![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 30. Go back in thread:
Posted by King Vultan on May 27, 2004, at 8:02:14
In reply to Exercise Making Me More Depressed/Irritable - HELP, posted by Survector on May 27, 2004, at 0:34:19
I guess all I can think of is that it is rebound depression off of the high you experience while exercising, similar to what can happen with amphetamines in some cases. I exercise frequently myself but am not sure I have much advice to offer, other than to possibly try exercising in the evenings. This is what I typically do, as I take my showers in the evening anyway to help me sleep, and it works out well to have a very light carbohydrate meal when I get home from work, wait half an hour to an hour, and go jogging.
However, I believe I am different from many who exercise in that I do not seem to achieve this "runner's high" that many experience, even going 6+ miles at a decent clip. The pain becomes more bearable after a while, and I feel a sense of accomplishment when done, and while I find it does clear my mind, reduce stress, etc., I don't believe I get the high that many people experience and crave. The exercise is something that I do look forward to, though.
Todd
Posted by linkadge on May 27, 2004, at 8:23:01
In reply to Exercise Making Me More Depressed/Irritable - HELP, posted by Survector on May 27, 2004, at 0:34:19
The only thing that I can think. And this happens with me, although I may be wrong.
When I exercise, I feel much better - a true, natural feeling of being well. After this wears off it hits me that I have to return to the artificial feelings of happiness that the drugs induce. I do feel very irritable because it is like I come so close to normality but just cannot stay there.
Anything like this ???
Linkadge
Posted by LastDyingWish on May 27, 2004, at 11:26:24
In reply to Re: Exercise Making Me More Depressed/Irritable - HELP, posted by linkadge on May 27, 2004, at 8:23:01
I experienced a similar reaction in my first 3 months of strength training. It varied upon time of day I would workout and also the mood I was in just before training. I do know that weight lifting causes testosterone to rise, but after that your T drops significantly, to a lower level than before you started lifting. For T regulation it is important to maintain the RCD for zinc, magnesium and B6. So a multivitamin would be beneficial.
Posted by Survector on May 27, 2004, at 11:44:42
In reply to Re: Exercise Making Me More Depressed/Irritable - HELP, posted by linkadge on May 27, 2004, at 8:23:01
> The only thing that I can think. And this happens with me, although I may be wrong.
>
> When I exercise, I feel much better - a true, natural feeling of being well. After this wears off it hits me that I have to return to the artificial feelings of happiness that the drugs induce. I do feel very irritable because it is like I come so close to normality but just cannot stay there.
>
> Anything like this ???
>
>
> LinkadgeUnforutnately, these were exactly the types of replies that I was trying to avoid (especially the very first one by Buckeye Fan, which was in my personal view, a steaming turd of an insult to my intelligence).
I can assure 'Buckeye Fan' that as I exercised over a period of time (years), I never developed any kind of 'adaptation' of sorts which caused my depressive reaction to subside. Your statement of, "The good news is that over time as the body re-adjusts to our increased exercise output...we feel BETTER" is simply not applicable - hence why I asked Chemist or Dr. Bob for their input instead of layperson armchair advice from someone who has never been in my shoes before. The most recent reply is probably the closest thing yet to what I've been looking for - but still isn't descriptive enough to match my problem.
I've exercised on and off for years at all intensities and types -- either isotonic (weight lifting) by itself or aerobic (running, etc.) by itself. The result has been the same. I realize full and well the benefits of exercise and this has nothing to do with why I made my initial posting. Someone with some decent understaning of human hormone interactions within the central servous system or someone who has *BEEN IN MY SHOES BEFORE*, please post a reply worthy of actually reading, instead of armchair advice from joe average who exercises every day without a problem and can't understand why I *DO* have a problem. Thanks in advance.
Posted by linkadge on May 27, 2004, at 12:30:48
In reply to Re: Exercise Making Me More Depressed/Irritable - HELP, posted by Survector on May 27, 2004, at 11:44:42
One other possibility is this. Exercise dramatically boosts PEA levels. Excessive PEA - especially if combined with other dopaminergics, can lead to bad anxiety, and anger.
Linkadge
Posted by Ilene on May 27, 2004, at 13:07:05
In reply to Exercise Making Me More Depressed/Irritable - HELP, posted by Survector on May 27, 2004, at 0:34:19
I never noticed *exactly* what you are talking about, but I never got any antidepressive benefit from exercise. I also discovered I have an unusual physiological response to exertion.
