Shown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by bee happy on February 11, 2004, at 13:06:55
I have been treated for depression with Buprenorphine (2 mgs four times daily)for almost two years. But in the past few months have noticed my concentration has deteriorated and am a bit concerned about memory as well. Some days it doesnt seem to be working at all, and I feel as if I'm just wandering in circles.This is so disappointing because it was such a life saver at first. Some of you may remember my earlier posts touting it. I really don't want to get involved with a cocktail situation but if that's what is necessary, I would. If any one else is taking buprenorphine for depression I would like to know if you have had poop out at some point, and if so what did you do? Add something for concentration? Start from scratch? Help! I especially miss reading. It's all I can do to get through a New Yorker article. My situation is compounded by living on a third world island where mental health is not a big priority. I may have to come back to the U.S. to sort this out. But if I had some feed back from you all and could share it with my Pdoc back home we could work it out long distance. I have a call into him but wanted to check with the board too. Thanks all. Bee
Posted by Chairman_MAO on February 11, 2004, at 15:03:31
In reply to Buprenorphine poopout?, posted by bee happy on February 11, 2004, at 13:06:55
The solution to this is simple: add dextroamphetamine or Adderall.
If you can't get a script for that, try methylphenidate, bupropion, selegiline (if it's compatible with buprenorphine, you'd have to check with someone very knowledgeable), atomoxetine, desipramine, or a dopamine agonist such as pramipexole, ropinirole, cabergoline, or bromocriptine.
Posted by Flipsactown on February 12, 2004, at 22:39:50
In reply to Re: Buprenorphine poopout? » bee happy, posted by Chairman_MAO on February 11, 2004, at 15:03:31
Isn't this med also used for opiate detox? I have been on oxycontin for 3 years and want to get off it. Anyone know how effective this med is for detox and how long it takes? Thanks
Flipsactown
> The solution to this is simple: add dextroamphetamine or Adderall.
>
> If you can't get a script for that, try methylphenidate, bupropion, selegiline (if it's compatible with buprenorphine, you'd have to check with someone very knowledgeable), atomoxetine, desipramine, or a dopamine agonist such as pramipexole, ropinirole, cabergoline, or bromocriptine.
Posted by Chairman_MAO on February 13, 2004, at 8:38:28
In reply to Re: Buprenorphine poopout? » Chairman_MAO, posted by Flipsactown on February 12, 2004, at 22:39:50
It's the most effective there is unless you'd require above 40mg/day methadone, in which case buprenorphine hits its "ceiling effect" and you'd need to use methadone. Actually, methadone is probably just as hard to kick as oxycodone, so ask your doctor what to do.
I don't know enough about detox to give you an estimate, but it could be done as quickly as 6-7 days or over a much longer period of time. Buprenorphine is really an amazing drug.
Posted by Flipsactown on February 13, 2004, at 11:54:21
In reply to Re: Buprenorphine poopout? » Flipsactown, posted by Chairman_MAO on February 13, 2004, at 8:38:28
Chairman_MAO,
But is it easier to kick than oxy? I experienced the withdrawal symptoms, accidently when I used more than prescribed and ran out and my pain doc was unavailable and ended up going to urgent care where they gave me just enough until my pain doc returned. I was out only a day and already had the DT's. I was both freezing and burning up at the same time, sweating, unable to sleep as my body could not keep still and I felt the need to jump right out of my body if I could. I hope buprenorphine is no where close to oxy's withdrawals. Any additional info will be appreciated. Thanks.
Flipsactown
> It's the most effective there is unless you'd require above 40mg/day methadone, in which case buprenorphine hits its "ceiling effect" and you'd need to use methadone. Actually, methadone is probably just as hard to kick as oxycodone, so ask your doctor what to do.
>
> I don't know enough about detox to give you an estimate, but it could be done as quickly as 6-7 days or over a much longer period of time. Buprenorphine is really an amazing drug.
Posted by Chairman_MAO on February 14, 2004, at 8:15:51
In reply to Re: Buprenorphine poopout? » Chairman_MAO, posted by Flipsactown on February 13, 2004, at 11:54:21
I knew two people dependent on heroin who detoxed in 6 days using buprenorphine. during and after the six days, they had no withdrawl symptoms. I also saw someone detoxed with methadone + clonidine in a hospital, and he was in PAIN the whole time (7 days). I'm not a doctor, so I really can't give you anything more detailed than that. But my opinion, based upon the fact that buprenorphine is only a partial mu agonist and my own observations, is that it probably has a mild withdrawl syndrome or none at all, depending upon the user.
