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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mattdds on May 5, 2004, at 1:47:32
Hey all,
I've been MIA for a while. Anyone here remember me?
I have a question for anyone who has done military service.
I'm graduating from dental school in exactly one week, and have to report to officer training later this summer, and then in fall for an overseas assignment (not Iraq).
Until now, I've been technically in the "reserve" status, as I was on the military scholarship for health professionals. Now, I'm going on active duty as a captain, and they will want an updated medical status, and physical.
At the time I was comissioned, and at the time of my physical for accession, I had not been diagnosed with panic disorder, so I did not report it. I did tell them that I had a bout of depression (which in retrospect, was misdiagnosed - it really was panic and anxiety) and took Prozac years back (all true, at the time). The problem is that since then, I *have* been diagnosed, and my psychiatrist uses DSM 200.1 as the diagnosis code for my meds and insurance. So, it's officially documented in my medical history.
Now obviously, lying is not an option here. But, I am worried about being considered "fit for duty". I really feel that I am fit for it, physically and mentally, it's just that meds have really helped stabilize my conditions (panic, generalized anxiety). I feel 100% fit for service. I am in *no way* trying to dodge my duty obligation, and actually really want to serve. The military paid for all my dental training, I fully intend to pay it back, so long as they will let me, and if that doesn't mean ripping me off meds.
So I'm in a bind.
Do I just go to the physical and straight up tell them everything? Do I have to offer up all the details in terms of severity, or can I just say that I was diagnosed with "anxiety" and need medication.
Are they OK with servicemen being on meds? Or is this a condition that inherently makes me "unit for duty"?
Anybody have any answers? I've scoured the internet, and I don't want to contact them until I get all the information I can on this. I do plan on telling them about it, but what will this mean?
Any experts here? Any help, ideas, or especially first hand experiences would be greatly appreciated!
mattdds
Posted by chemist on May 5, 2004, at 1:57:39
In reply to US Military Service Meds - Need advice guys!, posted by mattdds on May 5, 2004, at 1:47:32
> Hey all,
>
> I've been MIA for a while. Anyone here remember me?
>
> I have a question for anyone who has done military service.
>
> I'm graduating from dental school in exactly one week, and have to report to officer training later this summer, and then in fall for an overseas assignment (not Iraq).
>
> Until now, I've been technically in the "reserve" status, as I was on the military scholarship for health professionals. Now, I'm going on active duty as a captain, and they will want an updated medical status, and physical.
>
> At the time I was comissioned, and at the time of my physical for accession, I had not been diagnosed with panic disorder, so I did not report it. I did tell them that I had a bout of depression (which in retrospect, was misdiagnosed - it really was panic and anxiety) and took Prozac years back (all true, at the time). The problem is that since then, I *have* been diagnosed, and my psychiatrist uses DSM 200.1 as the diagnosis code for my meds and insurance. So, it's officially documented in my medical history.
>
> Now obviously, lying is not an option here. But, I am worried about being considered "fit for duty". I really feel that I am fit for it, physically and mentally, it's just that meds have really helped stabilize my conditions (panic, generalized anxiety). I feel 100% fit for service. I am in *no way* trying to dodge my duty obligation, and actually really want to serve. The military paid for all my dental training, I fully intend to pay it back, so long as they will let me, and if that doesn't mean ripping me off meds.
>
> So I'm in a bind.
>
> Do I just go to the physical and straight up tell them everything? Do I have to offer up all the details in terms of severity, or can I just say that I was diagnosed with "anxiety" and need medication.
>
> Are they OK with servicemen being on meds? Or is this a condition that inherently makes me "unit for duty"?
>
> Anybody have any answers? I've scoured the internet, and I don't want to contact them until I get all the information I can on this. I do plan on telling them about it, but what will this mean?
>
> Any experts here? Any help, ideas, or especially first hand experiences would be greatly appreciated!
