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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by thunder on February 14, 2004, at 17:24:51
2 years ago, at age 48, my blood levels were slightly low. Are MDs now more open to the theory that low T can contribute to Dep?
Posted by Phil on February 14, 2004, at 23:58:17
In reply to Is testosterone more accepted now?, posted by thunder on February 14, 2004, at 17:24:51
I think so. I had mine checked a few years ago, at 48, and it was within the normal range. I was hoping it was real low and I would maybe be able to find a reason for my depression..no luck.
Have you had any thyroid testing done? That's a complicated test to read and many say to see an endo even if the test is normal according to your PCP.
Anyway, my pdoc didn't discourage me from the testosterone test at all.
Posted by rvanson on February 14, 2004, at 23:58:52
In reply to Is testosterone more accepted now?, posted by thunder on February 14, 2004, at 17:24:51
> 2 years ago, at age 48, my blood levels were slightly low. Are MDs now more open to the theory that low T can contribute to Dep?
In a word: No.
In the year 2004,
HRT for women: Yes.
HRT for Men: No.
Good luck finding a doc that will prescribe T, unless you are _WAY_ below the lower limit considered normal.
T is a Steroid and most docs have big problems Rxing Benzos or steriods, no matter how much they might be indicated in the proper treatment of Depression.
Posted by Phil on February 15, 2004, at 1:19:30
In reply to Re: Is testosterone more accepted now?, posted by rvanson on February 14, 2004, at 23:58:52
I disagree. I confess to not knowing how low you have to be to get testosterone but if you don't have enough, that's why it's there.
I live in Austin which is much different than many parts of the country and way different than across the pond.
See a psychopharmacologist. I have never had a problem with Klonopin which is a lifesaver and my family doc wouldn't hesitate to prescibe T if I didn't have enough. That is why it's there.
Your case is way different than an athlete taking crap steroids on advice of people at a gym, for instance.
Compare T to self administered steroids as you would Ritalin to methamphetamine. Compare Klonopin from a doc to eating handfuls of Quualudes in the 70's. I have never upped my dose or felt the need to with Klonopin. Stevie Nicks had problems with it but she also ran thru a kings ransom worth of coke daily. She's great but she's still in denial, blaming the drug, not the fact that she ate it like french fries. A good doc will never hesitate prescribing what's needed but there are tons of docs that enjoy watching people suffer instead of prescribing a benzo. Benzophobia rules the UK from what I've heard and read here.
If you have panic attacks and constant anxiety that nothing can touch, not prescribing a benzo is irresponsible(unless you are like Stevie Nicks).
Anyway, if you are just a tiny bit low on T, it won't help matters to take it and could hurt you. Good docs prescribe on medical necessity.
And yes, low T mimics depression almost to the T so, of course they'll prescibe it. If they won't, you are seeing the wrong doctor.
Posted by antitrust on February 15, 2004, at 13:58:25
In reply to Is testosterone more accepted now?, posted by thunder on February 14, 2004, at 17:24:51
5mg testosterone patch works, change daily
Posted by thunder on February 15, 2004, at 18:37:34
In reply to Re: Is testosterone more accepted now?, posted by antitrust on February 15, 2004, at 13:58:25
> 5mg testosterone patch works, change daily
Did you have problem getting MD to prescribe? and did your blood tests show low Testosterone levels?
Thanks
Posted by Phil on February 16, 2004, at 18:44:43
In reply to Re: Is testosterone more accepted now?, posted by thunder on February 15, 2004, at 18:38:17
Okay. If your T level is too low, not a tiny bit, you don't need testosterone. If a doc writes you a script and you're within normal range, you need to find a doctor that read his ethics. Testosterone should only be given if you truly need it. Otherwise, you are playing with fire. It isn't a magic potion and too much is not going to make you superman and may well indeed harm you.
If a doc says, well, you're in normal range but here, have some more, he's a pusher not a doctor.
It's exactly the same as fayeroe said about antibiotics. If everytime you scrape your elbow a doc gives antibiotics, he's not just harming you but contributing to antibiotic resistant diseases.