I swam regularly for about 11 years. I also did weights for part of that time, and took yoga classes for a couple of years. Sometimes I would feel better, especially from yoga, but when I was severely depressed I actually felt worse.
I was also getting what felt like the flu more and more often. It turned out to be chronic fatigue syndrome (unlikely to be your problem). However, it's triggered by a condition called neurally mediated hypotension (NMH), which can cause extreme post-exertional fatigue that is often delayed. I think the combination of depression and NMH *could* explain your problem. My symptoms are different from yours.
NMH is complicated to explain and actually not very well understood. It's presumed to be a malfunction of the autonomic nervous system in which your blood pressure falls instead of rises.
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~mecfs/general/nmh1.html
gives some information
Nearly everything I can find is in the context of CFS, except for some info. from Vanderbilt University on more severe dysautonomias.I.
Posted by Steeler Tookahn on May 27, 2004, at 17:36:55
In reply to Exercise Making Me More Depressed/Irritable - HELP, posted by Survector on May 27, 2004, at 0:34:19
I have definitely noticed a tendency to experience depression the next day after I work out particularly hard. When I really push myself beyond what is comfortable.
This tends to happen more when I'm in the middle of a depressive episode than when I'm feeling well but it happens nonetheless.
Don't get me wrong- every study (that I know of) shows that exercuse is an effective anti-depressant. Ultimtely exercise must be good for me too.
I think the depression after exercise problem is a simple case of a depressive response to extreme stress. Just my guess.
BTW: My doctor has noticed that some of her patients experience the same phenomenon. She is still a big beliver in exercise.
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 27, 2004, at 23:52:58
In reply to Re: Exercise Making Me More Depressed/Irritable - HELP, posted by Survector on May 27, 2004, at 11:44:42
> armchair advice from joe average who exercises every day without a problem and can't understand why I *DO* have a problem.
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel put down.
If you have any questions or comments about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
or redirect a follow-up to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Sharing something about your own issues and their possible role in your reaction might be an interesting exercise -- and might help others respond to you supportively.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Buckeye Fan on May 28, 2004, at 7:29:16
In reply to Exercise Making Me More Depressed/Irritable - HELP, posted by Survector on May 27, 2004, at 0:34:19
Dear Survector,
I am sorry I offended you...and I tried to help, not hurt.No one can TRULEY empathize with another's suffering. If you re-read my initial post, you will note I used words like "US" and "we".
This is because I am in the same boat with the participants of this webpage.Sorry that my advice was not pertinant to your partculiar disorder....if in the future you would like those calming exercises I was taught here is my e-mail
Eliom12@aol.comGod bless
Buckeye Fan
Posted by Racer on May 28, 2004, at 9:06:53
In reply to Exercise Making Me More Depressed/Irritable - HELP, posted by Survector on May 27, 2004, at 0:34:19
I can't tell you what caused it, because looking back I'd say it was a combination of things working together, but it was pretty awful.
For one thing, I was unmedicated and really trying to feel better through exercise. So, I'd slog through my routine every day, weights every other day, plus anywhere from 45 to 90 minutes of cardio every day. I did get the satisfaction of having DONE it, and the satisfaction of having sculpted biceps (dang, my arms looked *good*), but since that exercise was the one thing I looked forward to in the day, when it was done, I was done in. And the next day, since I had to do it again, and I knew it wasn't going to 'fix' me, and it was hard work, I would start out a little lower. So, the psychological reaction was a little intense, and I know that it really did play a big part in this for me.
Also, I wasn't eating enough, so I was exercising hard and not taking in enough food to fuel it. You wrote about exercising, but a balanced, adequate diet it also vital to the process. (That's me calling the kettle black, of course, but even though it's "do as I say, not as I do", I'm still right. A balanced diet with enough calories to meet your body's needs really is vital to your well-being.)
Then there are the hormones released through exercise. I don't know enough about them to describe what goes on, so I do have to leave that to someone else, but I'll read those replies when they come avidly. My guess is that you've got some stress hormone involvement, since I know that Cushing's syndrome leads to the loss of muscle tone, which makes me think that cortisol might be involved somehow. (Yeah, OK, I'm just exposing my own ignorance here. What can I say? I am trying to help.) Also, if you're not eating enough, there is evidence of a change in the patterns of dopamine related synaptic activity in your hypothalamus. That's from very, very old studies done with anorexia patients. Their brains were not reacting the way starvation victims did, they reacted as long term speed addicts did. Lots more dopamine activity in the mammalian regions of the brain.