>
> mattdds
>
>
can't comment on anything but the fact that the u.s. military regularly hands out dexedrine to pilots on long-range missions. if the military is handing out speed - and there was a dexedrine-related death disaster in the past 6 months because of this - then i think you should let *them* evaluate *you*. remember that ``don't ask, don't tell'' policy? it applies across the board.....go get 'em, and all the best, chemist
Posted by mattdds on May 5, 2004, at 2:15:32
In reply to Re: US Military Service Meds - Need advice guys! » mattdds, posted by chemist on May 5, 2004, at 1:57:39
Hey Chemist,
Thanks for the reply, I just barely submitted it! Wow.
Yeah, they do give out dexedrine like it's candy to pilots. Kinda burns me that I have a legitimate reason to take meds and I need to worry about being considered a weakling.
As far as the "don't ask don't tell" policy, I only wish that were the case with medical history. The difference being that they, in fact, *do* ask you to give a detailed medical history. If you don't report something (e.g. asthma, psych disorders), and it comes up later, you can do some time in military prison, as far as I understand. The FBI can even pull all your civilian medical records! Pretty crazy.
I think you're right about letting them evaluate me themselves. I don't think they are out to get me. After all, they forked over a very large sum to get me trained as a dentist. It wouldn't make much sense to get real picky with me. I really have nothing to hide. I asked my doc if he though I was fit for duty, and he said he believed I certainly was, but was not qualified to officially say so, as he is a civilian doc. Perhaps the military docs have different criteria (which scares me...they still refer to anxiety as "neurosis").
Thanks for your encouragement, judging from your posts you seem to be very resourceful.
Matt
Posted by gardenergirl on May 5, 2004, at 6:15:30
In reply to Re: US Military Service Meds - Need advice guys! » chemist, posted by mattdds on May 5, 2004, at 2:15:32
Posted by Scott in Vermont on May 5, 2004, at 7:39:10
In reply to Re: US Military Service Meds - Need advice guys! » chemist, posted by mattdds on May 5, 2004, at 2:15:32
Matt,
I was active duty from 88-94, and this is my opinion: don't tell them anything. Keep your act together, if possible "stock up" on your meds before you go and take care of yourself without it being an issue for them. Bascially, what they don't know won't hurt you.
So long as you remain a highly motivated hard-charging troop, they probably won't care about anything else.
When I was in, I knew SSG who was an outstanding NCO. He was a natural leader, knew how to motivate his troops, and was incredibly efficient in all of his duties. Then one day his wife ditches him. He started to slide, and he sought help by seeking counseling. No meds, no "suicidal statements or intent", just SAW a doc to talk about his feelings.
The unit found out about it before he even left the office. As soon as he got back, he was ROD, lost his team, and was sent to a Company-issued psych eval. Suffering that indignity compounded his situation to the point where he finally DID make "suicial statements or intent" because he couldn't deal with all the crap. He was given a psych discharge after mowing lawns for 6 months because he was never cleared for duty after he was ROD. He was a good man who got screwed over by policy and procedure.
(No, I'm not that guy, but I was on his team)
Not trying to scare you at all! Please understand that. I'm only telling you one man's story. Others may have had more positive experiences, but it taught a young soldier (me) a valuable lesson- don't trust them with anything more important than name, rank, and SSN.
I hope you do well. My best wishes to you.
Posted by Sebastian on May 5, 2004, at 14:27:50
In reply to US Military Service Meds - Need advice guys!, posted by mattdds on May 5, 2004, at 1:47:32
I don't know how the military works. But I have tried to get a commecial drivers licence. The government employee at the DMV said in order to take the test, I would need a note from my doctor saying that I am fit to drive commecialy. My doctor would not give me a letter at the time, so I didn't become a commecial truck driver. I would guess the same for you.
Posted by mattdds on May 5, 2004, at 15:36:49
In reply to Re: US Military Service Meds - Need advice guys! » mattdds, posted by Scott in Vermont on May 5, 2004, at 7:39:10
Hey Scott,
Thanks for the follow up.