Posted by bee happy on February 14, 2004, at 11:00:25
In reply to Re: Buprenorphine poopout? » Chairman_MAO, posted by Flipsactown on February 13, 2004, at 11:54:21
I think it depends on how much you are taking. I would think you might a few hours to a day of discomfort, but talk to your pain doctor. Here is a link to web site where you can read others experiences. Don't let the name scare you off. Misery is misery. We are all in this together. Good luck, Bee
http://www.heroin-detox.com/DetoxForum/default.asp
Posted by Flipsactown on February 14, 2004, at 11:08:40
In reply to Re: Buprenorphine poopout? » Flipsactown, posted by Chairman_MAO on February 14, 2004, at 8:15:51
Thanks for the info. I plan on stopping oxy as soon as I have a handle on my ADs which could take awhile as my present cocktail needs tweaking. Hopefully, the recently added lithium will be the magic tweak.
Flipsactown
> I knew two people dependent on heroin who detoxed in 6 days using buprenorphine. during and after the six days, they had no withdrawl symptoms. I also saw someone detoxed with methadone + clonidine in a hospital, and he was in PAIN the whole time (7 days). I'm not a doctor, so I really can't give you anything more detailed than that. But my opinion, based upon the fact that buprenorphine is only a partial mu agonist and my own observations, is that it probably has a mild withdrawl syndrome or none at all, depending upon the user.
Posted by Lindsay Rae on February 14, 2004, at 13:44:19
In reply to Buprenorphine poopout?, posted by bee happy on February 11, 2004, at 13:06:55
I would be surprised if coming back to the US for treatment with Bup would be beneficial for you. Buprenorphine, in the form of Subutex or Suboxone, has just recently been approved here for addiction therapy as an alternative to Methadone. I wasn't aware that it is used to treat depression, but the US has a long way to go before accepting opiate-based treatment for depression, although I agree 100% that some people DO need an opiate to treat their depression, due to lack of the brain's natural stores of opiates.
> I have been treated for depression with Buprenorphine (2 mgs four times daily)for almost two years. But in the past few months have noticed my concentration has deteriorated and am a bit concerned about memory as well. Some days it doesnt seem to be working at all, and I feel as if I'm just wandering in circles.This is so disappointing because it was such a life saver at first. Some of you may remember my earlier posts touting it. I really don't want to get involved with a cocktail situation but if that's what is necessary, I would. If any one else is taking buprenorphine for depression I would like to know if you have had poop out at some point, and if so what did you do? Add something for concentration? Start from scratch? Help! I especially miss reading. It's all I can do to get through a New Yorker article. My situation is compounded by living on a third world island where mental health is not a big priority. I may have to come back to the U.S. to sort this out. But if I had some feed back from you all and could share it with my Pdoc back home we could work it out long distance. I have a call into him but wanted to check with the board too. Thanks all. Bee
Posted by bee happy on February 14, 2004, at 17:59:25
In reply to Re: Buprenorphine poopout?, posted by Lindsay Rae on February 14, 2004, at 13:44:19
Lindsay Rae, Right you are about the long way to go before our doctors accecpt opiates as treatment for depression. I was so fortunate to find a therapist and Pdoc willing to explore alternative treatments. After almost a year of trials with assorted ssris we stumbled upon the Harvard study using Bupe for depression. It was so good for the first year+,and perhaps there's something else going on, (physically...am also hypo thiroid, etc)We have decided to try a jump start with strattera...which I know nothing about except it's the new improved non addictive (ha) form of Ritalin..used in adhd treatment. If that doesnt work I may try a break from the Bupe for a month and see if that will do it. I am nowhere near as depressed as I was when I first sought help so it is still working somewhat. It's scary though to feel yourself sinking back into the pit.
Posted by Lindsay Rae on February 14, 2004, at 20:19:10
In reply to Re: Buprenorphine poopout?, posted by bee happy on February 14, 2004, at 17:59:25
Do you think perhaps that you should go up a mg or so on the Bup? I think it's wonderful that your doctor was so open-minded. Perhaps if this treatment worked for you, another longer acting opiate would as well. The brain is so tricky; there is no real way to measure or calculate all the levels and synapses, so we just let ourselves be used as human test dummies to try to feel better. Your Pdoc could use you as a case study to prove the success of Bup for depression, confidentially of course, without identifying you, and it would be the start of breakthrough treatments!
