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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by pharmamother on February 13, 2004, at 22:47:17
RE: "Suicide related to Duloxetine drug trials?" -- Eli Lilly is definitely shirking responsibility for this young girl's death. My daughter attends Indiana Bible College, and knew Traci Johnson.
Traci was not suicidal. Traci was not depressed. Traci was "cycled" (read: started and stopped cold turkey) on and off 5 TIMES the normal dose of duloxetine.
Yes, this is a personal matter to me, but because of my job, it is also a professional one. I am a clinical supervisor for the pharmacy department of a large MCO-HMO organization. Most of our benefits exclude new drugs from coverage for a period of one year after market date. And this tragedy is the reason why.
Eli Lilly's product information package will post a warning NOT to stop taking this drug suddenly. That is standard for all SSRI's (the type of drug duloxatine is). So why can't Lilly follow their own medical advice when doing drug trials? I sincerely hope this tragedy affects Lilly's marketing of this drug. It's all tooth and claw out there in the "new drug" market. Every drug company wants to get its "new and improved" version of the latest drug class on the market in record time. Duloxetine is not a "long awaited medical breakthrough" drug. It's just another antidepressant, just another urinary stress incontinence drug. There are several very good, well-tested, clinically proven similar drugs already on the market. Lilly just wanted their slice of the pie in this therapeutic class.
Eli Lilly should stick to their classic area of research, which is Diabetes. They have done remarkable and noble work in this disease field. For Eli Lilly, duloxetine is just a fast buck. And a dead end for a precious nineteen-year-old who was preparing her life for the ministry. They better own up and admit responsibility for this girl's death, as well as the other 4 or more suicides associated with this particular drug.
Posted by pseudonym on February 14, 2004, at 2:53:49
In reply to Eli Lilly and Responsibility, posted by pharmamother on February 13, 2004, at 22:47:17
I'm very sorry to hear about Traci Johnson. Is Eli Lilly part of Indiana Bible College? What is the relationship there? I guess if she was cycled off 5 times the normal dose, that would cause massive changes to her serotonin and neorepinephrine re-uptake pumps. Have they done the toxicology on Traci yet?
Posted by KellyD on February 14, 2004, at 10:14:14
In reply to Eli Lilly and Responsibility, posted by pharmamother on February 13, 2004, at 22:47:17
I am so sorry for the loss that touched your family.
I have also been a bit on the data collect end of clinical trials and have seen how data gets shifted round with "disallows" . "Disallows" being (loosely and not officially) defined as those with findings not in keeping with the expected (ie: postive) findings. I hope that does not occur here but those facts do indeed "get lost"... then, there can be huge issues when a substance goes to market and horrible outcomes occur.
The ethics question does come into play despite the processes that are SUPPOSE to be in place...... very sad indeed.
What criteria did they use that a nondepressed person was in this trial?
Posted by theo on February 14, 2004, at 10:46:34
In reply to Eli Lilly and Responsibility, posted by pharmamother on February 13, 2004, at 22:47:17
What's happened is sad, but this person signed up for a drug trial and I'm sure she signed a form disclosing all the "dangers" and even possible "death" by these drug trials, you are signing up to be a "human guinea pig." She made the decision and it is sad, maybe the minimum age for drug trials needs to be higher so you won't have as many younger folks signing up to make quick money, I think it said the drug trial paid $150.00/day. Again it's very sad but a decision she made.
Posted by leo33 on February 14, 2004, at 23:55:22
In reply to Eli Lilly and Responsibility, posted by pharmamother on February 13, 2004, at 22:47:17
The chances that Eli Lilly will take responsibility for this is about the chance I would have of winning all the lotteries in the world on the same day. Listen when it comes to money, life has very little meaning, especially when there is a fast buck to be made. That is our world, and especially true in America. Money will always win out over morals, ethics, and anything else that is good in this world. I'm sorry for the loss you experienced but to the drug company thats just the price of the ticket so they can make money. Don't expect them to lose any sleep over this. You work in the industry so you should know this already. They pay a lot of money to the politicians so they can have no accountability for their drugs and to protect their profit margins.
Posted by Ilene on February 15, 2004, at 11:15:33
In reply to Eli Lilly and Responsibility, posted by pharmamother on February 13, 2004, at 22:47:17
Duloxetine is not a "long awaited medical breakthrough" drug. It's just another antidepressant, just another urinary stress incontinence drug. There are several very good, well-tested, clinically proven similar drugs already on the market. Lilly just wanted their slice of the pie in this therapeutic class.
For those of us with severe, treatment-resistant depression, there is no such thing as "just another antidepressant". The problem is that no AD is really very good, and actually, there are not that many SNRIs on the market.
Yes, I'm in bed with the Devil, but what am I supposed to do? Turn my back on pharmaceuticals because they are manufactured by big, heartless, greedy corporations? I *do* feel burned, especially by Effexor, which is one of the nastiest things I ever ingested, but I would take it again if it would make me better.
I.
Posted by KellyD on February 15, 2004, at 11:45:27
In reply to Re: Eli Lilly and Responsibility, posted by Ilene on February 15, 2004, at 11:15:33
I don't think the point is to imply that nothing works, no data is valid, or there isn't a very good attempt to come up with a good choice that works. It's just we tend to not get the full disclosure.
We all struggle with finding something that does work with the least amount of demons.
Posted by mourningfriend on April 6, 2004, at 16:23:41
In reply to Re: Eli Lilly and Responsibility, posted by KellyD on February 15, 2004, at 11:45:27
As a friend of Traci Johnson's I am in deep anguish over her death. I have been reading everything I can possibly get my hands on about this drug and it's effects. As I read all this material and people's responses I thought what would Traci want. Knowing her sincere, giving, compassionate soul I think she would want us to pray for all people on AD medication. Not just to make sure nothing as tragic as her death happens to them but that they would know that GOD loves them and can heal their depression. More medication cannot cure depression just lessen the symptoms, only GOD can truly heal and deliver people from what makes them depressed. I know many may scoff at this but I don't care. No amount of finger pointing or arguing will bring her back but maybe someone will be pointed in the right direction. GOD Bless You All!!!!!
Posted by NotAddicted on April 6, 2004, at 18:44:57
In reply to Re: Eli Lilly and Responsibility » KellyD, posted by mourningfriend on April 6, 2004, at 16:23:41
I am sorry for your loss. Was there a reason this post was directed to me? I can assure you, my faith is very important to my wellbeing.
Posted by NotAddicted on April 6, 2004, at 20:09:20
In reply to Re: Eli Lilly and Responsibility » mourningfriend, posted by NotAddicted on April 6, 2004, at 18:44:57
I was KellyD in a past life.
Posted by mourningfriend on April 6, 2004, at 23:05:11
In reply to To clarify..., posted by NotAddicted on April 6, 2004, at 20:09:20
I was not directing my message to anyone in particular. I apologize if it seemed that way. It was a general statement. It was not my intent to offend anyone by any means.
Posted by NotAddicted on April 7, 2004, at 7:36:09
In reply to Re: To clarify..., posted by mourningfriend on April 6, 2004, at 23:05:11
Thank you for clearing that up... because my old ID was tagged to the back, it looked directed to me.
I appreciate your responding.
Again, I am sorry for your loss.
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 7, 2004, at 11:03:31
In reply to Re: Eli Lilly and Responsibility » KellyD, posted by mourningfriend on April 6, 2004, at 16:23:41
> only GOD can truly heal and deliver people from what makes them depressed...
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding religious faith to Psycho-Babble Faith. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20040113/msgs/333700.html
Thanks,
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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