My only concern with not telling them is that I am currently taking a benzodiazepine (Klonopin), which would show up on a drug panel during inprocessing to Officer Training. I will have to do one of two things:
1. Taper off Klonopin (they do test for benzos)
2. Tell them I am taking Klonopin and hope for the best.Now tapering off Klonopin is not something I want to do, and it is extremely difficult. I preemptively have gone down from 2.0 mg to 1.25 mg daily - just in case, and have had a difficult time. It really stinks because I'd taken Klonopin for 2 years with great luck, and no dose increases.
So, I will have to tell them, or go off the Klonopin...at least until the physical is over. Even then, I'm not completely out of the woods. They do random drug screenings, so it would be rough to constantly worry about that.
Thanks for your reply, I'm still weighing my options.
Best,
Matt
Posted by sapphirerose on May 5, 2004, at 17:35:46
In reply to US Military Service Meds - Need advice guys!, posted by mattdds on May 5, 2004, at 1:47:32
Hi Matt,
My husband is an active duty LT in the Navy. He has been on various different meds for depression and anxiety over the past 8 years or so. Right now he takes Luvox and Trazadone. He sees a military psychiatrist every couple of months and she renews the prescriptions. I think you should tell them the truth about the drugs you are on. I don't think it will effect your career. My husband had never been considered "unfit for duty" because he is on psychiatric meds. I've known other officers who were taking drugs prescribed by a psychiatrist, and it didn't effect their careers either. I think the only thing that could hurt your "fitness" for duty would be NOT telling them. You could get in serious trouble for that. Hope this helps..
> Hey all,
>
> I've been MIA for a while. Anyone here remember me?
>
> I have a question for anyone who has done military service.
>
> I'm graduating from dental school in exactly one week, and have to report to officer training later this summer, and then in fall for an overseas assignment (not Iraq).
>
> Until now, I've been technically in the "reserve" status, as I was on the military scholarship for health professionals. Now, I'm going on active duty as a captain, and they will want an updated medical status, and physical.
>
> At the time I was comissioned, and at the time of my physical for accession, I had not been diagnosed with panic disorder, so I did not report it. I did tell them that I had a bout of depression (which in retrospect, was misdiagnosed - it really was panic and anxiety) and took Prozac years back (all true, at the time). The problem is that since then, I *have* been diagnosed, and my psychiatrist uses DSM 200.1 as the diagnosis code for my meds and insurance. So, it's officially documented in my medical history.
>
> Now obviously, lying is not an option here. But, I am worried about being considered "fit for duty". I really feel that I am fit for it, physically and mentally, it's just that meds have really helped stabilize my conditions (panic, generalized anxiety). I feel 100% fit for service. I am in *no way* trying to dodge my duty obligation, and actually really want to serve. The military paid for all my dental training, I fully intend to pay it back, so long as they will let me, and if that doesn't mean ripping me off meds.
>
> So I'm in a bind.
>
> Do I just go to the physical and straight up tell them everything? Do I have to offer up all the details in terms of severity, or can I just say that I was diagnosed with "anxiety" and need medication.
>
> Are they OK with servicemen being on meds? Or is this a condition that inherently makes me "unit for duty"?
>
> Anybody have any answers? I've scoured the internet, and I don't want to contact them until I get all the information I can on this. I do plan on telling them about it, but what will this mean?
>
> Any experts here? Any help, ideas, or especially first hand experiences would be greatly appreciated!
>
> mattdds
>
>
Posted by mattdds on May 5, 2004, at 23:05:48
In reply to Re: US Military Service Meds - Need advice guys!, posted by sapphirerose on May 5, 2004, at 17:35:46
Hi Sapphire,
I think this is great advice, and it's close to what I was guessing was probably the case...the military is not really out to get anyone.
I think they are mainly trying to establish that a soldier or officer has a preexisting condition so they won't wind up with a lawsuit with someone claiming the service did it to them.
Another consideration is that I did not have this (official) diagnosis when I originally accessed (entered military duty). I hear that if a condition develops during your military career, they are less inclined to consider you unfit.
It's so encouraging to hear this. Thanks so much for telling me your (and your husband's) story. The military paid for all my dental training, and I sincerely want to pay it back to the best of my capabilities (cheesy, but true!).
Thanks again!
