking, ... needs a primary doc's approval before approach a pdoc.
In my case, I am able to call and visit as often as I want to. Once, I needed to visit twice, even three times a week because the med. didn't do any 'trick' on me, that occurred years back when I was newly dx'ed with Bp II. But, nowadays, I go to the pdoc. once two month's unless I need to change one of meds. Then, frankly, ... I have a trouble of understanding on your situation as to a pdoc. and med. issues.In Canada, is/are there some 'Support' groups related to Mental problems? More likely, ... you may get more realistic and practical opinion/suggestions through Canadian Mental Support? Of course, here, 'Psycho-Babble' is the best among the best Support Groups on the Internet. However, you may need 'common' understanding and bonds to deal with your current situation through Canadian Health-Care in the region where you live?
Concerning the Celexa, I, too agree with you, because at least your current condition, you need the Celexa, ... at least 'minimum' dosage to alleviate your depressive symptoms, ... for your 'fragemtnal' sleep pattern, either 'too muc,' or 'too little' during the nights.
H.G.
This is the end of the thread.
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