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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Francesco on January 24, 2004, at 13:36:35
I have been prescribed Parmodalin, an italian compound that mixes trifluoperazine and Parnate. It's the only MAOI available in my country, so I hope it will work. I have adhd-like syntoms, I have difficulty in reading and concentrating and my p-doc thinks I could also have some bipolar problem (rapid cycling).
I have read a lot of stories of wonderful successes with Maoi's but I would like to hear some other ;-)
Posted by cubbybear on January 25, 2004, at 23:44:21
In reply to new to maoi ... what to expect ?, posted by Francesco on January 24, 2004, at 13:36:35
> I have been prescribed Parmodalin, an italian compound that mixes trifluoperazine and Parnate. It's the only MAOI available in my country, so I hope it will work. I have adhd-like syntoms, I have difficulty in reading and concentrating and my p-doc thinks I could also have some bipolar problem (rapid cycling).
>
> I have read a lot of stories of wonderful successes with Maoi's but I would like to hear some other ;-)OK! I'll give you a little info and maybe you can give me some. . .I've been taking Parnate for 20 years for long-term major depression. I've had failures with 3 other ADs and believe that Parnate is the only AD that will work for me to counter the horrible symptoms of depression and anxiety that I get. I adhere to the diet and medication restrictions as best as possible. If I have to stop the Parnate then re-start it, I'll experience orthostatic hypotension, weight gain (which is unusual in other people), and craving for carbohydrates and sweets at the beginning. These side effects always wear off in time. But what I find pretty much permanent with Parnate, at least for me, is that it reduces the need for sleep, so I can get by easily on about 5-6 hours per night. I can't say enough in favor of this drug.
Now, you've got me very curious about Parmodalin. I've never heard of it. What is trifluroperazine? I might want to check it out on the web and I'm situated overseas, so maybe you can also provide a brand-name.
Good luck!
>
>
Posted by Francesco on January 26, 2004, at 4:32:31
In reply to Re: new to maoi ... what to expect ? » Francesco, posted by cubbybear on January 25, 2004, at 23:44:21
> OK! I'll give you a little info and maybe you can give me some. . .I've been taking Parnate for 20 years for long-term major depression. I've had failures with 3 other ADs and believe that Parnate is the only AD that will work for me to counter the horrible symptoms of depression and anxiety that I get. I adhere to the diet and medication restrictions as best as possible. If I have to stop the Parnate then re-start it, I'll experience orthostatic hypotension, weight gain (which is unusual in other people), and craving for carbohydrates and sweets at the beginning. These side effects always wear off in time. But what I find pretty much permanent with Parnate, at least for me, is that it reduces the need for sleep, so I can get by easily on about 5-6 hours per night. I can't say enough in favor of this drug.
>
> Now, you've got me very curious about Parmodalin. I've never heard of it. What is trifluroperazine? I might want to check it out on the web and I'm situated overseas, so maybe you can also provide a brand-name.Thanks for the info and the encouragement. Parmodalin is Parnate + trifloperazine (stelazine), which is an antipsychotic that at low doses acts like a benzo. In Parmodalin the ratio Parnate - triflouperazine is 10/1. I don't know if I can provide Parnate, in Italy it's not on the market, but my p-doc says that the antipsychotic at that dosage shouldn't be a deal. I wanted to ask you if it's true that you cannot use benzos with maois and which is your schedule. I'm very convinced about this new trial, because the only enthusiastic users of antidepressant I've read about were MAOIs users ! So, thanks again, you've been helpful.
Posted by Chairman_MAO on January 26, 2004, at 17:09:52
In reply to Re: new to maoi ... what to expect ? » Francesco » cubbybear, posted by Francesco on January 26, 2004, at 4:32:31
I wish I could tell you what to expect; I'm still trying to convince my doctor to prescribe Parnate. As for the Stelazine: it's a shame you can't get the Parnate without that. Assuming the usual dose of Parnate (20-30mg), you'd be taking a low dose of Stelazine, but a significant dose nonetheless. It might ameliorate some of the agitation that could occur with Parnate. It also might eliminate the mild euphoria you might otherwise feel. :(
Worse yet, if you take this for years, you could develop irreversible, disfiguring movement disorders. Odd (some might say 'inhumane') that you're compelled to take Stelazine like this. I doubt your government is as prudish as the US's in rationing out euphoria, but I could see (in the US) Stelazine being added to Parnate to make it all but impossible to abuse, much as noloxone is now added to buprenorphine. Consider:
Dependence on monoamine oxidase
inhibitors in high dose
by
Vartzopoulos D, Krull F
Universitats-Nervenklinik, Koln.