Matt
Posted by Cressida on May 5, 2004, at 23:59:06
In reply to US Military Service Meds - Need advice guys!, posted by mattdds on May 5, 2004, at 1:47:32
Hi Matt, you are indeed caught in a tough bind. I entered the U.S. Army as an E-3 this past Jan 22 and was discharged the following Mar 8 for having a psychiatric history. I did conceal my condition upon enlisting and up until entering service. Upon revealing my history during what's called "The Moment of Truth" during basic training I was EPS'ed (existing prior to service).
I stopped all of my meds many many months before leaving for training and I'm still not taking anything except Strattera for ADD.
I remember being in your situation. I mentioned my history out of principle and morals - I wanted to be honest and hoped for the best. I don't think I would risk mentioning ANYTHING, and chemist is probably safe in suggesting the "don't ask, don't tell" policy. Matt, this is a decision that can alter your career path. Carefully consider the consequences of a "no-go" reaction. If the medication is essential to your mental health and you're discharged, then what will you decide to do in that case? My brother is attending dental school at UNC this coming year. You can work as a dentist in the civilian community.
In consideration to what someone else posted about being forthcoming about your situation, the procedures that applied to me may be different for officers; especially one for whom the government already funded his expensive "training".
Let me conclude that I am positive that a person cannot ENTER military service and take psychiatric medication - if they were to discover you'd be hosed. Taking it after being active-duty is quite different and probably accepted, but only if the proper channels are taken. The best of luck!
Posted by afatchic on May 7, 2004, at 21:28:41
In reply to Re: US Military service and psych meds, posted by Cressida on May 5, 2004, at 23:59:06
Matt,
I was in the Air Force for 15 years and I am almost certain that they will not want you if you tell them the truth. If you allow them to diagnose you after you have been on active duty, it's OK, but they won't let you in if you already have the problem.
I was diagnosed with chronic depression while I was on active duty and prescribed meds. They had no problem with me going overseas or into a war zone during that time, but after I got out they would not let me into the reserves.
If you don't tell them of your diagnosis, how will they find out? It's not like they call every doctor in the area to ask if they've seen you.
Perhaps not joining the service is your better choice. There are many ways to serve your country. Being a compassionate dentist is great way.
I wish you all the best.
> Hi Matt, you are indeed caught in a tough bind. I entered the U.S. Army as an E-3 this past Jan 22 and was discharged the following Mar 8 for having a psychiatric history. I did conceal my condition upon enlisting and up until entering service. Upon revealing my history during what's called "The Moment of Truth" during basic training I was EPS'ed (existing prior to service).
>
> I stopped all of my meds many many months before leaving for training and I'm still not taking anything except Strattera for ADD.
>
> I remember being in your situation. I mentioned my history out of principle and morals - I wanted to be honest and hoped for the best. I don't think I would risk mentioning ANYTHING, and chemist is probably safe in suggesting the "don't ask, don't tell" policy. Matt, this is a decision that can alter your career path. Carefully consider the consequences of a "no-go" reaction. If the medication is essential to your mental health and you're discharged, then what will you decide to do in that case? My brother is attending dental school at UNC this coming year. You can work as a dentist in the civilian community.
>
> In consideration to what someone else posted about being forthcoming about your situation, the procedures that applied to me may be different for officers; especially one for whom the government already funded his expensive "training".
>
> Let me conclude that I am positive that a person cannot ENTER military service and take psychiatric medication - if they were to discover you'd be hosed. Taking it after being active-duty is quite different and probably accepted, but only if the proper channels are taken. The best of luck!
Posted by mattdds on May 7, 2004, at 23:59:04
In reply to Re: US Military service and psych meds, posted by afatchic on May 7, 2004, at 21:28:41
Hello,
Perhaps I was unclear. I already *have* been comissioned, and the condition developed after my comissioning.
I have technically been a 2nd lieutenant during dental school, and I developed panic disorder during that time. The military has already paid for my education. This is not an *accession* issue, but an issue of being able to continue on with a condition that developed after my being comissioned.
I am actually set up to get appointed to a Captain immediately following graduation from dental school. They have not asked for a medical history update, and therefore, I have not provided one.