As for the answers you got earlier, I don't think anyone wanted to frustrate you. My guess is, just like me, a lot of people wanted to show their support to you, and some people really wanted you to see that -- no matter the biochemical cause -- this might be psychological as well. I know I posted because I feel for you and want to help, even if I don't know the biochemical mechanisms invovled. I also know that it was in large part psychological for me, so I don't want you to reject the possibility that it might be partly so for you, too.
Best luck to you, kiddo. I hope it clears up soon.
Posted by blondegirl47 on May 28, 2004, at 13:21:49
In reply to I've experienced something similar » Survector, posted by Racer on May 28, 2004, at 9:06:53
If something is bothering me emotionaly it seems like exercising hard will break down my inhibitions and I will start crying. Sometimes its a good release.
I love this board, I thought I was the only one in the world having this reaction during exercise. I agree about the food thing too. A couple ounces of protein before a workout helps me alot.
I wonder if getting dehydrated has anything to do with it?
Thanks for letting me commiserate.
Blondegirl
Posted by BobS, on May 28, 2004, at 13:29:04
In reply to Exercise Making Me More Depressed/Irritable - HELP, posted by Survector on May 27, 2004, at 0:34:19
Survector,
I have experienced this also; moreover, my experience is sometimes cumulative. That is several days will increase the negative side effects.I have told my pdoc and internist and they smile and look at their watches. Have you considered hypoglycemia? I actually am thinking about buying a glucose monitor (I am not diabetic) since I can't run to a lab for a blood draw on my own.
Additionally, my BP is low when I get that "feeling" and the other poster who referred to the Vanderbilt article may be on to something.
Regards,
BobS.
Posted by Ilene on May 28, 2004, at 14:47:39
In reply to Re: Exercise Making Me TOO!!!, posted by BobS, on May 28, 2004, at 13:29:04
Here's a link to an article on neurally mediated syncope. "Syncope" means fainting. This is obviously *not* what is going on here, but the mechanisms are similar. You can read about orthostatic intolerance, too.
http://www.mc.vanderbilt.edu/gcrc/adc/syncope.html
This site provides a lot of detail but doesn't describe what goes in neurally mediated hypotension, where you don't pass out, and the effects can be delayed and long-lasting. It can feel like hypoglycemia because you aren't getting enough blood, period, to your brain. I used to feel dazed, weak, and foggy for hours after exercise.
Norepinephrine, the hormone that is supposed to signal the blood vessels to contract and raise blood pressure, is the same as the neurotransmitter norepinephrine that may be implicated in depression.
Posted by spoc on May 28, 2004, at 22:20:18
In reply to Re: I've experienced something similar » Racer, posted by blondegirl47 on May 28, 2004, at 13:21:49
I haven't read this whole thread and this probably won't add much, but I wanted to say that I have experienced this at times too. I think for me that it was a combination of the psychological and a physiological response I sometimes set myself up for.
As far as the psychological, I was an exercise addict for many years, from body image and eating disorder problems, not enjoyment. I would do cardio and weights from between 1.5 to 3.5 or more hours a day, every day. But.... most of the time I hated it and dreaded it. Sometimes I would become extremely irritable at certain points in my routine, but this was from knowing how far I had yet to go and that there was no way I was going to cut myself any slack, no matter how much I may not be in the mood; or may have been sick, running late, had other things I should be doing, etc. I knew I was a mess but I was trapped.
Survector, I'm sure your difficulties don't stem from such an overblown compulsion, like mine did. But, if by chance you are exercising more out of a sense of obligation and duty than in-the-moment enjoyment, perhaps this could be part of it.
The physiological component I would bring on was caused at least partly by my frequent habit of starting to work out on an empty stomach, and then when I was done, feverishly and hastily deciding I could then eat anything I wanted. I'd load up on refined carbs or other empty calories. That would often produce a mood swing or other ill feeling, at times somewhat later. I paid no attention to nutrition in general.