Posted by Festus on February 16, 2004, at 23:21:27
In reply to Re: Is testosterone more accepted now? » thunder, posted by Phil on February 16, 2004, at 18:44:43
I read the replies to Thunder,s post withear,s open.There were some very strong,but true statements made.I suppose,like any other Controlled Substance,there are Dr.,s that just won,t RX them unless the circumstances are extreme.I,m talkin bout docs that see a patient with a Kidney stone and are reluctant to give him 10 or 12 Darvocet for his pain(more like agony!)Test is a C-3 drug,so it carries the same ruling with these pitiful,cowardly excuses for physicians.Lord,why is it that every time I read or hear of these cases involving patients needing Class 2,3,or 4 meds,and the medical jerks that won,t Rx them to ease their suffering,I just get crazy with contempt and anger towards these....OK,I,m sorry,back to the Test,I recently got Test tested and was found to be WAY LOW!They measure it in a scale of 200 ng/dl to 1310 ng/dl,low to high,respectively.Mine was 79 ng/dl!!The doc made me get a second test and it was 167,which was still below the bottom of the scale.And,yes,I was started on Test replacement therapy after I got a digital Prostate exam and my PSA levels checked.Both were fine.I am currently without insurance,so i opted for the least costly method,the injections,which I give myself.The 10 ml ampule was only just over 100 bucks,and it has 2,000 mg. of Testosterone Cypionate,enough for 10 200 mg. shots.Before I began them,my symptoms were:loss of strength,loss of muscle mass,bodyfat retention uppage,no Libido,very poor erectile function,memory loss,anxiety,and,oh yes,Depression!After 4 shots,I can honestly say,it is working!It is also true that if you "mess around",taking Test when you don,t really need it,it can wreak havoc on your system,especially the Prostate.Festus
Posted by Kacy on February 18, 2004, at 10:28:26
In reply to Re: Is testosterone more accepted now?, posted by Festus on February 16, 2004, at 23:21:27
I saw this recently:
http://www.demko.com/m021213.htmDepression May Lower Sex Hormone Levels
Professor David J. Demko, PhD
AgeVenture News Service
…according to a report from the Center for the Advancement of Health. A team of eight medical doctors associated with the Max Planck Institute of Psychiatry in Munich has determined that sex hormones are secreted at different rates in men who are severely depressed than those who are not depressed.A major objective of the study was to analyze the functioning of the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal system in patients with major depression, the scientists said. The samples were analyzed for testosterone, gonadotropin (a hormone that stimulates growth of the gonads), cortisol (a major stress hormone), follicle stimulating hormone (which stimulates sperm production), and luteinizing hormone (which stimulates the production of testosterone).
"Our data suggest that men (age 22 - 85) who suffer from severe major depression have disturbance of gonadal function as reflected by decreased testosterone concentration," said Dr. Ulrich Schweiger, head of the study.
Comparison of men with depression and those without depression showed:* lower testosterone concentrations during daytime and significantly lower concentrations at night and across the 24-hour period.
* similar concentrations of follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) and luteinizing hormone in both groups, but the LH pulse was lower in depressed men.
* cortisol concentration was 68 percent higher in men with major depression than in the comparison group.
* negative relationship between cortisol and testosterone, that is, the higher the cortisol, the lower the testosterone levels.
The major implication of this study is that low testosterone may be one of several mechanisms in which severe depressive disorders impair sexual function and increase the risk of myocardial infarction and osteoporosis."Previous studies of sex hormone concentration in depressed individuals had yielded inconsistent and ambiguous results," said Schweiger. "Possibly because some patients in those studies were only mildly depressed."
Germany's chain of Max Planck Institutes, funded by the German federal and state governments, support intramural research in a broad range of scientific disciplines.
Posted by thunder on February 18, 2004, at 20:36:08
In reply to Here's a study/report on testosterone depression, posted by Kacy on February 18, 2004, at 10:28:26
Thanks so much for the link. Just today I had c spine x-rays for possible problem and will probably have Thoracic X rays soon. Have been on milk free diet for a long time. (Calcium from Tums). Now concerned about possible osteoporosis , since it is mentioned in article.
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