I understand what you are saying that there are other options, other than the military, but I am already IN the military, and have been since before I was officially diagnosed with panic disorder (at least by a physician).
My circumstance is a bit different than enlisting, or being advanced to an officer. When the Army offers you the scholarship, they immediately put you in as a 2nd lieutenant. Then you are in the reserves for the duration of your education.
So, I am already comitted to this. It's not like I'm trying to kick against the pricks and enter the military, and I'm trying to conceal a condition. They've invested well over $200,000 in paying for my education.
I just don't see why they would be so eager to get rid of me after all that. Especially when my condition developed after my comissioning.
Thanks for your reply!
Matt
Posted by chemist on May 8, 2004, at 0:36:02
In reply to Re: US Military service and psych meds » afatchic, posted by mattdds on May 7, 2004, at 23:59:04
matt, i am way out of my league here, what with the military regulations, etc. just wanted to drop you a line wishing you well, and it has been an education for me reading the follow-ups to your post...with most sincere best wishes for a positve turn, chemist
Posted by HappyGirl on May 9, 2004, at 0:45:01
In reply to Re: US Military service and psych meds » afatchic, posted by mattdds on May 7, 2004, at 23:59:04
Hi:
One person whom I know for quite awhile developed 'epilepsy,' ... not psychological/psychiatric problem, ... after having entered in the Military. He said even himself did 'not' know what the hell was going on in his brain. However, he KNEW of course it was 'seizure' related problem, ... just did not 'want' to reveal his problem. Then, one day after got off from the work in the military base, he SUDDENLY passed out, ...practically 'blacked out' completely and hit very hard into the tree and wrecked his car that was not in the salvaged state. After that, somehow the military found out his 'true' problem, 'Epilepsy, and then he was discharged on the basis of 'medical condition.' After the military, his life was, unfortunately NOT easy both financially and marriage. However, he's been doing well on today's economy with taking 'epilepsy' medication, Lamical very loyally.
Then, I just wonder it's REALLY worth for any one to keep secrecy at the cost of your mental and emotional well-being, because there needs 'medication/med combo.' However, since I've never been in the military, except some knowledge about Armed Force from my siblings, and then I can NOT comment on your current situation.
Hopefully, you can/will find some GOOD solution soon.
H.G.
Posted by afatchic on May 9, 2004, at 2:57:15
In reply to Re: US Military service and psych meds » afatchic, posted by mattdds on May 7, 2004, at 23:59:04
Matt,
Perhaps it would be more productive to ask your question on a military forum. Here's a link: http://usmilitary.about.com/
> Hello,
>
> Perhaps I was unclear. I already *have* been comissioned, and the condition developed after my comissioning.
>
> I have technically been a 2nd lieutenant during dental school, and I developed panic disorder during that time. The military has already paid for my education. This is not an *accession* issue, but an issue of being able to continue on with a condition that developed after my being comissioned.
>
> I am actually set up to get appointed to a Captain immediately following graduation from dental school. They have not asked for a medical history update, and therefore, I have not provided one.
>
> I understand what you are saying that there are other options, other than the military, but I am already IN the military, and have been since before I was officially diagnosed with panic disorder (at least by a physician).
>
> My circumstance is a bit different than enlisting, or being advanced to an officer. When the Army offers you the scholarship, they immediately put you in as a 2nd lieutenant. Then you are in the reserves for the duration of your education.
>
> So, I am already comitted to this. It's not like I'm trying to kick against the pricks and enter the military, and I'm trying to conceal a condition. They've invested well over $200,000 in paying for my education.
>
> I just don't see why they would be so eager to get rid of me after all that. Especially when my condition developed after my comissioning.
>
> Thanks for your reply!
>
> Matt
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 9, 2004, at 17:06:25
In reply to Re: US Military service and psych meds, posted by afatchic on May 9, 2004, at 2:57:15
> Perhaps it would be more productive to ask your question on a military forum.
You know, I think I'd also like to redirect this thread, to Psycho-Social-Babble. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20040507/msgs/345143.html
Thanks,
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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