Even on occasions when none of the above were going on, I would sometimes drag and feel down later. And I would attribute it to the grounding of whatever exceptionally positive thoughts and intentions I may have been having earlier ("coming off" the ambitions themselves). Then, I may feel even worse if I thought about how soon I would need to start the whole dreaded exercise routine over again. And realized what a problem I had, in that I felt like exercise was the only thing standing between me and God knows what, but I had gone and turned it into a nightmare....
Could your expectations and sense of doing what you *have* to rather than *want* to be higher than your enjoyment of the actual process? Sorry if I missed anything already said. And sorry about how you're feeling -- I wish you the best...
Posted by spoc on May 28, 2004, at 23:33:51
In reply to Re: I've experienced something similar, posted by spoc on May 28, 2004, at 22:20:18
Posted by harryp on May 28, 2004, at 23:47:31
In reply to Exercise Making Me More Depressed/Irritable - HELP, posted by Survector on May 27, 2004, at 0:34:19
I haven't experienced such a severe problem, but I'm personally athletically obsessed and have had problems with "crashes" after hard workouts. I've worked out some nutritional strategies that seem to enhance my mood and reduce exercise fatigue.
I have a few suggestions:
Make sure you eat something with carbs and protein BEFORE your work-out. I'm very partial to Powerbars, since they are easy to digest (not like eating eggs and oatmeal before a run!) and have a good balance of nutrients.
If you have breakfast after you work out, try having a quality whey protein shake, some fruit, and a bowl of oatmeal (oatmeal is one of the best and most slowly digested carb-based foods you can get.)
Don't overeat, but don't skip any meals. Always have something with lots of quality protein, (lean beef, chicken, nuts, or seafood) [or a whey shake in a pinch]. Try to avoid fried foods. (I'm fond of peanut butter and marmalade sandwiches on whole wheat bread with a few apples.)
Avoid anything with high-fructose corn syrup (messes up your metabolism) like sodas, and virtually all pre-sweetened foods. If you want sugar for something, use real sucrose (brown sugar or honey).
If you get hungry a few hours before bed--a whey protein shake is the best evening snack. It will help rebuild your muscles while you sleep, and is not likely to be converted to fat.
In short, go for high quality protein, quality carbs (fats are important too, but will come naturally with the animal protein) [olive oil is the best oil for cooking/salads, etc.].
Avoid fried stuff, carb snacks, high-fructose corn syrup, missed meals, and exercising on an empty stomach.
Hope this helps!
Posted by BobS, on May 29, 2004, at 12:51:01
In reply to Re: Exercise Making Me More Depressed/Irritable - HELP, posted by Buckeye Fan on May 27, 2004, at 7:17:10
Hypoglycemia means low blood sugar. This brochure is intended to increase knowledge about reactive hypoglycemia and to give suggestions on its control.
What is reactive hypoglycemia?
Reactive hypoglycemia can occur when blood glucose falls, resources of glucose from the liver are exhausted and an individual chooses not to eat. Gradually the body adjusts to this situation by using muscle protein to feed glucose to brain cells and fat to fuel the other body cells. But before this adjustment takes place an individual may experience symptoms of glucose deprivation to the brain resulting in symptoms such as: anxiety, hunger, dizziness, weakness, shaking muscles and racing heart. Because these symptoms are common to many conditions a health care provider should be consulted to assess an individual's specific symptoms and concerns.Who does reactive hypoglycemia effect?
Reactive hypoglycemia occurs in about 2-3 out of every 10 young women, more often in obese women and less often in people over age 45. While most people experience low blood glucose levels at times, if the symptoms are severe or ongoing it is important to learn to eat promptly and properly with a balanced meal or snack. Reactive hypoglycemia does not lead to more severe conditions.How can I control reactive hypoglycemia?
Reactive hypoglycemia can be controlled through:nutritionally balanced meals
frequent meals and snacks
regular exercise
no smoking
weight control
medical supervision if indicated
regular blood sugar checks if advised
How can reactive hypoglycemia be controlled with nutritionally balanced meals?