J Clin Psychiatry 1990 Oct; 51(10):426-9ABSTRACT
A 37-year-old woman with a personality disorder and chronic dysthymia developed a dependence on MAOIs. She ingested 440 mg tranylcypromine daily without any side-effects while taking no dietary precautions. The features of MAOI dependence and their resemblance to amphetamine dependence are discussed.
Best of luck to you with the Parnate!
Posted by Francesco on January 26, 2004, at 18:23:57
In reply to Re: new to maoi ... what to expect ?, posted by Chairman_MAO on January 26, 2004, at 17:09:52
> I wish I could tell you what to expect; I'm still trying to convince my doctor to prescribe Parnate. As for the Stelazine: it's a shame you can't get the Parnate without that.Yes it is. If Parnate works for my adhd syntoms I could ask my psychiatrist to import some Parnate for me from US. He's often there, I don't know if he will put on me on lithium for this request though ;-)
Assuming the usual dose of Parnate (20-30mg), you'd be taking a low dose of Stelazine, but a significant dose nonetheless. It might ameliorate some of the agitation that could occur with Parnate. It also might eliminate the mild euphoria you might otherwise feel. :(
My psychiatrist wants me to take a mood-stabilizer but he allowed me to take Parmodalin if I don't get manic syntoms. So, mild euphoria is something I may want to hidden ;-)
> Worse yet, if you take this for years, you could develop irreversible, disfiguring movement disorders. Odd (some might say 'inhumane') that you're compelled to take Stelazine like this.
I know about the risk of dyscinesia ... It seems more likely to occur in women and old people and the risk appears co-related with dosage. It seems also that the first syntom of future dyscinesia is a particular movement of the tongue ('like a worm'). I have not read enough about it but I think that it would be a problem only if I have to increase the dosage. I don’t know if I’ll take maois for life but I have some possibily also to get Nardil in the Vatican Pharmacy (I live in Rome and the Vatican State is in Rome ... they sell meds that are not on the italian market ... italians are crazy ;-) I don’t know anyway if Nardil could be useful for adhd as Parnate could be since it seems to be less stimulating ... you seem very well informed about maois so correct me if I’m wrong !
> I doubt your government is as prudish as the US's in rationing out euphoria, but I could see (in the US) Stelazine being added to Parnate to make it all but impossible to abuse, much as noloxone is now added to buprenorphine.
My government is more prudish that the US’s ! In Italy there aren’t stimulants on the market with the exception of Provigil ! No dopaminergic drugs at all with the exception of Wellbutrin that is commercialized like a med for the cessation of smoking. I tried it for adhd and I was getting crazy. I’m thinking about a ‘normal’ guy that goes to the doctor saying he wants to quit smoking and he gets a prescription for Zyban (Wellbutrin). It could be the the most allucinating experience of his life ;-) Moreover I smoked a lot when I was on Wellbutrin !
I don't (yet) know if the Stelazine eliminates the mild euphoria that Parnate can give but its presence in it suggests not to abuse of Parmodalin ;-)
> ABSTRACT
>
> A 37-year-old woman with a personality disorder and chronic dysthymia developed a dependence on MAOIs. She ingested 440 mg tranylcypromine daily without any side-effects while taking no dietary precautions. The features of MAOI dependence and their resemblance to amphetamine dependence are discussed.It seems cool ;-) Damned stelazine ! lol
> Best of luck to you with the Parnate!
Best of luck to you with your doctor ! Or just change it if you can ! You seem very well informed about MAOIs and if the meds you’re taking aren’t working you have the right in my opinion to try them at your risk. They are the only drugs that induce euphoria also in non depressed people, so, if depression is your problem I 'suppose' they’ll work ;-)
This is the end of the thread.
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