It took me seven years to try an antidepressant because I feared the first few weeks that I might feel worse before feeling better. But oddly enough, I had no problem swallowing Vicodin with a swig of Stoli Vanilla and a marachino cherry chaser. I was a self-medicator, but I always feared the psychotropics!
Take Care,
Lindsay
"Lindsay Rae, Right you are about the long way to go before our doctors accecpt opiates as treatment for depression. I was so fortunate to find a therapist and Pdoc willing to explore alternative treatments. After almost a year of trials with assorted ssris we stumbled upon the Harvard study using Bupe for depression. It was so good for the first year+,and perhaps there's something else going on, (physically...am also hypo thiroid, etc)We have decided to try a jump start with strattera...which I know nothing about except it's the new improved non addictive (ha) form of Ritalin..used in adhd treatment. If that doesnt work I may try a break from the Bupe for a month and see if that will do it. I am nowhere near as depressed as I was when I first sought help so it is still working somewhat. It's scary though to feel yourself sinking back into the pit."
Posted by Lindsay Rae on February 15, 2004, at 13:59:49
In reply to Re: Buprenorphine poopout? » Chairman_MAO, posted by Flipsactown on February 13, 2004, at 11:54:21
Hey Flip,
I've been on Methadone maintenance for over two years, and I've done all the research there is on both Methadone and Buprenorphine (Suboxone). Here is a link that might help you decide. As far as withdrawal, Bup is a joke compared to Oxycontin. But with Bup or Methadone, you stay on a stable dose and then slowly taper, so you don't feel any discomfort. If I were you, I'd definately try the Suboxone first, since you can get that prescribed and not have to go through a clinic (unless your pain doc has no problem giving you Methadone). If the Bup doesn't work for you, start on 30 mg Methadone. You will be pleasantly surprised at how it helps your pain and keeps you level headed, unlike the ups and downs of Oxy. Try these links for helpful info:http://www.geocities.com/nephalim1327/Bupe-FAQ-Final-2.htm
http://members.boardhost.com/SPEAKMETHADONE/
Good Luck!
Lindsay
> But is it easier to kick than oxy? I experienced the withdrawal symptoms, accidently when I used more than prescribed and ran out and my pain doc was unavailable and ended up going to urgent care where they gave me just enough until my pain doc returned. I was out only a day and already had the DT's. I was both freezing and burning up at the same time, sweating, unable to sleep as my body could not keep still and I felt the need to jump right out of my body if I could. I hope buprenorphine is no where close to oxy's withdrawals. Any additional info will be appreciated. Thanks.
>
> Flipsactown
>
> > It's the most effective there is unless you'd require above 40mg/day methadone, in which case buprenorphine hits its "ceiling effect" and you'd need to use methadone. Actually, methadone is probably just as hard to kick as oxycodone, so ask your doctor what to do.
> >
> > I don't know enough about detox to give you an estimate, but it could be done as quickly as 6-7 days or over a much longer period of time. Buprenorphine is really an amazing drug.
>
>
Posted by flipsactown on February 15, 2004, at 14:18:03
In reply to Re: Buprenorphine poopout?, posted by Lindsay Rae on February 15, 2004, at 13:59:49
Hey Lindsay,
Thanks for the info. I will be doing some heavy duty researching on the sites you provided. As far as my pain doc is concerned, he wanted me on methadone in the first place saying that it is just as good or better than oxy for pain management. Actually, he would not prescribe oxy initially because you know, the bad publicity. He scripted me Oramorph which is the same as MSContin. Well anyway, I had a very bad reaction to the Oramorph where I had vertigo, vomiting and was bedridden. It was kind of like the DT's I had with Oxy. That is when he decided to go ahead with the oxy. I have been on it for nearly 2 years and I would really like to kick it. What are your thoughts on Methodone? It would be a painkiller and DT med for me at the same time.