When blood glucose falls, it has to be replaced sooner or later; a meal or a snack must be eaten. The question of what to eat becomes important. Many people believe the obvious solution is to eat a source of "quick energy," such as a candy bar or a cola beverage. If you eat a meal or snack that is unusually high in carbohydrate, and especially if it consists mostly of concentrated sugar (candy bar or cola beverage), your blood glucose concentration may rise too high, so that the pancreas overreacts, secreting too much insulin. The blood glucose level may fall too low or too fast. Some people then experience the symptoms of hypoglycemia.Surprisingly, a more helpful choice is to eat a complex carbohydrate food (cracker, bagel, bread stick, soft pretzel, bread, cereal).
Complex carbohydrate foods such as crackers or bread, deliver less glucose over a longer period of time, eliciting less of an insulin response. A cracker or other grain with cheese or other protein/fat is even a better choice. The fat slows down the digestion of the carbohydrate.
Some snack and meal suggestions that meet the goal of including a complex carbohydrate, a protein source and fat include:
sandwich
yogurt and fruit
cottage cheese and crackers
turkey, cheese slices and veggies on a salad
salad with beans added
peanut butter and crackers
low fat cheese and crackers
bean soup and crackers
low fat cheese on bake potato
bagel and lowfat cream cheese
A Registered Dietitian is available to students through Health and Wellness Education, IU Health Center, 855-7338 to assist with meals and snacks, nutrition and planning.Other nutritional guidelines may help to manage low blood sugar levels.
Eat at least three regularly spaced meals 3 to 5 hours apart) daily. Include snacks if needed. Eat at the same time each day. Avoid skipping meals. This can be accomplished without weight gain by staying at a healthy caloric intake (distribute total calories throughout the day). Avoid sugar and foods and beverages containing sugar, especially on an empty stomach. An occasional sweet food consumed in a small amount with a meal may be tolerated.
Include at each meal or snack:
Complex carbohydrate: fruit,vegetable,starch or grain product.
Protein source: lowfat meat, lowfat dairy product, legume, peanut butter.
Fat source: oil, margarine,lowfat mayonnaise (fats may be hidden in carbohydrate and protein). Use these fats sparingly. Distribute meals and snack calories as evenly as possible throughout the day.
Limit alcohol. Drink alcohol only with food and only with health care providers approval.Avoid caffeine (in coffee, tea, cola drinks, chocolate)
Eat 1 to 3 hours before exercise. Extra calories may be needed before exercise to compensate for calories burned.
Why exercise?
Exercise may improve blood sugar control. Reduced stress and increased levels of self-esteem are experienced in physically active people.
Exercise improves heart and lung function, circulation, blood pressure and cholesterol levels.
Exercise will help in controlling and maintaining ideal weight.
Are there other conditions that cause the same symptoms as reactive hypoglycemia?
Yes! There are other conditions that cause similar symptoms.Spontaneous hypoglycemia is a rare condition in which the pancreas habitually over secretes insulin. This condition requires medical treatment. Anxiety may produce some of the same symptoms of reactive hypoglycemia.
It is important to see a health care provider for diagnosis of symptoms of low blood sugar and then to follow the treatment plan agreed upon. Health and Wellness Education, Indiana University Health Center has a Registered Dietitian and Fitness Specialist to help students make the nutritional and exercise changes important in controlling reactive hypoglycemia. Call Health and Wellness Education, 855-7338 for information or appointments with a Registered Dietitian or for a fitness assessment and exercise prescription.
Posted by Survector on May 29, 2004, at 13:26:21
In reply to Re: Exercise Making Me - Attached potential answer, posted by BobS, on May 29, 2004, at 12:51:01
I don't know if this helps at all - but I'm only 23 years old and weigh 135 lbs at 5'9" with a 32" waist. As far as I know, I eat a pretty well-balanced diet.
I apologize for not thanking more of you for your supportive ideas, but I've come up with the flu as of late (very strange - considering that I already caught it around Christmas time). This came on right as I chose not to workout either today or yesterday. Not only that, but I'm tapering off of a rather harsh benzo regimen which is making me rather honest/direct with everyone (which may come off as rude - my apologies). Make no mistake, however - this exercise problem has been the same for years (when on meds or not on meds, like I said).
Also, an interesting side note for any fellow chronic insomniacs - the anti-epilepsy drug Neurontin isn't as benign as many doctors and/or patients claim when prescribed off-label for insomnia. Without it, I go through rebound insomnia of which no dosage of a benzo can compensate for - in addition, the withdrawal is similar to that of Xanax - and when I take it along with Xanax, the withdrawals are even worse.
I'm currently not only tackling the exercise issue, but also the issue of tapering down from 4 mg of Klonopin and 4 mg of Xanax per night (which only lasted several nights at that unheard of combination of dosages – it was mainly 4 mg of Xanax and 2 mg Klonopin per night or less) to just 4 mg Klonopin per night and then down from there *slowly* at a snail's pace in order to prevent seizures (with a complete cut-out of my 1200-1800 mg nightly dose of Neurontin). One interesting side note about the Klonopin is that it appears to increase the ability for one to sustain a high duration exercise regimen during the daytime without tiring out (due to its effects on the suppression of cortisol release).
Posted by Carlos C on May 30, 2004, at 1:55:00
In reply to Exercise Making Me More Depressed/Irritable - HELP, posted by Survector on May 27, 2004, at 0:34:19
I too feel (now that off all meds) that exercise is my only avenue for having any self-esteem. Just a little over a year ago I had a great self-image. I was in very good shape, muscular and very proportional. Then I started Nardil and eventually turned into a hungry, tired, fat-ass.
Anyways I can relate to your situation somewhat. I too, feel that great exercisers 'high' for a few hours. As the day goes my mood takes a sharp dive. Much like you explained it can carry on untill the next day. This make it VERY difficult to exercise the next day since I feel like crap which drains all my energy. Then I feel worse for doing a half-assed work out. It's a vicious cycle.
Posted by Survector on May 30, 2004, at 11:40:23
In reply to I can relate., posted by Carlos C on May 30, 2004, at 1:55:00
> I too feel (now that off all meds) that exercise is my only avenue for having any self-esteem. Just a little over a year ago I had a great self-image. I was in very good shape, muscular and very proportional. Then I started Nardil and eventually turned into a hungry, tired, fat-ass.
>
> Anyways I can relate to your situation somewhat. I too, feel that great exercisers 'high' for a few hours. As the day goes my mood takes a sharp dive. Much like you explained it can carry on untill the next day. This make it VERY difficult to exercise the next day since I feel like crap which drains all my energy. Then I feel worse for doing a half-assed work out. It's a vicious cycle.Exactly - and the negative effects of working out every day appear to be cumulative as the week goes on (until a break is taken over the weekend). Then, many times on Sunday afternoons/evenings, another irrational bout of depression and anxiety starts up which I cannot explain. This does not appear to be related to the beginning of a new school or work week necessairily (because it happens even when I have no upcoming weekly obligations at all).
Posted by harryp on May 31, 2004, at 0:53:20
In reply to Re: I can relate., posted by Survector on May 30, 2004, at 11:40:23
Your symptoms do sound familiar, though mine are generally much milder.
I'm sure you're eating well. The point I wanted to make in the nutrition post is that TIMING can be critical in nutrition. My moods crash if I run out of glycogen (from insufficient carbs before a workout, usually) or fail to eat enough protein, particularly after a workout. Protein can't be stored, so it's important to get it regularly throughout the day.
Posted by sjb on June 1, 2004, at 10:52:11
In reply to Re: Exercise Making Me More Depressed/Irritable - HELP, posted by Survector on May 27, 2004, at 11:44:42
I'm glad to hear that I'm am not alone, althoughI am sorry for your difficulties. I get really PO'd when I hear people tell me that excercise is good for depression. It's not that I don't believe it. I think excercise is vital and certainly there are too many people in this world that are not being helped by a sendentary lifestyle, depressives and non-depressives, alike. Ok, that's out of the way.
I'm a long distance runner, hitting about 80 miles a week now. Have run marathons and ultra marathons up to 100 miles. So, don't anybody tell me about excercise. I also hit the gym for 4 days a week for an hour of intensive weight work. I ALSO have a history of major depression. Sometimes, I really crash after a long, intensive event or training 'cause in part, I think my endocrine system gets really whacked and there's a let down, etc. I don't know the answer and am searching myself but just wanted to let you know that you are not alone.
Most of my PDocs and therapists don't have a clue to what my lifestyle entails. They don't know how ADs can affect endurance, strength etc and most think I do too much, but that's another topic I can discurss on obsessive-compulsiveness.
More later. This topic interests me greatly.