Flipsactown
> Hey Flip,
> I've been on Methadone maintenance for over two years, and I've done all the research there is on both Methadone and Buprenorphine (Suboxone). Here is a link that might help you decide. As far as withdrawal, Bup is a joke compared to Oxycontin. But with Bup or Methadone, you stay on a stable dose and then slowly taper, so you don't feel any discomfort. If I were you, I'd definately try the Suboxone first, since you can get that prescribed and not have to go through a clinic (unless your pain doc has no problem giving you Methadone). If the Bup doesn't work for you, start on 30 mg Methadone. You will be pleasantly surprised at how it helps your pain and keeps you level headed, unlike the ups and downs of Oxy. Try these links for helpful info:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/nephalim1327/Bupe-FAQ-Final-2.htm
>
> http://members.boardhost.com/SPEAKMETHADONE/
>
> Good Luck!
> Lindsay
> > But is it easier to kick than oxy? I experienced the withdrawal symptoms, accidently when I used more than prescribed and ran out and my pain doc was unavailable and ended up going to urgent care where they gave me just enough until my pain doc returned. I was out only a day and already had the DT's. I was both freezing and burning up at the same time, sweating, unable to sleep as my body could not keep still and I felt the need to jump right out of my body if I could. I hope buprenorphine is no where close to oxy's withdrawals. Any additional info will be appreciated. Thanks.
> >
> > Flipsactown
> >
> > > It's the most effective there is unless you'd require above 40mg/day methadone, in which case buprenorphine hits its "ceiling effect" and you'd need to use methadone. Actually, methadone is probably just as hard to kick as oxycodone, so ask your doctor what to do.
> > >
> > > I don't know enough about detox to give you an estimate, but it could be done as quickly as 6-7 days or over a much longer period of time. Buprenorphine is really an amazing drug.
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by bee happy on February 15, 2004, at 19:19:10
In reply to Re: Buprenorphine poopout?, posted by Lindsay Rae on February 14, 2004, at 20:19:10
I too was a self medicator and vicodin was one of my drugs of choice...here in the third world where prescriptions are not required it was was possible to get 30mg codeine with none of that nasty asprin or tylenol to mess with your stomache. I have a question for you. When you say a longer acting opiate what do you mean?The only one I know of is methadone. And I see from another post that you have been on it for some time. So you mind my asking what you taking it for? I also gleaned from your post that you had some experience with Bupe. How do the two compare? I also have a wonderful GP who is very involved with hospice who has suggested I might try methadone. I guess it's all those withdrawal horror stories that keep me from considering it.And to answer your suggestion about going up a notch on the Bupe, I tried it and it did help somewhat, maybe I should try another bump...the pdoc suggested that too, but said if it didn't work I'd be sort of stuck at that dose.Any thoughts? If so I'd love to hear them. Bee
> Do you think perhaps that you should go up a mg or so on the Bup? I think it's wonderful that your doctor was so open-minded. Perhaps if this treatment worked for you, another longer acting opiate would as well. The brain is so tricky; there is no real way to measure or calculate all the levels and synapses, so we just let ourselves be used as human test dummies to try to feel better. Your Pdoc could use you as a case study to prove the success of Bup for depression, confidentially of course, without identifying you, and it would be the start of breakthrough treatments!
>
> It took me seven years to try an antidepressant because I feared the first few weeks that I might feel worse before feeling better. But oddly enough, I had no problem swallowing Vicodin with a swig of Stoli Vanilla and a marachino cherry chaser. I was a self-medicator, but I always feared the psychotropics!
>
> Take Care,
> Lindsay
>
>
> "Lindsay Rae, Right you are about the long way to go before our doctors accecpt opiates as treatment for depression. I was so fortunate to find a therapist and Pdoc willing to explore alternative treatments. After almost a year of trials with assorted ssris we stumbled upon the Harvard study using Bupe for depression. It was so good for the first year+,and perhaps there's something else going on, (physically...am also hypo thiroid, etc)We have decided to try a jump start with strattera...which I know nothing about except it's the new improved non addictive (ha) form of Ritalin..used in adhd treatment. If that doesnt work I may try a break from the Bupe for a month and see if that will do it. I am nowhere near as depressed as I was when I first sought help so it is still working somewhat. It's scary though to feel yourself sinking back into the pit."
>
>
Posted by bee happy on February 16, 2004, at 14:42:58
In reply to Re: Buprenorphine poopout?, posted by Lindsay Rae on February 14, 2004, at 13:44:19
Lindsay Rae... My last post was addressed to you...sorry for the confusion...Bee
This is the end of the thread.
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