Posted by Survector on June 1, 2004, at 12:05:19
In reply to Re: Exercise Making Me More Depressed/Irritable - HELP, posted by sjb on June 1, 2004, at 10:52:11
> I'm glad to hear that I'm am not alone, althoughI am sorry for your difficulties. I get really PO'd when I hear people tell me that excercise is good for depression. It's not that I don't believe it. I think excercise is vital and certainly there are too many people in this world that are not being helped by a sendentary lifestyle, depressives and non-depressives, alike. Ok, that's out of the way.
>
> I'm a long distance runner, hitting about 80 miles a week now. Have run marathons and ultra marathons up to 100 miles. So, don't anybody tell me about excercise. I also hit the gym for 4 days a week for an hour of intensive weight work. I ALSO have a history of major depression. Sometimes, I really crash after a long, intensive event or training 'cause in part, I think my endocrine system gets really whacked and there's a let down, etc. I don't know the answer and am searching myself but just wanted to let you know that you are not alone.
>
> Most of my PDocs and therapists don't have a clue to what my lifestyle entails. They don't know how ADs can affect endurance, strength etc and most think I do too much, but that's another topic I can discurss on obsessive-compulsiveness.
>
> More later. This topic interests me greatly.No PD's or psychiatrists/therapists know much, if anything about this topic and it saddens me greatly. There needs to be more research and attention put into this matter and someone needs to help get an NIH study started, ASAP. This is a public health issue, because I know there are a lot of people out there who may lead sedentary lifestyles who would otherwise be at the gym and keeping a healthy weight and body fitness level if it weren't for the inevitable (and many times unbearable) depression that resulted.
Yes, antidepressants reduce your endurance output greatly. They make you significantly weaker and you tire out faster (and sweat like a 'pig' in the process from my experience of running). I found this to be true with all of the SSRIs - though not as much with the SNRI Effexor. People would always ask me, "Did you just stand under a shower or something?" after I did a long, hard run (because I would always sweat through my clothes). If you're currently on an antidepressant, a viable option would be to ask your psychiatrist to put you on the noradrenergic agonist Provigil to help combat antidepressant-induced fatigue (it works quite well and would allow you to run those 'extra miles' that you normally would have to forgo). Many psychiatrists will prescribe this off-label as adjunctive therapy for their patients that complain about lack of motivation while on antidepressants, so it might be worth asking about.
Posted by blondegirl47 on June 1, 2004, at 12:31:33
In reply to Re: Exercise Making Me More Depressed/Irritable - HELP, posted by Survector on June 1, 2004, at 12:05:19
Just an fyi...provigil can cause you blood pressure to go up. I tried for my ADD and found it to make my tummy upset and me dizzy. Did nothing for my ADD. Other people have had good success with it though. :)
It is also very expensive.
Blondegirl
Posted by sjb on June 1, 2004, at 14:11:24
In reply to Re: Exercise Making Me More Depressed/Irritable - HELP, posted by Survector on June 1, 2004, at 12:05:19
Depression is horrible, esp. what it does to you physically. I know when I can't get out of the house during the really bad times, I'm so jealous of my "normal" friends that are at the gym, working out consistently, while I'm just a big puddle on the sofa . . .
As for Provigal, yes, I've heard wonderful things about it on the Crazymeds website, as well. However, guess you know, Kelli White has made it famous in the sprinting world of Track and Field. She was just banned for taking it, and other drugs as well. Granted, I'm a far cry from an Olympian and she took it for a performance edge, not for depression, but I would still not feel right taking it, as I do compete from time-to-time, even it's just low-key, local stuff.
Funny, how you mention the drugs and sweating. I've always beena big sweater, but it's buckets when I'm on meds (Luvox was one of the worst.)
I've found that my endurance is ok, maybe even better on some SSRIs at LOW dosages. It's hard to tell, though, because the times I would go off meds to prepare for a race, I'd crash so bad with depression, I couldn't train anyway. So, now I'm on 20 mg of Prozac and for me, that has worked the best. I, too, did ok with Effexor at low dosages. The worst was Zyprexa and Parnate, for me, anyway. But you're right about the PDocs. I even went to sports pyschiatrist (one of only a couple in the US, I believe) and he was ok, but he still didn't understand when I would talk about not being able to run for more than 8 miles when I increased med dosages. For the record, he said he had the most success with Prozac, Lamictal and Paxil CR for his athletic patients.
Good luck with your search. Someday, people will look back on this time as the "bloodletting" of psychiatry.
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